BE licence - the test

mullingar

I have applied to sit the car+trailer (BE) test and there seems to be a lot of confusion to what's required regarding the trailer.

I plan to do it in a humble Ford Focus with a towing limit of 1200kg

According to this recent RSA document: Representative vehicles for the driving test from 30 November 2013 version Nov. 2013


The requirement is:

A combination, made up of a Category B test vehicle which should be either (a) a length of at least 4.25 metres, or (b) a 4 wheel drive vehicle, and a trailer with a design gross vehicle weight of
at least 1,400kg., but not exceeding 3,500 kg., capable of a speed of at least 100km/h, which does not fall within Category B. The cargo compartment of the trailer must consist of a permanent,
closed box body which is at least as wide and as high as the motor vehicle, and have a length of at least 2.4 metres. The closed box body may also be slightly less wide than the motor vehicle,
provided that the view to the rear is only possible by use of the external rear-view mirrors of the motor vehicle. The trailer must be presented with a real total mass (the actual weight of the
trailer including the necessary load) of at least 800 kg., having due regard for safety, stability, manufacturer’s guidelines and legal limits of the combination.

OK, that says at least 800kg, great, as I can get a loan of a cattle trailer plated @ 910kg unladen and the Ford Focus is 4.3m long:D

Then this document that usually accompanies driving test confirmation date

RSA - CHECKLIST FOR YOUR DRIVING TEST

Your vehicle must meet the minimum real total mass
requirements - real total mass is the weight of a
vehicle including the load, if any, which is on it.11
The trailer must be presented for the test with a real
total mass of at least 800kg, having due regard for safety,
stability, manufacturer’s guidelines and legal limits of
the combination.
In order to meet the real total mass requirement, you are
required to place 30 four-inch (100 x 220 x 450 mm) solid
concrete building blocks in the trailer. If it is accepted
that a trailer will weigh a minimum of 250kg on its own,
the 30 blocks (each weighing approximately 19-20kg) will
weigh an additional 570kg, which together will exceed
the minimum real total mass requirement of 800kg at
820kg.

Firstly, I'd LOVE to see a DGVW (or MAM) of at least 1400kg covered trailer that weighs only 250kg :rolleyes: as even the smallest Ifor "Box trailer", single axle, plated to a DVGW of 1400kg weighs over 500kg

I got a call from the Driving test centre asking me if I was interested in a cancellation in a few days time, but the operative insisted that the requirements are for have the 30x blocks in the back, regardless of the unladen weight of the trailer, and be fully legal. I explained that I have x2 problems with this, 910kg + 600kg of blocks = 1510kg (300kg too much for the car) and reading their documentation, the blocks are not needed for a plated trailer of this weight.

I asked to be put through to someone who is in the know, seemed very knowledgeable, did state that is is a requirement for the 30 blocks and that its only required to weight a light trailer down to minimum 800kg to exceed the 750kg limit for B licences. But was insisting that the blocks are required to be fair to everyone.

Bottom line is that if I present a 910kg unladen trailer empty - my test will not proceed, yet I met their documented minimum requirements

Anyone else have/had similar difficulties??

Chimaera

If their documented requirements are the 30 blocks in the back then you're not meeting them with an empty trailer. Remember the 800 kg is stated as a minimum.

There was also some talk of requiring trailers with more than one axle to be towed by a 4x4 or van but I can't find any reference to this on the RSA site.

This link gives the licencing requirements for trailers: http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/

Your test will be with a class O2 trailer. This bit of the requirements is quite relevant here:

If you have a Category BE licence, you may:

Tow an O2 trailer, with a vehicle with a DGVW of up to 3.5 tonnes and seating for up to 8 passengers (apart from the driver), provided that the GVW of the trailer does not exceed the manufacturer’s rated towing capacity for the towing vehicle.

That means your towing vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer if it's loaded up to its maximum weight. So your cattle trailer is probably not legal behind the Focus.

mullingar

Chimaera wrote: »

If their documented requirements are the 30 blocks in the back then you're not meeting them with an empty trailer. Remember the 800 kg is stated as a minimum.

But if its read as its written...

The trailer must be presented for the test with a real total mass of at least 800kg

and

In order to meet the real total mass requirement.....

but I already have as it exceeds your "total mass requirement" of 800kg as its 910kg unladen

, you are required to place 30 four-inch.......

Chimaera wrote: »

There was also some talk of requiring trailers with more than one axle to be towed by a 4x4 or van but I can't find any reference to this on the RSA site.

There was, until they changed the rules.

