Criminal Law

dar100

Hi folks,

Just looking for some advice, I am thinking of studying law, and would like to practice criminal law.

I have an undergrad BA in an unrelated area, what would the best route be? I'm thing one of the PG dip conversion courses?

My problem is this, I have some criminal convictions myself, so was wondering if there is some ethical guidelines which would stop me from been able to practice in this field?

Also, is it possible to just study criminal, as oppossed to other areas, taxation etc etc?

thanks in advace for replying

Pro Hoc Vice

You have a few options to qualify check out http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Becoming-a-Solicitor-CMS/ to be a solicitor and http://www.kingsinns.ie/website/prospective_students/degree/degree.htm

You can not just study Crime you must study all the required subjects in Law Society or Kings Inns. To practice at criminal only will require as a solicitor getting an apprenticeship with a criminal practice and then either staying on or getting into another criminal practice or setting up your own after qualifying, setting up new practice will be difficult and also outside large urban centres not many criminal only practices could survive.

In relation to the bar you would need to Devil with a Criminal barrister and then hope and pray you get the briefs, it's luck, dedication, and hope.

Having a conviction could be a difficulty of course but it depends on type, how many and how long ago, you will have to declare any conviction anyway so best bet is to contact The Law Society and The Bar Council and ask based on your facts.

dar100

infosys wrote: »

You have a few options to qualify check out http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Becoming-a-Solicitor-CMS/ to be a solicitor and http://www.kingsinns.ie/website/prospective_students/degree/degree.htm

You can not just study Crime you must study all the required subjects in Law Society or Kings Inns. To practice at criminal only will require as a solicitor getting an apprenticeship with a criminal practice and then either staying on or getting into another criminal practice or setting up your own after qualifying, setting up new practice will be difficult and also outside large urban centres not many criminal only practices could survive.

In relation to the bar you would need to Devil with a Criminal barrister and then hope and pray you get the briefs, it's luck, dedication, and hope.

Having a conviction could be a difficulty of course but it depends on type, how many and how long ago, you will have to declare any conviction anyway so best bet is to contact The Law Society and The Bar Council and ask based on your facts.

Thanks infosys,

Good advice cheers

Bepolite

Do you want to practice? If so how? Do you want to wear a cape and cross examine or deal with the clients day-to-day?

Are you prepared to work for free/peanuts for years? Do your family commitments allow for this?

Would settle for studying, say, criminology and working in a related discipline e.g. research?

I don't wish to put you off, just give you some food for thought.

dar100

Bepolite wrote: »

Do you want to practice? If so how? Do you want to wear a cape and cross examine or deal with the clients day-to-day?

Are you prepared to work for free/peanuts for years? Do your family commitments allow for this?

Would settle for studying, say, criminology and working in a related discipline e.g. research?

I don't wish to put you off, just give you some food for thought.

Hi bepolite,

I already have a job, which is linked to my undergrad degree. So I wouldn't be willing to give this up, was thinking more along the lines of upskilling/training alongside my current commitments.

Criminolgy/research is not something that interests me, although my present job would involve working with individuals involved in criminality at some level.

I would like to practice in a court setting/trials etc, and working face to face with clients is also of interest.

Maybe I've missed the boat for this profession, and tbh, I do love my current work, just that I am looking to earn more do to financial matters

Bepolite

If you're looking to earn more stay away from law and criminal practice in particular. Even best case scenario you are going to start off on C. 25K a year. It's more likely you'll essentially be working for free (perhaps min wage with your Blackhall fees to pay).

As for doing a law degree for the craic I can't recommend it enough! Find a decent PT degree, work through it and see where it takes you. You can always start deviling in your 50/60s once the kids are gone and you've less commitments!

dar100

Bepolite wrote: »

If you're looking to earn more stay away from law and criminal practice in particular. Even best case scenario you are going to start off on C. 25K a year. It's more likely you'll essentially be working for free (perhaps min wage with your Blackhall fees to pay).

As for doing a law degree for the craic I can't recommend it enough! Find a decent PT degree, work through it and see where it takes you. You can always start deviling in your 50/60s once the kids are gone and you've less commitments!

