Am I mad. Apprentice with a degree.

Swirly Whirly

Hello all,

Could do with picking a few minds here.

I'm 23, I'm a graduate with a honours science degree, would have had a masters only that I had to drop out due to not being able to afford the tuition fees. Stuck in a rut at the minute; I've no job and can't honestly find one. I'm not exactly picky, I've just not had much luck. I've had a few interviews but no luck at all.

Now you can see where this is going, I've been told of a large electrical contractor looking for apprentice electricians. It's not something I wouldn't mind doing; my grandad was a sparks in the ESB and dad works in the process instrumentation area. Always liked any electrical end of things I studied, even going back to LC physics. So, I've a rough idea of what it's about (probably doing donkey work for the first while).

Am I completely and utterly nuts? I'd like to do it but I'm kinda looking for a second opinion.

mozil

As the saying goes: do whatever makes you happy...... butttt

As I'm sure you are very well aware of we are in a very challenging climate right now, the biggest fear right now for anyone staring a trade right now is simply getting through all 7 phases without loosing their job
on top of this Apprentices are now going to be faced with college contributions while attending their "off the job" phases which could total over a grand a year. It remains to be seen who will pick this up but if I was an apprentice working for a small outfit I think I could take a wild guess...

If I were you I would be looking into the instrumentation route though

2011

Swirly Whirly wrote: »

I'm 23, I'm a graduate with a honours science degree

What is the degree in?
Is the course accredited by Engineer's Ireland?
Unfortunately there are a large number of courses out there that are great for providing employment for lecturers, but little else.

From what I see employers are actively looking for experienced electrical engineers, with at least 5 years experience.
As I am sure you know the problem is getting the experience.
Some of the more enthusiastic will work for little or no money to get their foot in the door.
Have you tried this approach?
I recently met an engineer that has just landed himself a staff position with an excellent company following his participation in a JobBridge scheme.

Remember, if you do not use your degree within a few years of graduation you may as well not have done it.

would have had a masters only that I had to drop out due to not being able to afford the tuition fees.

Don't worry.
Most employers would rather employ an experienced engineer with just a primary than an inexperienced graduate with a masters.

I've been told of a large electrical contractor looking for apprentice electricians. It's not something I wouldn't mind doing

The funny thing is that there is an ever increasing number of electricians doing engineering degrees.
Why?
Mainly because there is not a lot of work for electricians in Ireland.
Are you aware of risks of pursuing this line of work?

my grandad was a sparks in the ESB and dad works in the process instrumentation area

What are their opinions? They know you best.

So, I've a rough idea of what it's about (probably doing donkey work for the first while).

...or in some cases it is just donkey work forever.
Sometimes this is what happens.
I know many qualified electricians that never touch a cable.
They just do "metalwork"- Steel conduit, tray , trunking and Unistrut brackets.
They can do nothing else, are afraid to work for any other electrical contractor and have no fault finding skills.
They are kind of trapped now.

Am I completely and utterly nuts?

Whatever floats your boat.

What type of work does this company do?
Some electrical work can get very boring, monkey see, monkey do kind of stuff.
The type of person that has a degree may get bred more easily if the work is not mentally challenging, which can be the case with some companies.
What are your chances of promotion/working your way up the ladder within this company?

I am just speaking from my own experiences, others may disagree.
I worked on my tools for a long time, apprentice, electrician, instrumentation technician, foreman etc...
It was great for the first 10 years, I worked on large interesting projects in Ireland and abroad.
But eventually I got bored with it, got out and never looked back.

I don't regret serving my time and working as an electrician, but it was different times.
Back then the money was much better and there were plenty of opportunities for industrial electricians with the type of experience that I was getting.

maxamillius

Out Of interest 2011 what line are you pursuing now?

cast_iron

What's your motive for wanting to start an apprenticeship?
Money? Boredom due to no job? Career prospects?

I think this is the first question that you need to answer, then evaluate if becoming a sparks will fulfil that reason.

2011

maxamillius wrote: »

Out Of interest 2011 what line are you pursuing now?

Design work, mainly instrumentation in the pharmaceutical industry.

