advice needed

colin32

hey all,

looking for some advice from you seasoned runners.

i'm doing the great north run in September but have never done a half marathon before. the furthest I've done are 10km races/runs.

i'm currently running 5-6mile of a weekend in and around 8-8.15mins per mile, which i'm pleased with, as i'm not built for running

would you advise to do a half marathon around june/early july time to gauge how the training is going or just stick to the 10kms races/runs and then go for long runs of a weekend?

thanks

Clearlier

Really there's a whole pile of information we need to know to give you good advice so I'll stick a few questions first and then give you some broad outlines.

What are your goals? How much time are you willing to put into it? Are you just running once a week at the moment or are you running during the week as well? What's your fitness background? What are your PB's at the moment and how does your fitness compare to it?

A few principles (I'm assuming that you're relatively new to running).

Don't worry about pace on your long run - just focus on time on your feet. Add 5 mins each week and in 3 months time you'll be running for an hour longer than you are now.

Take an easier week every so often, some say once every 3 weeks, some say 4, others only do it every 6 weeks. It depends on how much the training is taking out of you.

Many small runs beats few long ones (but a long run once a week is a good idea).

Slowly increase your training load. N.B. You need to take into account intensity as well as time/miles when assessing your training load.

Vary your paces. Long runs (for the moment) are almost entirely about time on your feet. Depending on your background you may benefit from short intervals and/or long intervals.

Tempo runs are good. Stazza (who has a log in the logs section) is outlining some interesting variations on how to do it but the basic point is that you want to spend about 20 minutes running at a pace that would allow you to get a few words out but too fast to talk comfortably. Given where you are 20 mins non-stop would be good for you. Add 1 - 2 mins per week.

Know yourself - if you're somebody that needs to be held back because you push too hard all the time bear that in mind and for something like the tempo runs back off a little and be aware that you'll get 95% of the benefits from running a little too slowly but very little benefit if you run them a little too fast.

Do some kind of core body strengthening.

If you're sitting for most of the day learn some routines for keeping your hips mobile.

Hope this helps a little and happy to clarify anything or to make it a bit more specific to you if you want to expand on the questions I asked at the start.

P.S. It would be worth your while looking up a schedule for a half marathon. I can't really recommend one without knowing more about your current level of fitness and sporting background. The basic principle is to find one that starts out at a level you can manage but isn't too easy.

colin32

Thanks for getting back to me. I've answered your questions as best as I could

Clearlier wrote: »

Really there's a whole pile of information we need to know to give you good advice so I'll stick a few questions first and then give you some broad outlines.

What are your goals? My aims are to do the great north run in a reasonable time. At the moment i'd 2hrs but would like to be under that. After that i'd be looking at a full marathon early next year

How much time are you willing to put into it? my long term aim is a full marathon but don't want to get to ahead of myself

Are you just running once a week at the moment or are you running during the week as well? I'm either running or at the gym on a treadmill/cross trainer 4 times a week

What's your fitness background? I've played football (soccer) since I was 12, so always been in reasonable shape. I've now packed that in (due to age - 37) i'm looking at running to keep myself fit. although I like to set myself goals to give me something to aim for

What are your PB's at the moment and how does your fitness compare to it? I did the raheny 5 mile last month in 41.01 & 10km in phoenix park last October in 52.09. I have another 10km in phoenix park in 3 weeks time, which i'd be hoping for around 50-51 minutes

A few principles (I'm assuming that you're relatively new to running).

Don't worry about pace on your long run - just focus on time on your feet. Add 5 mins each week and in 3 months time you'll be running for an hour longer than you are now.

Take an easier week every so often, some say once every 3 weeks, some say 4, others only do it every 6 weeks. It depends on how much the training is taking out of you.

Many small runs beats few long ones (but a long run once a week is a good idea).

Slowly increase your training load. N.B. You need to take into account intensity as well as time/miles when assessing your training load.

Vary your paces. Long runs (for the moment) are almost entirely about time on your feet. Depending on your background you may benefit from short intervals and/or long intervals.

Tempo runs are good. Stazza (who has a log in the logs section) is outlining some interesting variations on how to do it but the basic point is that you want to spend about 20 minutes running at a pace that would allow you to get a few words out but too fast to talk comfortably. Given where you are 20 mins non-stop would be good for you. Add 1 - 2 mins per week.

Know yourself - if you're somebody that needs to be held back because you push too hard all the time bear that in mind and for something like the tempo runs back off a little and be aware that you'll get 95% of the benefits from running a little too slowly but very little benefit if you run them a little too fast.

