Father & Fiance HATE each other

KMM

I'm going to try and keep this a brief and as clear as possible. Hopefully you can give me some advice.

So I'm engaged to a wonderful man who I have been with since 2011. Anyway, after a family trip last November my father and fiance had a almighty falling out. In short my fiance has always found my Dad a little on the difficult side and on this occasion after repeatedly asking my Dad to not do something and my father not listening, he snapped at my Dad. My Dad freaked out. I mean shouting, roaring etc. about how disrespectful my fiance was and how he has no right to speak to him like that and he should treat his elders with more respect. Obviously over the entire trip the tension remained and it was unbelievably awkward. My father would not let it go and kept telling me I would be making a mistake and how he is his elder etc.

Once we got home my fiance wrote a long email, explaining his side and his frustrations. And apologized for the tone in his voice when he snapped (according to my Dad it was snide!). He did not apologize for what he had said and maintained he was right. I read the email before it was sent and thought it got his point across even though I may not have agreed with everything he had written. Anyway once my Dad read it again he lost the plot.

My Dad says he is not welcome in his home, or into the family. He said my fiance was lazy, fat and good for nothing. I could go on with the amount of abuse I got down the phone. All about how angry he is and how dare my fiance talk to him like that and who does he think he is etc. Oh it's f*&king exhausting.

Anyway, what the hell do I do? I have generally always been close with my Dad even though he can be overbearing and loves to think he knows everything. He is my Dad after all. But jesus christ this has just come out of field. I have no idea how to handle it or what the right thing to do is. I feel like if I don't end my relationship with my fiance, my Dad won't have a relationship with me.

I need all the advice I can get.

Thanks

Your dad is being a brat because he didn't get the outcome he wanted. I'd say he's used to people falling into line under threat of his outbursts. He has absolutely no right to put his hurt ego before your happiness, and if he's willing for his own daughter to be unhappy to confirm his opinion of himself as always right, then he deserves to be put to one side until he learns some manners.

Your dad has probably always operated one way and expects the world to fall in line. Your finance has done the mature thing and made clear his position, but your dad interpreted this as having his authority questioned. Take a step back, and look at the future. It's with your fiance, and if your dad would have you choose, then it says a lot about him. Your loyalty lies with your partner and you shouldn't consider pandering to his demands - implicit maybe, but still demands - at the cost of your happiness. Your dad is a selfish man.

Tell your dad you're disappointed with his attitude and thought your happiness was more important to him than that. Leave your fiance at home when you visit if your dad is there. And leave him stew in a situation of his own making, not yours.

Easier said than done, but don't give in to nasty self serving ultimatums, you'll be the biggest loser if you cave to that behaviour.

LegacyUser

Your father keeps going on about "respecting elders" but honestly he sounds like a child.

It's hard to know who is right and wrong because we dont know the full details about the argument - but I think that's irrelevant. The fact is - they need to sit down TOGETHER and talk this through. I really dont think you should end things with your fiance just because of your father having a hissy fit?

Again - not sure who is right or wrong but really that shouldnt matter. If they cannot sit down together and work through this then really you will have no choice but to choose between them. I doubt thats what you want to happen!

Does your father just not want to hear about it at all? Is there no way at all you can sit down and try talking to him?

username123

+1 to the above.

Your father has no business calling your fiance fat, lazy etc either - thats just plain rude. Dont entertain a call like that! Simply hang up.

Im afraid you are in a position of being made to make a choice here - it is your father who is putting you in this position. Be clear with him that you will not submit to such a choice and that he is wrong to put you in such a position.

I mean, what does your father want out of this - for you to break up with your fiance? And then what? Is he happy for you to be single until you meet someone who does fall into line for him?

You cant base your relationship on who your father wants or doesnt want you to be with - its YOUR relationship and YOUR life.

tinkerbell

OP, I'd be having a serious word with your father. Assuming your fiancé is a good guy and treats you well, your father has no right to act that way towards him. I'd be asking him to apologise otherwise if he keeps up this thing of your fiancé not being made welcome, then you won't be visiting either.

Tokyo

OP, I think that you and your father need to sit down and have a talk.