Swirly Whirly

2011 wrote: »

What is the degree in?
Is the course accredited by Engineer's Ireland?
Unfortunately there are a large number of courses out there that are great for providing employment for lecturers, but little else.

I can only wish that it was a Engineering Degree. I slipped up on my Maths on my LC and never made the grade. I a BSc in Geology. It's not a very good one grade wise, hence why I was having trouble picking up work in the area (most of it is postgraduate work and you need either a MSc or a PHd) and it's an area with an incredibly narrow market for job opportunities, mostly for the well qualified.

So in short, I'm qualified in something not incredibly useful or employable. None of my class are working in an area remotely related to their degree.

2011 wrote: »

From what I see employers are actively looking for experienced electrical engineers, with at least 5 years experience.
As I am sure you know the problem is getting the experience.
Some of the more enthusiastic will work for little or no money to get their foot in the door.
Have you tried this approach?
I recently met an engineer that has just landed himself a staff position with an excellent company following his participation in a JobBridge scheme.

Remember, if you do not use your degree within a few years of graduation you may as well not have done it.

Well it's a BSc, and as it is, it's not a very useful degree at all. Only have it for the sake of having it.

2011 wrote: »

What are their opinions? They know you best.

The former would probably run me out of the house for considering it, he pushed me towards engineering, he was a great electrician and I always got the impression that he never got the recognition for his work as he was always junior to the engineer, even though most of the time he was doing the engineers work.

The latter doesn't really care too much what I do. Kinda useless asking.

2011 wrote: »

...or in some cases it is just donkey work forever.
Sometimes this is what happens.
I know many qualified electricians that never touch a cable.
They just do "metalwork"- Steel conduit, tray , trunking and Unistrut brackets.
They can do nothing else, are afraid to work for any other electrical contractor and have no fault finding skills.
They are kind of trapped now.

I'm a logical/abstract thinker, I quite like problem solving, but is there any jobs that require that sort of thought? I do like the idea of it.

But, I'm stone broke with no hope of a job opportunity with my degree, so I cannot be choosy. I got the chance of college, didn't work out so I've got to make the best of it.

2011 wrote: »

What type of work does this company do?
Some electrical work can get very boring, monkey see, monkey do kind of stuff.
The type of person that has a degree may get bred more easily if the work is not mentally challenging, which can be the case with some companies.
What are your chances of promotion/working your way up the ladder within this company?

It's <Mod snip: with a large well known electrical contrator>. Frankly, I don't know much about the place other than I was told to look there. They seem to be focused on the Industrial end of things, which I'd say is a bit more challenging than wiring up your standard residential setup. I don't know of the long term progression within the company.

I tried applying to Lotus Automation for their process instrumentation apprentice a while back but as their was 800 odd applicants, I'm not surprised I didn't get it.


Thanks for all the useful responses folks, food for thought.

2011

Swirly Whirly wrote: »

I can only wish that it was a Engineering Degree.

I think that many of us have no idea what the hell we want to do when we left school. I left school and became a social worker/ outdoor persuits instructor for a few years

I always got the impression that he never got the recognition for his work as he was always junior to the engineer, even though most of the time he was doing the engineers work.

I know that feeling

I'm a logical/abstract thinker, I quite like problem solving, but is there any jobs that require that sort of thought?

Yes, some but not that many.
I found instrumentation to be more interesting and challenging.

But, I'm stone broke with no hope of a job opportunity with my degree, so I cannot be choosy. I got the chance of college, didn't work out so I've got to make the best of it.

I was in a similar position.

<Mod snip: with a large well known electrical contrator>. Frankly, I don't know much about the place other than I was told to look there.

I served my time with them, they were a very different company back then.
I was with them for about 7 years.
They have quite a bit of work on at the moment.

They seem to be focused on the Industrial end of things, which I'd say is a bit more challenging than wiring up your standard residential setup. I don't know of the long term progression within the company.

Many of their senior people started off as electricians when I was with them. I don't know how it is now.

I tried applying to Lotus Automation for their process instrumentation apprentice

This would appeal to me much more.
PM me your number and I will give you a buzz.

bassey

Don't know how much of this I can say but I'll try to tow the line.

I started my apprenticeship with the ESB in 2009 straight after my leaving cert.