Darn, Thats another idea out the window:D. I was also thinking medical degree, but it's a long road.

Do you practice law yourself Bepolite?? great name by the way

Bepolite

dar100 wrote: »

Darn, Thats another idea out the window:D. I was also thinking medical degree, but it's a long road.

Do you practice law yourself Bepolite?? great name by the way

No final year Law student with delusions of grandeur. I do some work with a couple of projects that has quite a bit of contact with junior barristers most of which can barely afford a Starbucks without resorting to lecturing oiks like me!

Law is as long as a medical degree between the degree, FE1s/KI Entrace exams and deviling, with similar hours and less pay! A law degree though isn't that taxing, is very interesting and generally taught by slightly bonkers barristers that are normally great fun.

The other option is to do the Diploma Course taught at the Kings Inns if you're in Dublin - it's only two years and you'll get the pleasure (dubious?) of David Langwallner teaching you Jurisprudence. Worth doing the course just for that IMHO.

Thanks the name is a reminder to me not to be a dick, it rarely works! :pac:

dar100

Sounds very interesting, maybe... the Kingsinn course may be an option, giving I'm Dublin, I'm still unsure.

Whats your plans for when you graduate? where do you see yourself?? So sounds like a long road regardless what route one takes. I'm sure your not a dick, stay polite:)

Bepolite

dar100 wrote: »

Sounds very interesting, maybe... the Kingsinn course may be an option, giving I'm Dublin, I'm still unsure.

Whats your plans for when you graduate? where do you see yourself?? So sounds like a long road regardless what route one takes. I'm sure your not a dick, stay polite:)

Plan was to go to the Inns (BL course to become a barrister) this year full time. Plans have changed now that we are looking for a house: Something to consider if you're a new barrister, along with little to no money is that even someone working in a call centre earning a bit more will qualify for a mortgage where as you (me!) wont, due to self employed status.

So it's a year out returning to my previous life in sales while we con a bank into lending us money, possibly spunk sprouts and then off to the Inns part time. Hopefully the wife will have realised her earning potential a bit more by then. We're both mid thirties and she's only started work 5 or so years ago - being ridiculously well qualified is not a money spinner either! If she has I can then go and devil (unpaid work).

Luckily during all of this I've built up a number of good contacts (something that pisses me off when people say the legal profession is closed. It is see below in reference to money but certainly not in how generous people are with their time!) - the issue is the uber master I have lined up could easily take Silk and then he's not able to take a devil. Luckily again I might get one of his devils.

Solicitor route doesn't allow you to feck about lecturing either as you'll be in the office until stupid o'clock. At least with a barrister I can inflict myself upon others attempting to gain enlightenment though drinking and occasionally reading part of a book or the odd head note.

If that sounds like a lot of if, buts and complications welcome to mature students and the legal profession! At least if you're a kid you don;t mind the hardships of living in digs and hopefully mummy and daddy are there with support but even they don't have it easy.

I hope that huge waffle is of some use to those seeking a career in a cape that doesn't involve wearing underpants over your trousers.

EDIT: Most of my friends (mature students) take the slightly easier path of becoming a solicitor. Do a degree, get a full-time job, take two years (or there abouts) getting the FE-1s build up contacts so you can get a paid training contract if you're very, very lucky you might end up working for a wage somewhere near to being on the dole while you do your PPC (training contract).

The third way is Legal Exec -> Solicitor (ideally with the same firm) but again it's not plain sailing and you'll do a fair share of photo coying, transcribing, fetching and carrying; not that I'm under the any delusions that a first year devil doesn't do this but you realistically could be looking at five years of that if you go in as a legal exec, even with a full law degree.

In short - Law degrees are great but have very little practical application, at least not one that will make you any money in the short to medium term. Yes there are some that make it and are minted, I suspect the proportion is much lower than many other professions. I know if I stayed doing what I was doing I could expect a job at 40 in the €60,000 - €120K category. Trouble was I'd have hanged myself out of boredom!