Walking mountain at night

Panda_Turtle

Do you think this is a bit mad?

There is a 35 minute walk up the hill I like to do during the day with the dogs.

Fancy it now, but its dark, might do it with a torch though.

My dog usually flushes out pheasants during the day, Id be worried he might catch one at night. Also I`d be worried I might see a ghost :P or some other unpleasant creature :pac:

But on a clear night it would be a great view

Anybody else here hike/walk at night?

se conman

Night walking is great, with company for the safety factor. I would be concerned about not having full control of the dogs in the dark.

SNAKEDOC

Walking at night is a risky business. First off i dont mean to sound narky or anything but no dog should be off a leash in the mountains so there should be no fear of him catching anything. Ive known some people who have nearly had to leave their pet behind in the mountains because they ran off chasing a deer or something. Its irrisponsible to let a dog run free like that no matter of the dogs temprament. Not to mention the rules about having dogs on leashes.

Secondly just be prepared. A survival bag is light and can fit in your pocket. Have your phone charged and in a water proof bag. Tell someone where you are going and when your expected back. Have a torch and maybe spare batteries. Proper footware is very important as is clothing, insulation layer hat gloves etc. Knowledge is essential when night hiking. Know your route, and finally rudementry night navigational skills plus the tools of the trade map compass and torch are needed.

In this country a clear night can become a stormy night quickly so getting caught out is all to common. We had some fatalities recently when two guys just "went for a walk" so always er on the side of caution. I have had my bags packed for a camping trip in wicklow the past two weeks but have not chanced it with the weather, and im relatively well experienced. The last thing you want is to have an injury incapacitating you exposed to that weather. Hypothermia in a matter of minutes.

I dont mean to sound condecending or anything but people get caught out too easily these days by simply not expecting the worst.

My running motto, "plan for the worst, hope for the best"

Hope this helps.

CardinalJ

I go out at night at least once a week and love it, but it's certainly riskier than during the day.

You have to think a little bit more about what your doing, but once you do that you should be able to make it enjoyable and lessen risk. Depending on where you go you'll find quite a few people who are out doing the same thing as you. I'd hike and MTB around tiknock/Tibradden/Glencullen and you can see how many others are up there clearly from the lights as night.

Only started doing it at night a few months ago but my main observations are below.
1) Making sure you have a full charge in your phone is harder given you're not charging it over night. The cold also eats through your battery very fast, so heading off having quickly charged it up to 40-50% means you're going to be scraping home with almost nothing, presuming everything goes to plan.
2) You're far more heavily reliant on met.ie or where ever you get your forecast from. You can't really look out the window and see what's blowing in from 20 minutes away.
3) Spare batteries
4) Spare batteries
5) You notice just how many deer there are out there staring at you.
6) a head lamp is a must.
7) You could definitely get lost easier. I was up in ticknock in the snow last week when a mini 'blizzard' blew in and you really have to think more about where you're going and what you're stepping on. I'd say I know that particular area like the back of my hand and was surprised by how quickly the visibility went.
8) As mentioned by SNAKEDOC, prepare for the worst. Certainly treat any night hike differently to a normal day.

Panda_Turtle

Cheers great advice all round.

With regards to phones I was thinking of buying one of these portable phone recharger packs (less powerful ones are a bit cheaper):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/EasyAcc%C2%AE-16000mAh-Lighting-Charging-Smartphones/dp/B00H8JYOG2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_computers_2

BeardySi

A better plan would be an old nokia or something rather than a smartphone - they tend to get better signals in weak areas and battery life is measured in days rather than hours...

Panda_Turtle

Treadhead wrote: »

A better plan would be an old nokia or something rather than a smartphone - they tend to get better signals in weak areas and battery life is measured in days rather than hours...

Ah yes I have a tesco phone still in its box that I bought for tenner delivered that fits this bill

Although am only contemplating a 40min round trip at the moment. Gone off the idea slightly now

sawdoubters

mountain rescue 24 hours

Judge

You don't say where you are or what terrain you will be walking through. If you are going through forests at this time of year be aware that it's deer culling season and that hunts usually happen at night. For instance, there is a major cull going on over the next few months in the Dublin Mountains - see here for details.

I'd add a high-vis jacket to the equipment lists Snakedoc and CardinalJ suggest above, especially if you are going to be near any roads. Also keep the spare batteries and your phone in a pocket in one of your inner layers so your body heat can slow the rate of power loss.

Panda_Turtle

sawdoubters wrote: »

mountain rescue 24 hours

What?