After two years of the apprenticeship I left it to do an ordinary degree in engineering (sponsored by the ESB) hated that, so dropped out and enquired about resuming my apprenticeship with the ESB, no chance.

Got taken on by <Mod snip: with a large well known electrical contrator> last September, they do seem to be taking on a lot of apprentices and sparks, considering I got a job with very little industrial experience.

Since I've been with <Mod snip: a large well known electrical contrator> I've learned a fair bit, probably don't get to do as much interesting stuff as I'd like but it's good experience I reckon, and in all my time there I've been treated very fairly.

Can't say I regret starting my apprenticeship, as I found out through the years I absolutely detest being in college.

2011

bassey wrote: »

Since I've been with <Mod snip: a large well known electrical contrator> I've learned a fair bit, probably don't get to do as much interesting stuff as I'd like but it's good experience I reckon, and in all my time there I've been treated very fairly.

Can't say I regret starting my apprenticeship, as I found out through the years I absolutely detest being in college.

Good to get an alternative view.
It seems that you made the correct decision.
Best of luck with it.
It is still my favorite trade

I mistakenly assumed that the OP had completed a degree in an electrically related area, so my advice was based on this.
A BSc in Geology is not that relevant to anyone that wants to pursue a career in the electrical industry.

HoggyRS

I know a lad who did the same degree as you OP and is living a life and pulling in a wage in Australia I could only dream of. Went into a 6 figure salary after only a few months working with a mining company, fresh outta college.

I've a level 8 degree myself (history and politics). Finished the degree 2 years ago and started an apprenticeship 18months ago and its grand. But working with a large contractor does tend to be metalwork as someone said, in fact ud be extremely lucky to be doing anything else.

JP838557

Big difference between the esb n an electrical contractor .
The trade is decent work compared to other trades, no need to do any research because fas runs through it all again and it's only basics physics in the end that you will rarely use during your apprenticeship .
Be prepared for lots of cable pulling and steel conduit

irishmover

Do you enjoy Geology? As HoggyRS mentioned there's a reasonable amount of work going on out here in Australia so you should be able to find work in that field. Worked with a number of geologists myself.

You'd need to get a visa though. Easiest option is WHV and head out here attempting to get sponsorship but it's a bit risky and you need money to start off.

Try seek.com.au for geologist jobs and start applying. You might get lucky. I got my first Australian job from Ireland. Never been on a WHV and a PR now at 25.

Can't comment on electrician in Ireland.

Noddynaki

I'm a qualified electrical engineer with a Level 8 Honors degree and I'm currently completing an E&I apprentice.

Go for it mate,I spent a year trying to get work as an engineer in Ireland but had no joy,I've worked in New Zealand/Oz/Saudi/Qatar easy do that,but if you want to settle in Ireland,qualifications are KEY!!

With the current climate the more qualified you are the more chance you have in been selected for the limited positions in Ireland.

At the end of the day if a lad rocks into an interview with an engineering degree & a trade in his back pocket,and another fella rocks in with only the trade. Take a guess who's going to land the job!!!!!!!!!

I do both E&I though mate

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!

Swirly Whirly wrote: »

Hello all,

Could do with picking a few minds here.

I'm 23, I'm a graduate with a honours science degree, would have had a masters only that I had to drop out due to not being able to afford the tuition fees. Stuck in a rut at the minute; I've no job and can't honestly find one. I'm not exactly picky, I've just not had much luck. I've had a few interviews but no luck at all.

Now you can see where this is going, I've been told of a large electrical contractor looking for apprentice electricians. It's not something I wouldn't mind doing; my grandad was a sparks in the ESB and dad works in the process instrumentation area. Always liked any electrical end of things I studied, even going back to LC physics. So, I've a rough idea of what it's about (probably doing donkey work for the first while).

Am I completely and utterly nuts? I'd like to do it but I'm kinda looking for a second opinion.

bucky08

Hello op i completed a diploma in electronic engineering and then went and done my trade as an electrician, i was 22 at the time and the 4 years flew for me dont regret it at all.. going back to college in september to get level 8 degree for one year think you need as much qualifications to land that one good job everyone is looking for best of luck op...