Bought used car DMF failed after only a week - warranty

johnnygman

Hi all I know this has been cover in part but just wanted some peoples opinion.
I bought a used Skoda Superb from a Dublin dealer, not Skoda, it's a UK import, I have done less than 200 miles since bought and literally within days of purchase the clutch release is now clunking a noticeable vibration. Took it to 2 local garages and both say 100% DMF Flywheel knackered. Has 3 month warranty on engine and gearbox, while also under inspection it has bad busions on left side despite me being told in perfect motoring order and fully serviced for 10k miles. Very disappointed as it seemed to be in perfect order and test drove it on two separate occasions. I am going to look for DMF and clutch on warranty and if not will look to return under good not fit for sale route if I am not satisfied with response. Has anyone had similar issue on buying a car and any outcome? It's a UK car full history they cleared it I've already taxed it and has 76k miles on it. 09 1.9tdi ex fleet car body is in good nick but this has taken shine off big time

Bpmull

Dmf and clutch are wear parts and are normally not covered by warranty. I don't know how it suddenly could get so bad if there was no vibration in the clutch when you bought the car a week ago. Any dmf I've heard of would normally gradually get bad ie start vibrating slightly and would them get worse over time.

sawdoubters

did it have a nct

the dealers should fix it

Odelay

sawdoubters wrote: »

did it have a nct

the dealers should fix it

What does an nct have to do with it??

johnnygman

Bpmull wrote: »

Dmf and clutch are wear parts and are normally not covered by warranty. I don't know how it suddenly could get so bad if there was no vibration in the clutch when you bought the car a week ago. Any dmf I've heard of would normally gradually get bad ie start vibrating slightly and would them get worse over time.

Hi there, with DMF it's driveable the major knocking seems to be coming from busion not big deal but was told DMF its already past point of needing repair, not recommended to keep driving incase of other damage it could potentially cause not what I'd call huge vibration but noticeable and seriously has gotten worse inside the week. I'm not a car expert, I did mention this to dealer at time and he said it was the rougher 1.9 tdi no concern, I'd not have made a huge fuss over this until went to get knocking checked and told DMF also major issue at play. Surely this is selling goods not fit for purpose I'd have thought? If major issue like this not covered I will name and shame them and also pursue it through other avenues if no return. This is not good enough to be screwing decent people with faulty goods. How can you sell an item as in full working order and serviced when it clearly needed major work?

johnnygman

Odelay wrote: »

What does an nct have to do with it??

Has one anyway but of little use...

bazz26

If you only bought the car a week ago then I would expect the dealer to replace the DMF and clutch. Depending on the dealer though you could have a battle on your hands.

johnnygman

Sitec wrote: »

What year is the Superb?

2009 76k miles full history

Stheno

Given you'd have paid a fair bit for it did you not think of spending a couple of hundred on getting it inspected by a mechanic?

johnnygman

bazz26 wrote: »

If you only bought the car a week ago then I would expect the dealer to replace the DMF and clutch. Depending on the dealer though you could have a battle on your hands.

That's what I'm worried about, in my lay opinion DMF being sold while clearly in state of disrepair is pure and simple con artist stuff, the dealer had to know this was an issue and still shafted me. I am raining tomorrow and will be calling to them Friday regardless of what I hear on phone. If try to pull as fast one I won't let them forget it. Not a wealthy individual. Just wanted a straight family car and they turned me off an Insignia saying the Superb is bullet proof etc, if has disclosed DMF issue I might have even still bought it if increased price a tad but what I'm seeing now is not a good first impression. I will allow them chance to turn it around and report back anyway...

johnnygman

Stheno wrote: »

Given you'd have paid a fair bit for it did you not think of spending a couple of hundred on getting it inspected by a mechanic?

Long story, I had trade in, disclosed every little thing on car and they were fine with it, unlike the dealer! Went to see a lot of cars over the weeks and not always possible to have someone there. Couple hundred quid is not easy found pal and although I'm no expert I've never been shafted in buying a car privately or otherwise In a long time and I've been through a fair amount. That said they may still be reasonable about it so I will let u know so I won't throw toys out just yet

andrew1300r

If you test drove the car & there was no issue before you bought then it seems logical that the dealer didn't know there an issue at that time either. If he had an idea or knew when buying the car first that it was developing a flywheel DPF issue then he is a stupid business man knowing all to well that it was going to come back & bite him in the arse. Apparently Insignias are giving allot of flywheel trouble also.