Chimaera wrote: »

This link gives the licencing requirements for trailers: http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/

Your test will be with a class O2 trailer. This bit of the requirements is quite relevant here:


That means your towing vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer if it's loaded up to its maximum weight. So your cattle trailer is probably not legal behind the Focus.

With a BE licence you can tow any trailer with a DGVW of upto 3500kg as long as the actual weight does not exceed the certified towing limit of the car.

With a B licence, you cannot tow a trailer of 3500kg as the B licence is restricted to DGVW car + DGVW trailer is < 3500kg.

CiniO

Are you sure you can tow a trailer with DGVW of 1400kg or more with focus which have towing limit of 1200kg?

Chimaera

mullingar wrote: »

With a BE licence you can tow any trailer with a DGVW of upto 3500kg as long as the actual weight does not exceed the certified towing limit of the car.

With a B licence, you cannot tow a trailer of 3500kg as the B licence is restricted to DGVW car + DGVW trailer is < 3500kg.

Not according to the link I posted earlier from RSA (which refers to the legal requirements for the vehicle+trailer, not the licencing requirements). I'll repeat with emphasis:

If you have a Category BE licence, you may:

Tow an O2 trailer, with a vehicle with a DGVW of up to 3.5 tonnes and seating for up to 8 passengers (apart from the driver), provided that the GVW of the trailer does not exceed the manufacturer’s rated towing capacity for the towing vehicle.

The intent here as I see it would be to ensure your towing vehicle is always capable of towing the trailer, regardless of actual load.

It is confusing that the RSA page uses both DGVW and GVW almost interchangeably though, and they don't provide a reference for the regulations/legislation used.

mullingar

CiniO wrote: »

Are you sure you can tow a trailer with DGVW of 1400kg or more with focus which have towing limit of 1200kg?

Yes.

From here:
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Third%20Directive/Link%208.pdf

Car and Trailer Licences

The rules around the weight of a trailer that a car may draw will depend on a number of factors. A person holding a car licence, category B, can draw a small trailer provided that the trailer has a design gross vehicle weight (DGVW) no greater than 750 kg, and in some cases a heavier trailer, provided the car and trailer combined is not heavier than 3,500kg DGVW. DGVW means the
designed gross weight which the trailer is designed by the manufacturer not to exceed, including the load on it. If you exceed this, you will be required to get a category BE driving licence.

A driver with a car and trailer licence, category BE can draw a trailer where the MAM of the vehicle and trailer combination is greater than 3500kg but less than 7000kg.

A car with a towing capacity of 2000kg can draw a trailer with a plated MAM of 3500kg PROVIDED the combination of the weight of the trailer and any load does not exceed the towing capacity of the car e.g. 2,000kg

So according to that, a Ford Focus with a towing limit of 1200kg can legally tow a trailer with a DesignGVW of 3500kg, but is limited to the GVW of 1200kg (eg a 500kg load PLUS the unladen weight of 700kg).

dantastic

(almost) all O2 trailers are plated at 3,500kg but only a handful cars on the market are plated to tow 3,500kg. So plated in not the main thing to look at here. It's the actual curb weight of the trailer with tow capacity of the tow vehicle.

Read more about the concrete blocks here: http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Third%20Directive/Link%20D%20FAQ%27s%20on%20real%20total%20massV2.pdf
Check the last question, Question 6. It answers your question.
The 30 concrete blocks are required in every case, no matter the unladen weight of the trailer.

Chimaera

So it seems.

mullingar

dantastic wrote: »

(almost) all O2 trailers are plated at 3,500kg but only a handful cars on the market are plated to tow 3,500kg. So plated in not the main thing to look at here. It's the actual curb weight of the trailer with tow capacity of the tow vehicle.

Read more about the concrete blocks here: http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Third%20Directive/Link%20D%20FAQ%27s%20on%20real%20total%20massV2.pdf
Check the last question, Question 6. It answers your question.
The 30 concrete blocks are required in every case, no matter the unladen weight of the trailer.

BE (Car and trailer)
The trailer must be presented with a real total mass (the
actual weight of the trailer including the necessary load) of at
least 800kg, having due regard for safety, stability,
manufacturer’s guidelines and legal limits of the
combination.
For these categories, in every case, irrespective of the weight
of the trailer unladen, the trailer must be presented with a
load of 30 four inch (100 x 220 x 450mm) solid concrete
building blocks (see Figure 2 below), to ensure that it meets
minimum real total mass requirements for the test (real total
mass is the actual weight of the trailer including the necessary load), having due regard for safety, stability,
manufacturer’s guidelines and legal limits of the
combination.