As others before me have pointed out, without knowing the details of the argument, or the email send afterwards (which by your own admission you didn't fully agree with), nobody here can judge who's right or wrong, but the fact remains that you have planned to spend the rest of your life with your partner, and if both parties are to be a part of your life, then while they don't have to hug and embrace each other, they do need to be at least civil to each other.

When you talk to your father you need to make him aware that this man is going to be your partner, long term, and that your path forward in life is going to be with him, not with your parents under their roof. And like it or not, he doesn't have control over who you become involved with, and and that from here on in he will have to accept you as a couple, not just you the individual.

When you speak to both parties individually, let them know how the current situation is affecting you - that it makes you awkward and uncomfortable and that it is hurting you. If they both love you, they will try to make an effort for you. If your dad starts to rant and rave again, try to let him ask the questions he needs to get out there, and if he is over reacting about something, calmly explain how and why he is wrong. Tell him that you love your partner and would like to have your chance to make it work. For your partner, ask him to try and make an effort to be civil to your father until they can both get past their differences.

KMM

Thanks for all the replies peeps

Candie I think you've probably hit the nail on the head. It has been mentioned once or twice to me that he has behaved in such a way all his life and no one has tried to put a stop to it. I have to admit I am equally guilty of it. I just appease him as much as I can to avoid drama. I have tried to change this over the years but it is far from easy.

I don't want to put down my Dad, but at the same time I feel he's out of line. If my fiance was like me he would have apologized just to save us from all this drama, but that's not who he is. And really why should he appease my Dad just for the sake of it. It's not sincere then.

Tinkerbell, trying to talk to my Dad and try to have him even hear what I am trying to say is beyond a challenge. He is always right, without question. I wouldn't be with my Fiance if he didn't treat me well and make me happy. And yet that counts for nothing apparently and all of this makes me feel like no one trusts my judgement.

I am currently trying to talk to him but it is not going well. My fiance is at fault for challenging him and I am at fault for supposedly thinking that is ok. Basically I am between a very large, heavy rock and a hard place.

KMM

KMM wrote: »

I am currently trying to talk to him but it is not going well. My fiance is at fault for challenging him and I am at fault for supposedly thinking that is ok. Basically I am between a very large, heavy rock and a hard place.

Well his track record is of someone who doesn't listen or accept being challenged. His behaviour is very bullying to be honest KMM, and the more you try to get him to listen, the more he controls your behaviour by having you be the one tryin to appease him, so if I were you I'd just ignore the issue. You didn't create it, you didn't perpetuate it, and you don't have to solve it. If your dad tries to involve you, just tell him that - and don't engage.

I know that's easy to say but I've had experience of this, and the only way to deal with it is ignore it. You can't change anyone else's behaviour, only your own, and you can certainly show by your actions that you won't accept either you or your fiance being treated like that.

This is ALL about your dad, leave him at it because you've done nothing to deserve any of this. Don't be cowed over something as important as your happiness.

KMM

Thanks Candie.

I am going to try my best and follow your advice (and what good advice it is ) I don't want to lose either of them but really do feel like I am being forced to choose and that is down to my Dad. He may not have said it in so many words but I can imagine how smug he would feel if that is the end result of all of this.


I'm exhausted!

Your dad doesn't sound like he'll settle for anything less than being right and having everyone bow to his will, so try not to spend any energy on trying to change him. Your priority is your fiance, who sounds lovely

Best of luck with everything, I know too well how hard this kind of thing is

Big Bag of Chips

Your fiance is an adult, with no previous history with your father. You have grown up with your dad's behaviour, and spent your whole life, as everyone around you has, agreeing with him for the sake of a quiet life. Your fiancé doesn't have to do that if he doesn't want to.

"Elders" deserve respect, if they treat others with equal respect. If someone is cranky, cantankerous and difficult then they don't deserve to be respected by those younger than them. And to think that they do is just another symptom of their difficult and bullying personality.

I would now stay away from your dad. From what you say, your fiancé isn't wrong. He is a wonderful man, who you love. If you leave your fiancé now, then what about the next fella you like? What if you don't love him as much as you love your fiancé, but your dad thinks he's wonderful because he cowers before him and "respects" him? You have probably 60 years of your life ahead of you. I'm guessing, without wanting to upset you, that your dad doesn't have 60 years of your life ahead of him...