Stheno

johnnygman wrote: »

Long story, I had trade in, disclosed every little thing on car and they were fine with it, unlike the dealer! Went to see a lot of cars over the weeks and not always possible to have someone there. Couple hundred quid is not easy found pal and although I'm no expert I've never been shafted in buying a car privately or otherwise In a long time and I've been through a fair amount. That said they may still be reasonable about it so I will let u know so I won't throw toys out just yet

I'd have to say if I was spending money on buying a five year old car (I drive bangers) I'd prioritise getting it checked out before hand.

andrew1300r wrote: »

If you test drove the car & there was no issue before you bought then it seems logical that the dealer didn't know there an issue at that time either. If he had an idea or knew when buying the car first that it was developing a flywheel DPF issue then he is a stupid business man knowing all to well that it was going to come back & bite him in the arse. Apparently Insignias are giving allot of flywheel trouble also.

I'd tend to wonder if the dealer chose to accept there were suspension issues, having had lots myself, at this point I listen for any clunking etc when driving any car.

I think it's probably 50/50 here to be honest, the car was sold with an nct (wonder how fresh?), test driven twice if I have read the OP correctly and then this dmf issue/suspension issue crops up shortly after.

My OH once bought a car where the clutch failed four weeks after it being ncted and ended up replacing it himself.

If there is no evidence that there was an issue at the time, it's hard to see why the dealer (other than in good faith) should be obligated to replace the parts. They are consumables after all

Bpmull

Stheno wrote: »

I'd have to say if I was spending money on buying a five year old car (I drive bangers) I'd prioritise getting it checked out before hand.



I'd tend to wonder if the dealer chose to accept there were suspension issues, having had lots myself, at this point I listen for any clunking etc when driving any car.

I think it's probably 50/50 here to be honest, the car was sold with an nct (wonder how fresh?), test driven twice if I have read the OP correctly and then this dmf issue/suspension issue crops up shortly after.

My OH once bought a car where the clutch failed four weeks after it being ncted and ended up replacing it himself.

If there is no evidence that there was an issue at the time, it's hard to see why the dealer (other than in good faith) should be obligated to replace the parts. They are consumables after all

I'd agree with you on the clutch/ flywheel if there was no vibration in the clutch when you test drove it. Then the dealer probably didn't know. It's impossible to know the exact condition of a dmf without removing it and that in itself is a big job. The only tell tale sign of the dmf going is the vibration through the clutch. A very slight vibration in clutch shows it may be starting to go. It doesn't mean the car will be undrivable next week could take a year before it gets bad. Again it's impossible to know as none of us have driven the car.

As for the bushing well I think that's been blown out of proportion most wearable suspension joints are not that expensive to do. I changed several suspension components on my focus last year and it still only amount to a couple of hundredh euro and that was track rods, ball joints and front and rear bushings.

Stheno

Bpmull wrote: »

I'd agree with you on the clutch/ flywheel if there was no vibration in the clutch when you test drove it. Then the dealer probably didn't know. It's impossible to know the exact condition of a dmf without removing it and that in itself is a big job. The only tell tale sign of the dmf going is the vibration through the clutch. A very slight vibration in clutch shows it may be starting to go. It doesn't mean the car will be undrivable next week could take a year before it gets bad. Again it's impossible to know as none of us have driven the car.

As for the bushing well I think that's been blown out of proportion most wearable suspension joints are not that expensive to do. I changed several suspension components on my focus last year and it still only amount to a couple of hundredh euro and that was track rods, ball joints and front and rear bushings.

Agreed, on most cars it's a cheap fix on the bushings.

My last NCT failed on nearside bush on the back, 1. they are polybushes so not designed to fail, 2. alfa don't sell them seperate from the rod, so the "part" was 440e! You have to go and get spurious bushes which are better to avoid this!