Panda_Turtle

Judge wrote: »

You don't say where you are or what terrain you will be walking through. If you are going through forests at this time of year be aware that it's deer culling season and that hunts usually happen at night. For instance, there is a major cull going on over the next few months in the Dublin Mountains - see here for details.
.

Why are they culling deers ?

Terrain is handy enough. Not really mountainous more hilly the route im chattin about

Judge

Panda_Turtle wrote: »

Why are they culling deers ?

No natural predators since the wolf went extinct in Ireland in the 1700s leads to overpopulation so they need to be culled annually to keep the populations viable and stable. Also, they strip the bark from the trees, which is bad for commercial foresters like Coillte and also for the environment generally. Finally, where do you think the fresh venison in your local butcher's comes from?

Panda_Turtle

Judge wrote: »

No natural predators since the wolf went extinct in Ireland in the 1700s leads to overpopulation so they need to be culled annually to keep the populations viable and stable. Also, they strip the bark from the trees, which is bad for commercial foresters like Coillte and also for the environment generally. Finally, where do you think the fresh venison in your local butcher's comes from?

Same problem with human overpopulation worldwide imo.

Any plans to reintroduce the wolf? That would be awesome

sawdoubters

st Patrick drove all the ghosts out of ireland

SomeFool

Panda_Turtle wrote: »

Ah yes I have a tesco phone still in its box that I bought for tenner delivered that fits this bill

Although am only contemplating a 40min round trip at the moment. Gone off the idea slightly now

Don't go off the idea!! Starting small is a good idea along with taking on board all the good advice being offered in this thread you will build your experience, nothing like being on a summit to catch sunrise! If you use a camera turn off the flash and a long exposure time if you can.

beveragelady

I am a lady with no love for sunlight and I walk at night all the time, almost every night. I always bring a torch, but I rarely use it. I usually visit the same woods, taking varying routes, but I often take to the hills for a change. It's strangely addictive. You'll get a lot of mindless ranting from people who think you're taking your life in your hands, but when you ask them why, they can't fully explain themselves. There is no logical reason for the nighttime to be more dangerous than daytime for somebody who is prepared.
At night you know you're alone, which is very satisfying if you like that sort of thing. The scenery takes on a strange aspect, it's otherworldly. I always find that the dogs stick closer to me when we're out at night so they're even easier to manage.
For some reason it is assumed that we are safe during the day but bad people come out at night. This is an illusion, one I've never really understood. I love darkness, moonlight and starlight, and I'm glad to see a like-minded soul reclaiming the night from superstition and hysteria!

silverharp

nice post, it has something, I started going camping at night this winter as friday evening after work is about the only time I can go. it limits the choice but there are a good selection of places where you have an hour or two on decent enough tracks. probably wouldnt do it too close to Dublin in case of running into skangers but anywhere south of Enniskerry should be fine. for safety I normally have GPS tracking on so family can track me from home. Would be nice at the moment with the full moon..

beveragelady

beveragelady wrote: »

I would never take them at night over other people's private land. That would be weird and creepy, and while I am crepuscular at best (nocturnal given half a chance) I am definitely not creepy.

Whatever about my concerns about dogs, I don't think it would be weird to go hiking along the Kerry way or camping in the Reeks at night time, people do it all the time.

BarryD

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

... The last thing you want is to have an injury incapacitating you exposed to that weather. Hypothermia in a matter of minutes...

I think night walking is grand, you just need to take that bit of extra care..

Without wishing to be picky or go off topic, I don't think the quote above is entirely accurate. Mountain hypothermia is not something that comes on in a matter of minutes, unless you happen to fall into a frozen lake or something like that in which case, this is technically called immersion hypothermia as far as I recall from first aid training.

Mountain hypothermia is sometimes called exhaustion exposure and various factors contribute - tiredness/ exhaustion, hunger, being wet through and/or subject to strong wind chill etc. It tends to occur near the end of long days or in association with an accident etc. where someone is immobilised. Even in latter case, it won't be minutes, unless you've gone out in your pajamas!
http://www.scotclimb.org.uk/safety/hypothermia.shtml

So in the case of hillwalkers it tends to develop slowly, often without people realising and must be treated 'slowly', to bring the core temp back up slowly.

beveragelady

So, OP, did you go for that walk? Did you bloody love it? If you plan on doing it again, try doing the easy bits without a torch. After a while you'll find you don't need the torch at all and you see so much more.
I'm just getting my things together to head off on my moonlit constitutional.
If you hear a lone voice howling at the moon, close the shutters and put a log on the fire. It's only me, but the dogs have no control over me, who knows what I'm likely to do.