Your dad feels he has been disrespected, it seems your dad has seriously disrespected you, your fiancé, and your relationship. All because of a tantrum. I love my dad with my whole heart.. but in your situation I'd be steering clear of him until he came to his senses. And if he didn't come to his senses, much as it would hurt and upset me, I'd see at as his loss rather than mine.

Mighty_Mouse

I can't help but think that this whole situation could of been managed a little better by your fiance? He escalated this situation into an avoidable mess.

In-law tensions are just part of life. Too many reasons for resentment exist.
The classic being the mother hating daughter-in-law for not being good enough and father hating son-in-law for being the man who is sleeping with his daughter.

Your father is clearly a child with some weird notion that age entitles a person to respect. It's just not your fiances role to point that out. I can't see why he would write an email to an unreasonable person explaining their unreasonableness? What did he expect to happen?

The relationship is probably broken. The only option is for both men to allow some time to pass and return to mutual silent disregard as god intended.

Tramps Like Us

It's hard to really comment on the argument because you haven't given much detail, maybe your dad had reason to be annoyed... seems he didn't like your dad beforehand and now he is telling him "not to do something"? Not much detail but it sounds like he was trying to boss your dad around and then got thick with him and your dad blew up

You shouldnt have let your fiancé send a letter like that tbh, one which is basically saying "I was right" - how could it do anything other than start the argument up again?

Your dad sounds hardheaded, but so does your fiancé!

It mightn't be "right" or fair but my advice would be to think about which one would be most willing to swallow his pride and say sorry and ask him to do that. You say you are close to your dad so it doesnt seem that he is a bad man, just a bit hard to deal with - but it is your dad... this is the type of thing that will go on forever unless its sorted soon - this should have been done before the letter!

What does your mum say?

KMM

Mighty Mouse & Tramps Like Us:

The email was sent as a means to put my fiance's opinion across and explain what led to him snapping. He apologized if it seemed disrespectful as that was not the intention but did not apologize for what he actually said. I am fine with that.

I will go into it more. My father was driving, on a busy European motorway. He spent most of his time fiddling with the uncooperative sat-nav, than looking at the road. He freaked at me when I did not look to my left when we where filtering into a new section of motorway. And that's when my Fiance snapped. Because my father childishly freaked out and shouted at me for not doing something that was not my responsibility in the first place. And so here we are. Have you ever heard of something so unreasonable in your whole life. There is much more to it, basically similar events and similar freak outs but now you have the gist. It is far too long winded to go into every details.

Tramps Like Us

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

It's hard to really comment on the argument because you haven't given much detail, maybe your dad had reason to be annoyed... seems he didn't like your dad beforehand and now he is telling him "not to do something"? Not much detail but it sounds like he was trying to boss your dad around and then got thick with him and your dad blew up

My take on it was that it could be something like the dad lecturing the fiance on how he's doing xyz wrong, or talking over him etc etc
It's hard to know
I think OP should take Candie's advice

Tramps Like Us

bluewolf wrote: »

My take on it was that it could be something like the dad lecturing the fiance on how he's doing xyz wrong, or talking over him etc etc
It's hard to know
I think OP should take Candie's advice

Seems her dad was stressed driving and her fiance was back seat driving and then got thick with her dad... pair of them in it

Tramps Like Us

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Seems her dad was stressed driving and her fiance was back seat driving and then got thick with her dad... pair of them in it

Um... the dad was driving, the dad was yelling at her, fiance said stop yelling at her
Which is fair enough imo
Fair play to the fiance for standing up for her
So OP I think I'm still behind candie's advice to you
Don't engage, it's not for you to solve

Tramps Like Us

bluewolf wrote: »

Um... the dad was driving, the dad was yelling at her, fiance said stop yelling at her
Which is fair enough imo
Fair play to the fiance for standing up for her

Sounds like the fiance was getting on the dads back about fiddling with the sat nav (op says he was telling him to stop doing something)... as I said I think there was a pair of them in it, driving in a foreign country with a broken satnav can be very stressful, I'd cut the dad some slack.