The OHs car I was referring to didn't have a dmf, but over a week became cranky and then failed. Also he's a fierce heavy foot and when driving manuals, puts the clutch through a lot of pain compared to (obviously imo me )

He refers to me as a very solid and stable driver, despite me hitting speeds he would never dream of

johnnygman

The bushings are major cause of knocking for sure I think, strange how it happened so quick after testing but that's life. flywheel is definitely an issue, although as said it will take time before it goes so may be a sticky point on them doing work. Rang dealer this morning and was fair about it, said would have examined by mechanic and did not refuse to do work if it's flywheel issue, will know more after the weekend. Don't see how they can refuse to cover this under warranty if it's in state of disrepair immediately upon purchase. unless you are dealer biased this is surely selling goods not fit for purpose and warranty not worth paper it's printed on if not covered. One could say a gearbox failing Is wear and tear, what's point in warranty if dealer abuses it for own benefit and has no benefit to customer. Has offered courtesy car also so decent start in fairness. To be fair I know mileage is genuine, as checked mot reg number on U.K. gov website before bought and gives details of MOT mileage readings. Weekend will tell the story after they check out. If they pass test I am a loyal customer and said as much when I bought so they gain repeat customer as I expect to change car within early two years. I think loss of customer and damage to reputation is going to go well above cost of repair if they let me down here. Wilt you all know after weekend. Thanks for the (helpful) replies

Big C

5 year old fleet car, English, 76,000 miles ????????????????????????????

johnnygman

Big C wrote: »

5 year old fleet car, English, 76,000 miles ????????????????????????????

Maybe better to read the thread. As indicate mileage stacks up. That would not be unusual at all. Car registered 07/09' import nov 2013. Less than 4.5 years on road. Average around for year or better, the rest of the car does not indicate higher mileage and as I said the mot cert lists all the mileages on annual checks and they all are correct as they are online. I don't have any concerns here, interior exterior and all are very clean and in line. I have driven company and fleet cars for years and that kind of mileage was about average maybe a little below. Not all are bombed up and down country every day, can be bank workers and the like, not high mileage reps. No point in me trying to cause an issue where I don't see one. If fixes flywheel then I'm happy and will endorse them for it rather than the other way around.

Groundsource

johnnygman wrote: »

2009 76k miles full history

RTE or TV3 ran a program recently on UK imports. >90% of UK imports are clocked. An 09 with only 76K miles is very suspect. I think you may have bought a Pup. Don't believe any service history, these can be produced on a whim. Paper never refuses ink. Try and track previous UK owner or spend €25 and have a proper check carried out.

johnnygman

Groundsource wrote: »

RTE or TV3 ran a program recently on UK imports. >90% of UK imports are clocked. An 09 with only 76K miles is very suspect. I think you may have bought a Pup. Don't believe any service history, these can be produced on a whim. Paper never refuses ink. Try and track previous UK owner or spend €25 and have a proper check carried out.

I'm as sceptical as the next person, but I've done a car check UK and all seems in order, 1 owner, continental car hire U.K.. Mileage pulled from uk gov mot website myself and printed off, don't see how this could be scammed unless car clocked every time before it's due MOT and why would a large fleet hire company like this be acting in such a Manner. People are getting overboard, I know the flywheel tends to go at about 80k so even that has been well documented. What more can I do on this front, I actually believe the car is genuine and if they fix flywheel as I said its in top condition. I can't see how you can say a late reg 09 is suspect with 76miles you have clearly never been a fleet driver, I have and that was in or around my average for over 10 years of driving. You can't tar every car with same brush. Look as I said if they won't fix issue I will look to return car on other grounds but if repair I'm happy and confident the car will last many years of motoring and the garages I brought it to said as much from general condition. These are good cars if you can get a right one and hopefully after this issue it should be as things will go wrong or wear out and this is just unfortunate but still can be resolved.

Groundsource

johnnygman wrote: »

I'm as sceptical as the next person, but I've done a car check UK and all seems in order, 1 owner, continental car hire U.K.. Mileage pulled from uk gov mot website myself and printed off, don't see how this could be scammed unless car clocked every time before it's due MOT and why would a large fleet hire company like this be acting in such a Manner. People are getting overboard, I know the flywheel tends to go at about 80k so even that has been well documented. What more can I do on this front, I actually believe the car is genuine and if they fix flywheel as I said its in top condition. I can't see how you can say a late reg 09 is suspect with 76miles you have clearly never been a fleet driver, I have and that was in or around my average for over 10 years of driving. You can't tar every car with same brush. Look as I said if they won't fix issue I will look to return car on other grounds but if repair I'm happy and confident the car will last many years of motoring and the garages I brought it to said as much from general condition. These are good cars if you can get a right one and hopefully after this issue it should be as things will go wrong or wear out and this is just unfortunate but still can be resolved.