Thanks for that it is quite clear there. Its a pity they dont make it clear on the main published documentation.

Stavros Murphy

Someone needs to start hiring out concrete blocks.

ubs69

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Someone needs to start hiring out concrete blocks.

Just leave them at the test centre :cool:

Stavros Murphy

ubs69 wrote: »

Just leave them at the test centre :cool:

Through the windows if you fail?

Green farmer

Talk to a driving instructor. I did my BE test last year, just before new weight rules came in, 20 years after originally passing my b licence, needed to tow trailer legally. I got 2 refresher lesions before test. I had a 4 wheel drive but had to rent a trailer from indespension, I think cost me €40. They have trailers especially for the test specification. I cannt see them allowing you to do test in focus but driving instruction will advise you correctly and may have a suitable vehicle that you can hire for test.i think guys were also using IBC tanks filled with water to get weights right as well.

juniord

Green farmer wrote: »

Talk to a driving instructor. I did my BE test last year, just before new weight rules came in, 20 years after originally passing my b licence, needed to tow trailer legally. I got 2 refresher lesions before test. I had a 4 wheel drive but had to rent a trailer from indespension, I think cost me €40. They have trailers especially for the test specification. I cannt see them allowing you to do test in focus but driving instruction will advise you correctly and may have a suitable vehicle that you can hire for test.i think guys were also using IBC tanks filled with water to get weights right as well.

if you had a b license 20 years last year i think you could have gotten a BE without a further test

juniord

just checked that , and it only applies to full license holders from 13 nov 1989 and older, my bad

Green farmer

juniord wrote: »

just checked that , and it only applies to full license holders from 13 nov 1989 and older, my bad

Ya, I checked it out also and wasn't a happy camper to have to do the test again after so long after my original test. They even made me do the theory test as it wasn't even invested when I got the b licence years ago. Just one of those things in life that you have to do sometimes, but on the bright side, you've peace of mind driving around with everything in order in case of accident or cops checking !!!

Chimaera

It's never any harm to have a refresher on these things anyway

mullingar

Green farmer wrote: »

I cannt see them allowing you to do test in focus

.

Yes you can

The rules in a nutshell:

-Car must be
A) longer than 4.25m in a 2wd vehicle or any length 4x4. (The Focus is 4.3m)
manufacturer certified to tow the combined weight of trailer + test load.

-The trailer must
A) have a DGVW of minimum 1400kg
be covered,
C) be at least same height as vehicle and "nearly" as wide
D) be minimum 2.4m long inside
E) be loaded with 600kg of blocks


I could (just barely) legally present in a Focus which has a towing limit of 1200kg if I presented with a glass-fibre walled/roofed box-trailer type with a DGVW of 1400kg, stamped with an unladen weight of 520kg (Ifor Williams type) plus the 600 kg test load, total 1120kg.

Green farmer

mullingar wrote: »

.

Yes you can

More power to you if you can get away with it !!!

bugsntinas

Green farmer wrote: »

Talk to a driving instructor. I did my BE test last year, just before new weight rules came in, 20 years after originally passing my b licence, needed to tow trailer legally. I got 2 refresher lesions before test. I had a 4 wheel drive but had to rent a trailer from indespension, I think cost me €40. They have trailers especially for the test specification. I cannt see them allowing you to do test in focus but driving instruction will advise you correctly and may have a suitable vehicle that you can hire for test.i think guys were also using IBC tanks filled with water to get weights right as well.

how hard is the test and theory?

Green farmer

Their both ok. Buy the cd for the theory test and practice it over and over for a week or two and it's relatively easy. The driving test is identical to the b test except you've the trailer on the back. No 3 point turn is the only difference and you've to reverse around the corner with the trailer attached which can be abit awkward.biggest thing to me was bad habits I picked up through years.

ubs69

So you have to collect trailer which you have no licence for , drive it back if you fail , ohh and get someone who has a full trailer licence to go with you , I wonder if the instructor has a full licence for a trailer

mullingar

ubs69 wrote: »

So you have to collect trailer which you have no licence for , drive it back if you fail , ohh and get someone who has a full trailer licence to go with you , I wonder if the instructor has a full licence for a trailer

Your 'cough' accompanied BE licensed passenger has to accompany you to/from(if you fail) the test centre. They can, cough, wait around while you do the test.

And yes, the tester has to have a licence for the test he is examining.

ubs69

Would an ifor williams 10x5 tipper with mesh sides be suitable trailer to do the test with