Panda_Turtle

beveragelady wrote: »

So, OP, did you go for that walk? Did you bloody love it? If you plan on doing it again, try doing the easy bits without a torch. After a while you'll find you don't need the torch at all and you see so much more.
I'm just getting my things together to head off on my moonlit constitutional.
If you hear a lone voice howling at the moon, close the shutters and put a log on the fire. It's only me, but the dogs have no control over me, who knows what I'm likely to do.

I didn't go. Woof

Pat Mustard

sawdoubters wrote: »

mountain rescue 24 hours

sawdoubters wrote: »

st Patrick drove all the ghosts out of ireland

Mod

Sawdoubters, please do not post in this thread again.

If you have no genuine contribution to make, then do not post. Irrelevant and off topic posts make it more difficult for genuine posters to find relevant information.

Please bear this in mind if you post in this forum again, or it is likely that you will receive more than a verbal warning.

SNAKEDOC

BarryD wrote: »

I think night walking is grand, you just need to take that bit of extra care..

Without wishing to be picky or go off topic, I don't think the quote above is entirely accurate. Mountain hypothermia is not something that comes on in a matter of minutes, unless you happen to fall into a frozen lake or something like that in which case, this is technically called immersion hypothermia as far as I recall from first aid training.

Mountain hypothermia is sometimes called exhaustion exposure and various factors contribute - tiredness/ exhaustion, hunger, being wet through and/or subject to strong wind chill etc. It tends to occur near the end of long days or in association with an accident etc. where someone is immobilised. Even in latter case, it won't be minutes, unless you've gone out in your pajamas!
http://www.scotclimb.org.uk/safety/hypothermia.shtml

So in the case of hillwalkers it tends to develop slowly, often without people realising and must be treated 'slowly', to bring the core temp back up slowly.

In studies conducted by a university in london hypothermia sets in within 60-90 minutes when wet in + 6 degree conditions with a light breeze of 10 kpm. So i think my statement is very relevent.

beveragelady

Aaand... I'm just back from my walk. Panda_Turtle, you're missing out.
Get out there and reclaim the darkness in the name of the sane-but-eccentric, the lost-but-contented and the socially inept.
It's OUR night, OUR drizzle and OUR partially-obscured moon. Let's take it back!
Who's with me?
Anyone?


Mmmmmmfffeeeerghghghgh.

Sorry, I'm fighting the urge to point out a few things in the 'effectual control' debate but I'll keep my observations on that (unresolved) issue to myself.

If I was a native American they'd call me Walks Under Stars Saying Nothing.

Pat Mustard

If people want to continue discussion on control of dogs, relevant posts have been copied to a new thread for discussion of that topic.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057152027

BarryD

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

In studies conducted by a university in london hypothermia sets in within 60-90 minutes when wet in + 6 degree conditions with a light breeze of 10 kpm. So i think my statement is very relevent.

Ah, but have you a link to this study? What were the parameters? Where did it take place? In real conditions or in a laboratory etc.? What does it mean by 'set in'? A 1 degree or 2 or 0.1 degree drop in core temperature?

If you go for a swim on a cool day with a chilly breeze, you'd be 'frozen' when you get out and try to change etc. Doubtless hypothermia would set in soon enough if you stood there, wet, with no clothes on!

But these aren't the conditions that the majority of walkers/ hillwalkers operate in. Common sense would tell us that we frequently spend hours out on the hills in +6 degrees Celsius with light breezes and often damp from rain or sweat. And people don't be dropping like flies on the hills with mountain hypothermia.

I think one needs to be aware of these things, but not overhype them. There's an increasing tendency nowadays towards aversion to risk. Last Sunday I was amazed to hear some chap pontificating on the radio about how careless people were, by simply going down to view the sea up in a heap. Life is for experiencing and if due care is taken, I think it's fine for people to walk at night or watch the stormy sea from a reasonably safe distance

Riamfada

Has anyone walked an spinc in Wicklow alone at night? I walked up Montpellier and ran into a few drug addicts in the Hellfire Club, probably wouldnt walk it again at night. Ive been around the graveyard taking photos, viewable in my sig, but Ive never actually started up the trail.

Are there any walks that people would suggest or any that you would avoid?

BarryD

I'd be wary of city or urban areas at night for obvious reasons. Likewise, you might want to be careful passing isolated farmhouses at night unbeknownst to the occupiers - in case dogs get alerted and the locals think you're up to no good!