OP's fiance sending an email explaining how he was right in this argument still seems weird to me

KMM

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Seems her dad was stressed driving and her fiance was back seat driving and then got thick with her dad... pair of them in it

Does my Dad being stressed make it ok to treat me like a child and scream at me for something I was never asked to do in the first place?

Either way I get what your saying. And I put the same thing to my fiance. As in getting thick with him. But as I have also already said that was not the intention and him trying to apologize for that misunderstanding is exactly what is causing all this mess.

Tramps Like Us

KMM wrote: »

Does my Dad being stressed make it ok to treat me like a child and scream at me for something I was never asked to do in the first place?

Either way I get what your saying. And I put the same thing to my fiance. As in getting thick with him. But as I have also already said that was not the intention and him trying to apologize for that misunderstanding is exactly what is causing all this mess.

No ofc not but it is a mitigating factor... and a stressed driver shouting at you (after a near miss it sounds like, or he didn't see a car coming? Half of it could be fright) certainly isnt something that warrants all this fuss.

The thing is your fiance didnt apologize for the misunderstanding but just for the tone of his voice and then proceeded to lecture your dad about how he was wrong - if there was even a slight hint of that its how it would be picked up

What should have been done is to just to leave things be for a few months, but with the letter I think it has escalated a bit too much for that, sometimes leaving it can lead to even more hard feeling and once something goes on for a certain time the damage is permanent even when those feuding cant remember why they fell out.

Maybe you could just stay out of it and still talk to your dad normally? He doesnt sound like the kind who will suddenly pick up the phone after months of silence and say sorry, but will rather think that your fiance has turned you against him.

I'm probably gonna get blasted for this but I think the most prudent thing would be to ask your fiance to just say sorry (even if he doesnt mean it) and then leave the ball in your dads court... when it comes to in laws sometimes you just have to bite your tongue

If I were your fiance I would swallow my pride and just try and smooth things over by saying whatever because I can see this causing bigger issues down the road (ie wedding, kids etc) which will upset you - in a world of hardheaded principles about who is right and who is wrong thats not the "fair" thing but probably the most pragmatic

Anyway I hope it works out, its a silly thing to have such a big argument about

Big Bag of Chips

Look, KMM, nothing was going to please your dad. Sending the email was wrong. If he hadn't sent an email it would have been wrong. If he showed up on the door step with a bottle of your dad's favourite drink to try discuss it, it would have been wrong. If he avoided your dad and didn't speak to him for a month it would be wrong.

Your dad is used to treating people younger than him as children. You say yourself he was shouting at you as if you were a child.. he still sees anyone who is anymore than 15-20 years younger than him as a child, and as such, he's right, and even if he's not, then you should just "be seen and not heard".

I do agree that you need to stay out of it now. No matter what anyone does it's going to be wrong. So do nothing, and hope it blows over. Your fiancé shouldn't have to apologise for standing up for you. Your dad shouldn't have been fiddling with a sat nav while driving - he should have asked someone else to do it. But nothing anybody will ever say will convince your dad that he was at fault. Some people would say your fiancé shouldn't have said anything to your dad. But my take on it is your fiancé and your dad are both adults, and if your dad is doing something dangerous while driving, with you and your fiancé in the car, then of course he should have a right to say something. If your dad wanted to drive home after having 4 or 5 pints, should your fiancé just sit in the back and keep quiet because he should "respect his elders" and allow the older, wiser man to do what he likes?

Tramps Like Us

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

No ofc not but it is a mitigating factor... and a stressed driver shouting at you (after a near miss it sounds like, or he didn't see a car coming? Half of it could be fright) certainly isnt something that warrants all this fuss.

No, it's not a mitigating factor. The dad made a mistake and blamed his daughter for it. Then he shouted at her, trying to hold her responsible for his mistake. He's a bully, and the fiance didn't want his future wife bullied.

The thing is your fiance didnt apologize for the misunderstanding but just for the tone of his voice and then proceeded to lecture your dad about how he was wrong - if there was even a slight hint of that its how it would be picked up

The fiance made it clear he wasn't going to bow down and appease him, which he's used to people doing because he probably shouts longest and loudest until they do for a quiet life. Start as you mean to go on, so unless the fiance is planning on being bullied too, he did the right thing. He has nothing to apologise for.