Do some kind of core body strengthening.

If you're sitting for most of the day learn some routines for keeping your hips mobile.

Hope this helps a little and happy to clarify anything or to make it a bit more specific to you if you want to expand on the questions I asked at the start.

P.S. It would be worth your while looking up a schedule for a half marathon. I can't really recommend one without knowing more about your current level of fitness and sporting background. The basic principle is to find one that starts out at a level you can manage but isn't too easy.

Clearlier

colin32 wrote: »

Thanks for getting back to me. I've answered your questions as best as I could

4 times a week is good. On average how many miles do you think that you're running/how much time are you running for on each of those runs?

If you've played football for 25 years then most likely your weakness will be endurance relative to speed so for the moment your primary focus should be on that.

Slow down your weekend run. For comparison purposes I was doing around 8:45 - 9mm on a hilly off road route for my long run when I ran 1:35 for a half. For the moment don't worry about how far you're going but start extending the length of time that you run for. So you're probably running for about 45 mins at the moment. Make that 50 this weekend, 55 the next and so on.

One of the mid-week runs should be a tempo run. To expand a little on what I said before. Start off slowly and build up your pace so that after about 10 mins you're running at an effort where you can get a few words out but you wouldn't want to have a conversation. Hold that for 20 mins and finish with a jog for 5 mins to cool down. If you can't hold 20 mins don't worry, just do what you can and steadily increase the amount of time you do it for. 2 mins extra per week should be sustainable.

For the other two runs I'd be looking at turning one of them into a medium long run to build endurance so very similar to the weekend just a bit smaller in terms of the time and the 4th one just a shorter easier run. I can't tell you exactly where to start at because I don't know where you are at the moment.

Now, go buy the book 'Advanced Marathoning' by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Daniels. Read it from cover to cover. It explains many of the different types of runs and the purpose behind them. It also has some core work plans in the middle which you should do if you haven't got anything else and at the back there are a series of schedules for running a marathon.

After 10 weeks of the above training you should be ready to take on the 18 week up to 55 mile marathon plan. IIRC it starts at 33 miles in a week running 4 days a week. Monitor your progress and plan your progress so that the first few weeks of the plan can be moved into seamlessly.

So, your first thought here is probably 'Woah - I'm only doing a half'. That's true however you expect to be running for about 2 hours which is more or less how long it takes elite runners to finish a marathon. Your training plan needs to have you prepared to run for 2 hours at a fair effort.

You can adjust the schedule and perhaps ramp down the long run if you like but following that plan will prepare you well for the Great North run and set you up nicely to run a marathon the following spring. You could choose to do the same plan again for your marathon, ramp up to the next plan or somewhere in between the two.

colin32

i'm doing between 5 to 6 miles on a run at present, all around the same time of 8-8.15mins a mile. I can't get it below the 8 minute mark

BananaR

Clearlier wrote: »

Now, go buy the book 'Advanced Marathoning' by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Daniels.

Just wondering what makes the above a stand out book in your opinion?
Am considering running 1st marathon this year - I suppose, the reason I ask is the title wouldn't necessarily be one a 1st timer would gravitate towards.

Thanks

Clearlier

colin32 wrote: »

i'm doing between 5 to 6 miles on a run at present, all around the same time of 8-8.15mins a mile. I can't get it below the 8 minute mark

Don't try to get it below the 8 min mark! Focus on effort for the tempo runs and time on your feet for the long runs. You'll probably see changes about every 6 weeks.

If you're already running about 20 miles a week you'll be well able to get ready for the schedule I mentioned.

Clearlier

BananaR wrote: »

Just wondering what makes the above a stand out book in your opinion?
Am considering running 1st marathon this year - I suppose, the reason I ask is the title wouldn't necessarily be one a 1st timer would gravitate towards.

Thanks

I'm looking at Colin's football background where training and playing would have been largely around short sharp stuff. His weakness is going to be endurance. The plan at the back of this book is very strong on developing endurance IMO and the basic plan starting at 33mpw isn't ridiculously tough. The one concern I had was in respect of whether 33mpw might be too ambitious a target in 10 weeks time but if he's already doing 20+ each week it's eminently achievable.

I also think that the book is a good read for someone starting out in running. It's accessible and it gives a good basic education in training which he'll be able to refer back to indefinitely. The day by day schedules in the back are a useful bonus for inexperienced runners (and plenty of experienced ones too).