Seems like you done your checks and you are happy with them. IMO i don't believe an 09 fleet car has only 76K on it. Should be more like 176K. MOT's in the UK can be carried out by any back street garage and yes even fleet companies clock cars, believe me.

johnnygman

Groundsource wrote: »

Seems like you done your checks and you are happy with them. IMO i don't believe an 09 fleet car has only 76K on it. Should be more like 176K. MOT's in the UK can be carried out by any back street garage and yes even fleet companies clock cars, believe me.

Would interior trim and general condition not indicate this though, and that sounds very exaggerated to be honest but I appreciate your concern and I have noted. Have you ever hired a car from say a car hire company' in Uk or Ireland they never have that level of mileage on them after say getting a two year old car, and I hire regularly and as I said been through umpteen felt cars.
Certainly always more in line with what is on my current car. I don't know hoe I can check mileage shay further and as I said condition does not indicate hight. Dealer advised me they always buy rom continental as service history spot on. Surely they would want to avoid headaches like this one is going to give them?

mickdw

While there is no doubt that many fleet cars dont end up covering huge miles, typically the ones that end up being imported here are the cheaper higher mile versions. Considering the displayed mileage, the dmf, the bushes, the dealer who will let a car out with a failed dmf (of course he knew) and worn bushes knocking all over the shop, I would be of the opinion that he is not the type of dealer who would be buying the more expensive low mile models in the uk.

Get someone here with vagcom to check the ecu mileage recorded on the car.

Groundsource

johnnygman wrote: »

Would interior trim and general condition not indicate this though, and that sounds very exaggerated to be honest but I appreciate your concern and I have noted. Have you ever hired a car from say a car hire company' in Uk or Ireland they never have that level of mileage on them after say getting a two year old car, and I hire regularly and as I said been through umpteen felt cars.
Certainly always more in line with what is on my current car. I don't know hoe I can check mileage shay further and as I said condition does not indicate hight. Dealer advised me they always buy rom continental as service history spot on. Surely they would want to avoid headaches like this one is going to give them?

Most fleet/hire cars do alot of motorway miles and rarely is there more than 1 person in the car which makes the interior look good. Hope the garage does sort it for you and you can enjoy your new motor.:)

johnnygman

Groundsource wrote: »

Most fleet/hire cars do alot of motorway miles and rarely is there more than 1 person in the car which makes the interior look good. Hope the garage does sort it for you and you can enjoy your new motor.:)

Cheers hopes so... Gl

Groundsource

mickdw wrote: »

While there is no doubt that many fleet cars dont end up covering huge miles, typically the ones that end up being imported here are the cheaper higher mile versions. Considering the displayed mileage, the dmf, the bushes, the dealer who will let a car out with a failed dmf (of course he knew) and worn bushes knocking all over the shop, I would be of the opinion that he is not the type of dealer who would be buying the more expensive low mile models in the uk.

Get someone here with vagcom to check the ecu mileage recorded on the car.

This guy might help. No connection or have ever used him.
www.mileagecorrection.ie maybe he knows the dealer in question.

johnnygman

Groundsource wrote: »

Most fleet/hire cars do alot of motorway miles and rarely is there more than 1 person in the car which makes the interior look good. Hope the garage does sort it for you and you can enjoy your new motor.:)

I hear you on one main driver but things like steering,handbrake, gear lever, carpets, usually would have significant wear showing,rehabs I'm being too trusting but I do believe and given the basic checks I have done think the mileage is fairly accurate. I will do a bit more digging and see if anything turns up as you have me a bit more interested in this now. if I think the car was clocked now no way would I consider keeping it but if all continues to stack up here and get dmf repairs then I'd be happy to knock at least two good years motoring out of it. Easy to get buyers guilt of course in these situations I was actually very happy with car and still am but this issue has clearly taken a bit of shine off. I will keep you post anyway...could be a fuss about nothing or a lesson learned the hard way...

slimjimmc

Groundsource wrote: »

RTE or TV3 ran a program recently on UK imports. >90% of UK imports are clocked. An 09 with only 76K miles is very suspect. I think you may have bought a Pup. Don't believe any service history, these can be produced on a whim. Paper never refuses ink. Try and track previous UK owner or spend €25 and have a proper check carried out.