What should have been done is to just to leave things be for a few months, but with the letter I think it has escalated a bit too much for that, sometimes leaving it can lead to even more hard feeling and once something goes on for a certain time the damage is permanent even when those feuding cant remember why they fell out

It does a bully no harm to be called out on their behaviour.

Maybe you could just stay out of it and still talk to your dad normally? He doesnt sound like the kind who will suddenly pick up the phone after months of silence and say sorry, but will rather think that your fiance has turned you against him.

Her dad wants her to break up with her fiance because he stood up to him. That is outrageous. It's selfish, it's hurtful, its purely to protect him from ever being challenged again. He's turned the situation abnormal and she can't pretend it's ok with her, her fiance is her priority.

I'm probably gonna get blasted for this but I think the most prudent thing would be to ask your fiance to just say sorry (even if he doesnt mean it) and then leave the ball in your dads court... when it comes to in laws sometimes you just have to bite your tongue

So the dad feels validated and entitled to shout at his daughter or grandkids in the future, and his son in law will let him away with it? No, just no.

If I were your fiance I would swallow my pride and just try and smooth things over by saying whatever because I can see this causing bigger issues down the road (ie wedding, kids etc) which will upset you - in a world of hardheaded principles about who is right and who is wrong thats not the "fair" thing but probably the most pragmatic

Her fiance is great. He won't let her dad bully her. If that causes her dad problems, it's her dad's problem. If he doesn't want to go to the wedding because he's not allowed shout at her for something she didn't do, that's fine. Bullies operate unchallenged, because nobody dares challenge them.

Anyway I hope it works out, its a silly thing to have such a big argument about

I've been there. Believe me, theres nothing silly about it.

GarIT

Something that seems to be happening here would be that your father is frustrated that he doesn't have power over you anymore and by the way the situation in the car went he might feel that your fiancé is in charge now and it upsets/angers/scares him. Some of an older generation have a built in mentality that every female has a man in charge of them, a possibility is that your father's problem is that it is no longer him.

A reason I thought of that is the argument of "respect your elders", it shows he is old fashioned. As soon as somebody uses they phrase they have lost the argument. Your father should be apologising just for mentioning that line regardless of the rest of the argument.

With the way you describe your father was driving your lives could have been at risk, your fiancé was completely in the right to speak up about it. If somebody's driving is worrying you, you should always speak up about it.

From what you have described I would say that your fiancé is completely in the right and if I were you I would be showing my loyalty to my fiancé and distancing myself from my father until my father was ready to apologise to my fiancé.

P. Breathnach

GarIT wrote: »

... I were you I would be showing my loyalty to my fiancé and distancing myself from my father until my father was ready to apologise to my fiancé.

Let's be realistic. If my interpretation of what OP said about her father is correct, there is no chance that he would consider apologising. It would be a good outcome if he stopped behaving in a petulant way. That would be his version of an apology. If he could be brought to that point, I would hope OP could persuade her fiancé to accept it as a truce.

deisemum

I've been in a similiar position as the fiance with a controlling father in law. The biggest mistake I made was biting my tongue to keep the peace when he behaved similiar to the OP's father. In the end my husband and I went to a relationship counsellor and the counsellor made it very clear that you shouldn't keep biting your tongue to keep the peace if someone is being disrespectful to you and to your relationship and that the person should be pulled up each and every time otherwise the disrespectful behaviour will continue.

She also pointed out to my husband that I was an adult in my own right and that I didn't need his permission to object and pull up his father on his behaviour towards me. She also told him to speak with his father and tell him that he loved him but that he also loved me and that a line was drawn in the sand and if he crossed that line then he'd back me and cut ties with his father.

OP your father is a bully and he's so used to shouting down people to get his own way and it's what you've grown up with and are conditioned to and half excusing it that you don't see how dreadful it is to someone looking in. The more you've posted about your fiance the more I admire him.

In your position I'd tell your father that you do not want to hear his negative comments about your fiance, he's welcome to his opinions but you don't want to hear them as you know what a good man your fiance is.