On this subject, John McKenna I think, formerly of RTE, had a book out a few years ago where he talked of the therapeutic effects of walking in Mullaghreelan Woods near Castledermot at night.

beveragelady

While I am a huge fan of walking at night, and I'm always banging on to other people about how great it is, I'd be reluctant to recommend routes. As a wee little lady walking with only the protection of my dogs and my biting sarcasm, I suppose I feel safer if other people don't use my routes.

"MY routes!" I sound like I think own the place.

And out there, with my eyes on Orion and the night like the embrace of a lover, perhaps I do, for a couple of hours at least, own the land and all it contains.

SNAKEDOC

BarryD wrote: »

Ah, but have you a link to this study? What were the parameters? Where did it take place? In real conditions or in a laboratory etc.? What does it mean by 'set in'? A 1 degree or 2 or 0.1 degree drop in core temperature?

If you go for a swim on a cool day with a chilly breeze, you'd be 'frozen' when you get out and try to change etc. Doubtless hypothermia would set in soon enough if you stood there, wet, with no clothes on!

But these aren't the conditions that the majority of walkers/ hillwalkers operate in. Common sense would tell us that we frequently spend hours out on the hills in +6 degrees Celsius with light breezes and often damp from rain or sweat. And people don't be dropping like flies on the hills with mountain hypothermia.

I think one needs to be aware of these things, but not overhype them. There's an increasing tendency nowadays towards aversion to risk. Last Sunday I was amazed to hear some chap pontificating on the radio about how careless people were, by simply going down to view the sea up in a heap. Life is for experiencing and if due care is taken, I think it's fine for people to walk at night or watch the stormy sea from a reasonably safe distance

Ray mears extrwme survival season 2 episode 2 cant get the link up its on you tube. Study in canada. The experiment was conducted to show worst case senario meaning the conditions were cold wet and windy. Although +8 degrees isnt that cold when wet and with a 10 mph wind it get very cold. The subject does not ahave a water proof layer so he loses core temperature fast. After 1.5 hours the experiment is stopped. The study was done because of the number of people who do not as you say take sue care. Hypothermia is a killer and some people are oblivious to the dangers.

As for the guy on the radio, two guys died while experiencing life and watching the stormy sea. I dont think he was " pontificating for the good of his health rather to sve lives. You may be well versed in hiking and being prepared but not everyone is. And another point our coast guard and mountain rescue are mostly volinteers who have to go looking and rescuing these people when they fal foul to the conditions so i think aversion to risk is a very good idea because its not just your life your endangering.

BarryD

Oh, I'd have little doubt but that the research is technically correct but as I say, common sense and experience informs us that people do not start dropping like flies on the average wet & breezy day in the Irish hills from mountain hypothermia. Tiredness, exhaustion, hunger, fatigue, lack of fitness, poor equipment, low morale, injury - these are the contributory factors and what needs to be looked out for and prevented or rectified.

The sad circumstance of two people recently losing their life by going for a walk along the sea doesn't mean that others should be labelled as irresponsible just because they wish to do the same. The most dangerous thing most of us engage with in daily life is the driving of metal boxes at speed on our roads. Many people die or get injured each year doing this but people would raise an eyebrow if you suggested that it's irresponsible to drive??

It's really a matter of people taking and being allowed to take personal responsibility for their own safety. You or I have no right to expect to be rescued from our own mishaps. If it's works out that way, we should be appreciative but we should not travel in the expectation of emergency help. We would be grateful if people voluntarily down tools, get out of bed etc to help us but we've no right to expect this.

I have been struck more than once recently by this decline or change in public attitude. For example, if you suggested to a tourist now that they might like a little tour out to visit St.Kevin's Bed in Glendalough, people would throw up their hands in horror - far too dangerous etc., scene of lots of accidents. Maybe this is so, but there are accounts in various guides to Wicklow of ordinary tourists doing just precisely this in the 1800s. Here's a photo taken about 1930 maybe - shows a lady being guided down the slab known as Ladys Leap enroute to Kevin's Bed. I don't think you'd see the same thing today somehow or other yet it was once part of the visitor experience, for the adventurous at any rate

SNAKEDOC

Whether or not you expect rescue or not im merely pointing out the fact that like in the picture people take crazy chances with their lives with little or no thought in what they are doing. I understand that people do not as you say drop like flies on the hills due to a host of ailments but that being said given the right or depending on your view the wrong conditions hypothermia can set in. At no point did i say that it would be fatal rather that someone not equiped with knowledge and gear to fight the onset would sucome to its effects rapidly and require outside help.