I believe yore'e referring to
http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/401/73588/1/Beware+Ireland last broadcast on 18th Dec 2013.
The first segment of the programme deals with clocking. Wind on to about 9 mins in and you'll hear Conor Faughnan estimated clocking rate for UK imports as "well in excess of 10%"

It further reports that a MotorCheck.ie survey of 6000 cars revealed that 20% were suspicious. Of those suspect cars 45% were Irish reg and 55% "linked" to the UK i.e. 55% of 20% suspicious cars were from the UK (The programme doesn't state how many of those 6000 cars were UK imports). That is about 10% overall and tallies nicely with what C.F. quoted.

It's high but it's not all that far off Irish figures and no where near exaggerated as over 90%. Caution should be applied no matter where the car comes from.

johnnygman

slimjimmc wrote: »

I believe yore'e referring to
http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/401/73588/1/Beware+Ireland last broadcast on 18th Dec 2013.
The first segment of the programme deals with clocking. Wind on to about 9 mins in and you'll hear Conor Faughnan estimated clocking rate for UK imports as "well in excess of 10%"

It further reports that a MotorCheck.ie survey of 6000 cars revealed that 20% were suspicious. Of those suspect cars 45% were Irish reg and 55% "linked" to the UK i.e. 55% of 20% suspicious cars were from the UK (The programme doesn't state how many of those 6000 cars were UK imports). That is about 10% overall and tallies nicely with what C.F. quoted.

It's high but it's not all that far off Irish figures and no where near exaggerated as over 90%. Caution should be applied no matter where the car comes from.

I thought people saying 90% of cars from UK clocked sounded way over the top and exaggerated, in general you get better spec cars for lesser money driven on better roads, that said I have an issue here but if it's resolved by the dealer I think I have a good car at a much better price than could get here. See how it goes over weekend.

_lietome_

This post has been deleted.

johnnygman

_lietome_ wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thank you for this, very good information! and much appreciated.

I have left car with them and been given courtesy car, I overheard him saying to his colleague that we will def have to change(DMF)it but did not admit this to me. I tackled him on bushings that are clearly in need of replacement in near side but he said it would not have passed NCT if they were faulty. I will give him the week to right the wrongs with the car or will be pursuing refund as I think they have abused position and falsely claimed car in perfect condition and fully serviced when clearly it isn't. Will update when more to add.

walus

johnnygman wrote: »

Thank you for this, very good information! and much appreciated.

I have left car with them and been given courtesy car, I overheard him saying to his colleague that we will def have to change(DMF)it but did not admit this to me. I tackled him on bushings that are clearly in need of replacement in near side but he said it would not have passed NCT if they were faulty. I will give him the week to right the wrongs with the car or will be pursuing refund as I think they have abused position and falsely claimed car in perfect condition and fully serviced when clearly it isn't. Will update when more to add.

Insist on getting the warranty on the new DMF/clutch from the dealer. The last thing you want is a poor workmanship and you will experience problems with DMF/gearbox again.
lietom is right the car was not fit for purpose and you have the right as a customer to return such goods and get a full refund. If there is any doubt as to whether this car is genuine or not you should follow this path of dealing with the dealer.

johnnygman

walus wrote: »

Insist on getting the warranty on the new DMF/clutch from the dealer. The last thing you want is a poor workmanship and you will experience problems with DMF/gearbox again.
lietom is right the car was not fit for purpose and you have the right as a customer to return such goods and get a full refund. If there is any doubt as to whether this car is genuine or not you should follow this path of dealing with the dealer.