GarIT

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Let's be realistic. If my interpretation of what OP said about her father is correct, there is no chance that he would consider apologising. It would be a good outcome if he stopped behaving in a petulant way. That would be his version of an apology. If he could be brought to that point, I would hope OP could persuade her fiancé to accept it as a truce.

I agree completely. Personally I would expect an apology and nothing less will do, I can be stubborn though, we don't know what the OP's fiancé is like. I am big on loyalty, especially in relationships, in this case I feel the fiancé has clearly been wronged and would expect the OP to stand by her fiancé whatever outcome he wants (assuming it is reasonable), it the fiancé only wants a truce fair enough.

If somebody insulted me like the OP described, especially when they don't show any sort of remorse I would fully expect my partner to break all contact with them at least for a while regardless of who they are. If somebody purposefully insulted my partner regardless of who they are I would tell them I don't want to know them, I'd leave it a couple of months let how much their words affected me sink in and then when the dust has settled attempt to make up.

Another tactic the OP could consider is telling the father that his age doesn't earn him any extra respect and her fiancé deserves just as much respect as he does and if he can't see that he runs the risk of loosing her. If the OP tries to maintain a relationship with her father as things are it will give off the message that he can get away with what he is doing and that wouldn't be good at all.

The fiancé needs to stay out of it from now on, he can't change anything. The only people that have a chance of changing the fathers behaviour are the people that the father expects will support him. It is essential that the father is shown that he has no support at all from his daughter on this matter.

Toots

OP, is your mum in the picture? What does she think of all this?

You mentioned that you think your dad would feel really smug if you ended up splitting from your fiancé. I'd actually ask him out straight if that's what he's hoping will happen. If he says yes then that's more than just being pig-headed, that's downright cruel. Ask him does he care about your happiness at all, make it clear that there is absolutely no way you'll be splitting up with your fiancé, so he can forget about that possibility first and foremost.

Ask him to consider the future, hopefully it might make him think things over and put in a bit of perspective. I'm assuming you'll be getting married in the near(ish) future, it would do no harm to remind him of that. Ask him to consider the impact his actions will have on your future as a family - what about walking you up the aisle and giving you away on your wedding day? How will he be able to do that if he can't stand the sight of your soon-to-be husband? Would you even be able to have him at the wedding knowing he harbours so much animosity towards the groom? What about grand children? What sort of relationship would they have with him if he hates their dad?

Seriously, sit him down and spell this out for him. He needs to understand what he could potentially lose by continuing to act the way he's acting. If you don't feel up to doing it in person, or if you try to and he starts roaring and won't let you finish, then write him a letter - not an email, an actual letter. Don't ask me why, but letters seem to have much more of an impact than emails. I think they're more personal. Also in light of his reaction to the email your fiancé sent, that particular mode of communication might still be a bit of a sore point.

Ask him to take some time to think about all of this and consider the future. Ask him is he willing to sacrifice his relationship with you (and perhaps any future grandkids) over a stupid fight about a sat nav. Because that's what it was, he frustrated driving and he lashed out at you, fair enough, I'm sure a lot of us have done something similar, I know I've been a bit ratty driving in foreign countries - it's stressful, however if I've snapped at someone I'd always always apologise. That's what he should have done at the time, and he didn't. Another opportunity to make amends would have been when your fiance sent the email, but again, instead of acting like an adult, he threw another tantrum like a petulant child. TBH, I'd say you're probably not going to get an apology here, let's be realistic. I'd even go so far as to tell your dad you don't expect one. Tell him that you want to draw a line in the sand, put it all behind you and move on, and that you're fully prepared to do that if he agrees to treat your fiance with a bit of civility and respect. He doesn't have to start going out for pints with him, but respect and civility go both ways and he needs to wake up and realise that, and consider the bigger picture rather than holding on to his stubborn and misplaced grudge.

KMM

All of the advice you have given me has been great. It is deeply appriciated.

Some have asked about my Mum's opinion. My parents are not together and so I try not to drag my Mum in to dramas involving my Dad. I have spoken to her about it and she maintains I should just try to step away from it and let my Dad calm down. Although she is more than aware of what my Dad is like and finds it as difficult as I do to deal with. My Dad likes to throw in that Mum doesn't agree with the relationship either but when I have confronted her on this she has denied it.