In the context of night walking where the person is on a mountain and happens to fall and be incapasitated only equiped for a thirty or forty minute trip could be exposed for up to ten hours of darkness this time of year and if it were to rain with no proper wet gear the person would become hypothermic within a very short period of time. No frozen lakes would be needed or sub artic conditions. The best conditions for hypothermia is a moderate wet windy climate which is in abundance here.

I dont mean to put every person off from enjoying hiking or night walking or any outdoors activities, quite the opposite in fact, but there are too many people who walk headlong into situations they are not equiped to handle.
A i said before plan for the worst. Each hike i take i am equiped for a possible overnight stay, that might be extreme to some but wise planning to others. I dont exactly pack the kitchen sink but enough to keep me fed watered and dry regardless of the location.

BarryD

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

A i said before plan for the worst. Each hike i take i am equiped for a possible overnight stay, that might be extreme to some but wise planning to others. I dont exactly pack the kitchen sink but enough to keep me fed watered and dry regardless of the location.

Quite and that's you taking personal responsibility for your own safety which is what everyone should be doing. Although each to their own, sometimes carrying too much can be as bad as carrying too little, in terms of the physical effort and the impact it might have on completing your chosen route

CardinalJ

Riamfada wrote: »

Has anyone walked an spinc in Wicklow alone at night? I walked up Montpellier and ran into a few drug addicts in the Hellfire Club, probably wouldnt walk it again at night. Ive been around the graveyard taking photos, viewable in my sig, but Ive never actually started up the trail.

Are there any walks that people would suggest or any that you would avoid?

I did the spinc in Glendalough starting at about 7am 2 weeks ago. Got bright as I went but was amazing to be up there totally on your own. Didn't come across anyone until I was back at the car park.

The ticknock area is a pretty safe area in terms of undesirables at night. Plenty of 'normal' people up there walking around and MTBing. The Hellfire would be somewhere I'd avoid at night. It generally attracts people who aren't up there for the walk!

The Wicklow way around Glencullen/Eniskerry is also fine.

Gasherbraun

I think it was David Herman who wrote in his book 'Hillwalkers Wicklow' that you can never fully know the mountains until you have experienced them at night and I think this is very true.

I particularly remember being in the Glenmacnass valley last summer from about 4.00am waiting to photograph the sunrise and the sense of isolation and feeling of really being away from civilisation is something that is well worth experiencing and rare in the modern Western world.

Obviously the enjoyment needs to be tempered with taking responsibility for your own safety but anyone considering going into the mountains at night should know what this means.

If anyone wants to experience the mountains at night but do not feel they are confident in the environment there are various companies who offer paid guided options. There is a company in Glen Imaal who offer guided walks onto Lugnaquilia via Camarahill for sunrise led by the current team leader for Glen Imaal MRT so he knows his stuff.

To Riamfada - Glendalough is fine at night and if you are familiar with the local track system navigation is very basic leaving more time to just enjoy the experience. I have not been there for a few months but I think the visitors centre car park is open 24 hours and free.

Alun

Gasherbraun wrote: »

There is a company in Glen Imaal who offer guided walks onto Lugnaquilia via Camarahill for sunrise led by the current team leader for Glen Imaal MRT so he knows his stuff.

That's Aaron Byrne from Mountain ventures I assume? Anyway, I thought Ann Fitzpatrick (also WMNP Ranger) was the current GOIMRT team leader?

Gasherbraun

Alun wrote: »

That's Aaron Byrne from Mountain ventures I assume? Anyway, I thought Ann Fitzpatrick (also WMNP Ranger) was the current GOIMRT team leader?

Yes Alun I meant Aaron Byrne - I am never sure about naming commercial operations on here :-)

I am sure you are right re the current team leader and my info is probably out of date.

Either way I would definitely trust Mountain Ventures as one of the best operaters in their field if someone was looking for a Wicklow guide.

SNAKEDOC

BarryD wrote: »

Quite and that's you taking personal responsibility for your own safety which is what everyone should be doing. Although each to their own, sometimes carrying too much can be as bad as carrying too little, in terms of the physical effort and the impact it might have on completing your chosen route

I dont consider it too much.
A light weight tarp plus a tarp as ground sheet bout .2kg total
Water proof layer
Ration pack for 24 hours
Water for 24 hours but bout two liters
My pack is normally very light i can easily run with it on my back. I just rather have it and not need it...................