Brutal customer service so far, here's the latest. Was given an 06 focus as courtesy car with serious turbo issue! sounds like a air craft carrier taking off on Monday, total embarrassment of a car with the noise of it despite being promised an Audi A6. Now Thursday eve, rang to see if work carried out, told not sure, asked why? Dealer said not spoken to garage. I outlined my need for car and inconvenience said I am in Dublin tomorrow and can they have car ready. Very Blaise about it. Dealer actually had cheek to say to me that car I traded in had faulty window regulator which it did not and tried to make me feel bad, I lost the head and said if did not want my car to give me may old one back and refund me. He said yea after you do 2k miles you want to swap. I have taxed car €390 and done 432m I said and NCT mileage proves this, I mentioned consumer rights and not going to let this drop. refused me swap and said will sort car out and basically hung up. I'm close to going to next level, will be ringing tomorrow and asking for owner of company if there is a reputable person in there. Sorry for grammar typing on phone and it's messy. Hard to believer his, in my work if mess up get my marching orders but these people are a law unto themselves. Sold a car with a failed DMF and they to turn it around on me about a window regulator, which was not faulty I assure you folks. I did not offer a warranty and if I did I would honor it. Will update ongoing and name and shame if comes to it.

mickdw

Id be certainly digging deeper into the history of this car. They seem like the kind of outfit that would happily retail clocked stuff.
Absolute cowboys. I mean, are they fixing the thing or not.

johnnygman

Had a call this morning, said they will repair clutch and flywheel this morning, car ready in the next day. Dealer sort of half heatedly apologised for his attitude yesterday, but again went back to issue over window regulator on my trade in. How petty, surely if he was putting car straight on four court would at least ensure all was in order. From what I have experienced so far, they do not come across in any way professional. I have obtained tel number for ex car owner fleet hire company and ringing today to see if will give me any history on car and verify mileage etc as per the MOT Certs. Will update...

walus

First of all they did not sell you a quality car and I'd be seriously concerned about the repair they are to conduct on the car and quality of the parts used. Make sure you get a warranty on the job in writing. Secondly if for any other reason you are not happy with the car and the dealer - demand your money back. You are entitled to it.

mickdw

walus wrote: »

First of all they did not sell you a quality car and I'd be seriously concerned about the repair they are to conduct on the car and quality of the parts used. Make sure you get a warranty on the job in writing. Secondly if for any other reason you are not happy with the car and the dealer - demand your money back. You are entitled to it.

You are only entitled to original warranty cover and if the new flywheel was to fail outside of that period it would be your problem.
I think it is quite likely that they would fit a used flywheel if they could get their hands on one.

guil

Correct me if I'm wrong but under the SoGa don't you have to give the seller the chance to repair anything that's faulty upto 3 times before you can request a refund? I know there's probably certain situations where you could demand a refund but in general if there's just something wrong with a car.

johnnygman

guil wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but under the SoGa don't you have to give the seller the chance to repair anything that's faulty upto 3 times before you can request a refund? I know there's probably certain situations where you could demand a refund but in general if there's just something wrong with a car.

I will request the invoice from garage doing work, will also look for warranty on job, the car seems straight enough bar this issue. If it is done and done right it think the car will do me a good turn but it's quite an if. I'll report back Monday, either way I'm going through him for a shortcut after way he spoke to me the other night. I'm a quiet person but don't expect or take crap like this lying down.

slimjimmc

guil wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but under the SoGa don't you have to give the seller the chance to repair anything that's faulty upto 3 times before you can request a refund? I know there's probably certain situations where you could demand a refund but in general if there's just something wrong with a car.

No. They have 1 chance to repair the defect and that repair must be permanent. You are not required to allow them any further retries, you can if you so wish, but you don't have to. The 3 attempts is a tactic commonly used by mobile phone sellers to dissuade customers from looking for refunds or replacements after the first repair fails but has no basis in consumer law.

johnnygman

Latest - dealer replaced DMF and clutch under warranty, feels like new, noise gone, clutch and gear change very smooth. Have old parts as proof and invoice. Gave him a dressing down over whole thing and over his attitude. He knew he was in wrong in fairness and did not charge me for clutch which I would have paid for if pushed. Very happy with car on trip down and should be a good reliable bus now which is all I want. Bit of messing about but he came through In the end so fair play.

mickdw

Good result so in the end.