My Dad is old fashioned in some ways. ie. respect your elders (ugh), he deserves automatic respect because he is my father etc. and I know that all comes from how he was brought up. But he does not see past it. He gets respect first and everything else comes later. My fiance on the other hand does not believe that someone deserves automatic respect and that it is something which is earned. I see both sides.

I asked my Dad what he wants me to do with everything he has said and his response is that he respects my loyalty to my fiance and does not want me to choose. And does not want to discuss it further with me! Once again his terms.

I may write to him as was suggested. But on the other hand I may just let the dust settle and maybe just forget about it. It seems that no choice is the rght choice in this situation.

Big Bag of Chips

Your dad has asked that you not talk about it again, so that's what you do. The dust will settle, it will blow over, and your father will realise (even if he doesn't like it!) that he cannot push your fiance around.

From now on you just carry on about your business as normal. Your fiance should also do the same. Your dad will eventually thaw, and things will become civil between everyone. Your dad and your fiance might never be "buddies", but they don't have to be.

Neither side will apologise, and there is nothing to be gained from sitting down and talking through it... It's not Home & Away

Just carry on as normal now, and allow everyone to forget the whole incident. Because that's really what everyone just wants.

Tramps Like Us

OP that's fantastic news, just leave it and carry on as normal now, no more letters gods sake lol

KMM

A few days of silence and my Dad kicks off again! I can not win with either of them at this stage.

I am feeling very lost and frustrated

Thanks everyone for taking the time to pass on some sound advice

daisybelle2008

KMM wrote: »

A few days of silence and my Dad kicks off again! I can not win with either of them at this stage.

I am feeling very lost and frustrated

Thanks everyone for taking the time to pass on some sound advice

Sorry to hear that OP, was it a different issue? He had said he didn't want to discuss it anymore with you, did he go back on that?

vitani

KMM wrote: »

A few days of silence and my Dad kicks off again! I can not win with either of them at this stage.

I am feeling very lost and frustrated

Thanks everyone for taking the time to pass on some sound advice

Can I ask what you mean by 'either of them'? It sounds like you're frustrated with your fiance as well?

KMM

vitani wrote: »

Can I ask what you mean by 'either of them'? It sounds like you're frustrated with your fiance as well?

I am a little to be honest. Just because they are both being as bullheaded as each other on the matter. My Dad thinks he's right, my fiance thinks he's right. Both think they are bullies. You can't get anywhere when people think like that.

Czarcasm

KMM wrote: »

A few days of silence and my Dad kicks off again! I can not win with either of them at this stage.

I am feeling very lost and frustrated

Thanks everyone for taking the time to pass on some sound advice

OP I read through this thread last week and as it had come to the conclusion you wanted, I decided there was no point in adding to the thread. I knew this wasn't the end of it because it sounded like this is more a constant issue for you than just this one off incident.

You're not going to like it but your fiance should be told to cop on. You don't do things like sending your father in law an e-mail which is only set to rise him further. What did you both honestly think that would achieve?

The three of you are as stubborn as each other, but who has the most to lose, and who's left playing piggy in the middle? Your father clearly doesn't care whether you talk to him again or not at this point as long as he thinks he's right, your fiance doesn't care whether your father talks to him again at this point as long as he proves your father wrong and "puts him in his place", and the biggest loser in all this - is YOU, because your loyalty is torn between your pig-headed father and your self-righteous boyfriend. There's a saying that "Men marry their mothers", I'll bet you can guess what I've noticed about some women. Your father and your boyfriend are a personality identikit fit of each other!

What I noticed about my own relationships was that nobody was ever going to be good enough for my parents, but then I had to ask myself "Well, it'd be nice if I had their blessing and if we could all get on, but it's hardly necessary!", so I just decided that I wasn't going to bring my girlfriend with me when I was going to see them (she wasn't too bothered!), but that wasn't enough for my parents who were fixated on painting her in the worst light possible even though they'd only met her a handful of times to say hello, and as bad as you think your father is, he sounds like childsplay compared to the ****e my parents would come out with. So, I made the decision to simply cut them out of my life. They'd been nothing but toxic even though I'd tried to respect them. I still would respect them as my parents, but as people? They didn't deserve my respect.

That's where you are with your father. I would advise that you still respect him as your father, and tell your boyfriend that he has to respect him as your father, but nobody is forcing you to respect him as a person, and so for the sake effectively of your own sanity - bite your respective lips and tell your boyfriend to grow up and stop forcing the issue. This was never about a sat nav or your boyfriend playing backseat driver and using the opportunity to get a side-swipe at your father, this was about you realising that you're no longer a little girl that has to be subservient to her father. You're a big girl now so you're old enough, bold enough and Christ I would hope mature enough to stand up for yourself! You don't need your boyfriend fighting your battles and using every opportunity to get in a dig at your old man.

In my own case, 17 years later my mother kisses my wife's arse, but only because she knows a word out of place and I'm out of there like a hot snot with our son, because I'm not having him exposed to the bitterness and carrying it on for a third generation. My old man died about ten years ago as bitter and twisted as the day he was born (ironically he'd a quad bypass done a couple of years earlier and before he went in for the op he said "all I ever wanted was for you to be happy", I thought maybe this was progress, time to forgive, etc. Two weeks later the crafty old bastard was back to his old self. He was literally only "making his peace" just in case he didn't wake up from the op! In the time between that and when he died, my wife tried to encourage me to go up and see my parents. There was no way I was putting myself through that again, this time it wasn't just for her sake or my parent's sake. It was for MY OWN sake and my own sanity. I wasn't going to put myself through that again.

I still wish, as I'm sure you do OP that I could've had a better relationship with my parents, but when you fly the nest and you move out, you then have to be prepared to make decisions that are going to put people's noses out of joint, and no matter what they mean to you, your first priority has to be to yourself. It's not selfish, it's self-protective, and most people do it on a daily basis without even realising it. It took me a while to learn, and it's going to take you a while to learn, but the only way you can do that is by putting some space between yourself and your father, and telling your boyfriend to button his lip and stop looking for an argument, you're a grown adult who can fight her own battles and stand up for herself.

Bubosw

OP, it sounds like your dad has probably always gotten his own way for the sake of everyone else having a quiet life. His personality sounds quite narcissistic, maybe if look up narcissistic personality disorder, you'll see similar traits in your dad and gain insight on how to deal with this type of person.

Best of luck with the future!

P. Breathnach

KMM wrote: »

I am a little to be honest. Just because they are both being as bullheaded as each other on the matter. My Dad thinks he's right, my fiance thinks he's right. Both think they are bullies. You can't get anywhere when people think like that.

Just tell your fiancé that you accept your father shouting at you and blaming you for things; tell him that he was wrong to interfere; instruct him to apologise to your father.

wirelessdude01

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Just tell your fiancé that you accept your father shouting at you and blaming you for things; tell him that he was wrong to interfere; instruct him to apologise to your father.

Are you serious? Father will ride roughshod over them until he dies then. Have seen it before.

Calhoun

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Are you serious? Father will ride roughshod over them until he dies then. Have seen it before.

I agree with this point and think czarcasm has a valid point, sometimes you cant argue with crazy. Although you may love your parent as an adult you have to make a conscious decision to walk way from them, as trying to make peace or find the middle ground just ends up playing a vicious little game with you inevitably coming out of it badly because you expect to much from people who cannot change.

The only people who can change how this happens in this case is you and your fiance, I personally have made a similar decision to czarcasm and have cut a parent out of my life which has been hard to do. However i cannot let their poisonous attitude impact on my daughter or my wife, if and when they are ready to behave like normal rational adults i may be back in touch but i highly doubt it.

In this case you need to stop the interaction and move away from this, i know it will be hard with the wedding coming up but its time to move on with your life as an adult and not a kid.

ne0ica

OP I have an uncle like your father. My parents and nobody in his family challenged him for years till moi here did and I became the worst person in the world so I sympathize with your fiance. Your situation is a mess. I'm conflicted. On one hand he is your father and you need to respect your elders but on another hand he should not be so pig headed and created conflict with you and your fiance. Sorry I have no advice. Personally I try and and keep as much distance between myself and difficult family members.