Diesel autos 08/09 Superb/XFs and alternatives

Old diesel

Would value the thoughts of all of you here on the forum on the above.

My brother is thinking of possibly buying a diesel automatic - around 08/09 type era.

Hes interested in the Superb 2.0 TDI 170 and the 2.7 diesel XF.

Different class of car I know - but that's the 2 hes thinking off at the moment.

Would be interested in your thoughts on either of these 2 cars - and indeed potential alternatives like the A6.

Hes coming from an LS 430 - so is used to driving a nice car.

bazz26

While the Superb is a good all-rounder, as you know the XF is in a different league. 3.0 litre diesel in the XF is a lot better than the older 2.7 litre it replaced. 3.0 litre is also more powerful, reliable, more fuel efficient and cheaper to tax. They were introduced towards the end of 2009. XF is fairly rare on the road too which is another good reason to buy one imo.

Alternative would be a BMW 530d/535d but post 2007 ones are thin on the ground.

Old diesel

bazz26 wrote: »

While the Superb is a good all-rounder, as you know the XF is in a different league. 3.0 litre diesel in the XF is a lot better than the older 2.7 litre it replaced. 3.0 litre is also more powerful, reliable, more fuel efficient and cheaper to tax. They were introduced towards the end of 2009. XF is fairly rare on the road too which is another good reason to buy one imo.

Alternative would be a BMW 530d/535d but post 2007 ones are thin on the ground.

Yes I was thinking the 3.0 would be a better option then the 2.7.

Certainly the XF is in a different class to the Superb - and as you say in a different league.

Hes weary of Jag reliability though - and hes used to hassle free Lexus motoring. Im also hoping some of the tales of woe im reading about the 2.7 engine aren't widespread issues - or at the very least don't affect the 3.0s.

BMWs a good call - but hes had one before which gave him a bit of hassle in the short time he had it.


He does like the look of the current 5 series though - but he figures if he comes that new - he might as well just have the new model GS 450 h

Old diesel

Thanks for the reply Bazz 26 much appreciated - can't seem to get the thanks button working.

ninty9er

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/280-Cdi,/39113908440514430/advert?channel=CARS

Old diesel

ninty9er wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/280-Cdi,/39113908440514430/advert?channel=CARS

Nice cars - and I know the post 06 models addressed issues of earlier W211s.

bazz26

Presume he is not doing big mileage given his current bus so what about the GS450H?


http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Lexus/GS450H/GS-450H/39113920372516300/

Old diesel

bazz26 wrote: »

Presume he is not doing big mileage given his current bus so what about the GS450H?


http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Lexus/GS450H/GS-450H/39113920372516300/

That's a very nice looking bus.

Not sure of his current mileage - but he does do quite a bit with his commute to work and normal driving around etc.

rai555

For this money you have to go to UK for GS450h , thinking about it

Stealthirl

I am contemplating the same myself.
I rented an XF from Hertz and felt let down by it. It felt small/cramped inside,had a feeling of cheapness about the switch gear ect
Drove a friends Superb and thought there was lots of room and a very soft/comfy ride with lots of gear [UK elegance trim]
I am also thinking of an A6 TDi170/TDie140 in UK S-Line or Le Mans spec as i like a harder/sportier ride

Old diesel

Stealthirl wrote: »

I am contemplating the same myself.
I rented an XF from Hertz and felt let down by it. It felt small/cramped inside,had a feeling of cheapness about the switch gear ect
Drove a friends Superb and thought there was lots of room and a very soft/comfy ride with lots of gear [UK elegance trim]
I am also thinking of an A6 TDi170/TDie140 in UK S-Line or Le Mans spec as i like a harder/sportier ride

Nice one thanks for the input - much appreciated.

jimgoose

The Jaguar all day and all night. Nothing else comes close, and particularly not a bloody Skoda. A mate of mine made that mistake a couple of years back - he chopped in a 2002 Mercedes-Benz S320 for a 2011 Superb, and has been kicking himself up the arse since. It is true that the newer 3.0 Jag diesel is superior to the older 2.7, but the 2.7 is a fine engine as well.

Old diesel

jimgoose wrote: »

The Jaguar all day and all night. Nothing else comes close, and particularly not a bloody Skoda. A mate of mine made that mistake a couple of years back - he chopped in a 2002 Mercedes-Benz S320 for a 2011 Superb, and has been kicking himself up the arse since. It is true that the newer 3.0 Jag diesel is superior to the older 2.7, but the 2.7 is a fine engine as well.

Im hoping the 170 tdi won't be a HUGE drop down from the LS 430 - but of course it will be a trade down when one is used to a 4.3 v8.

Not sure how the Jag will hold up reliability wise - my brothers used to faultless Lexus reliability.

Would hate to buy one and then be landed with a massive bill you wouldn't get on a GOOD* Lexus.

3.0 definitely looks like the one to have in terms of Jag XF diesels - even if it meant waiting for a while for it to come within budget.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies

*ie not a 220d IS

tw0nk

Hi OP, just some feedback on the GS450h

I just bought one last week, so my comments are from a research before buying perspective coupled with a week of ownership and driving.

Looks:
I really like the look of the car, its slightly sporty with rear lip spoiler 18" alloys and some nice subtle curves.

Inside:
This is a very comfortable and technologically advanced place to be, a subset of the features mine came with:
- Heated and cooled leather electric memory seats (both driver and front passenger)
- Touch screen Satnav (dvd based so can upgrade to 2013/2014 maps for 70 quid)
- Reversing camera with wheel turn overlay (shows you where you will end up based on wheel position)
- 6 disc DVD player (also plays mp3 cds)
- Bluetooth phone
- Dual climate control
- Parking sensors front and back
- Auto lights, wipers and auto anti-glare mirrors (rear and side)
- Auto rear-window blind
- Keyless entry and push button start

Bootspace:
- Fits 1 (2 at extreme push) sets of golf clubs, including driver but thats it, a lot of boot space is taken up by batteries

Performance:
- This car is ridiculously fast for its size, sub 6 second 0-60 and the acceleration is smooth due to the electric motor filling in gaps between auto gear changes.

Handling:
- Handling is ok, not as responsive as BMW (my last car was a z4, extremely responsive). Its great for motorway driving or slow in-traffic driving, country roads are ok, but cant push it due to feeling a little boaty on country bends.

Parking:
- Parking is easy as pie due to the sensors and camera, its a big car but these aids make it very simple

Fuel economy:
- Pretty awful it has to be said, on a motorway journey with heated seats on I was averaging 10L/100Km but when you put the foot down it drops v.quickly. I cant imagine the economy on then on-hybrid models.

Summary:
I love this car, test drove a lot of other cars before picking it. I wanted something spacious, after coming from Z4, comfortable, quick and filled with gadgets. It delivers on all this and I would encourage you to test drive one before picking your final car. I test drove both the GS300 and the GS450h, once I drive the 450h the 300 was dead to me. Other cars I was considering were: A6, 530 and CLS.

Hope that helps.

jimgoose

Old diesel wrote: »

Im hoping the 170 tdi won't be a HUGE drop down from the LS 430 - but of course it will be a trade down when one is used to a 4.3 v8.

Not sure how the Jag will hold up reliability wise - my brothers used to faultless Lexus reliability.

Would hate to buy one and then be landed with a massive bill you wouldn't get on a GOOD* Lexus.

3.0 definitely looks like the one to have in terms of Jag XF diesels - even if it meant waiting for a while for it to come within budget.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies

It's water-pump time for a lot of the 2.7d S-Types (same engine, since 2003) on the road, apparently it's soft in 'em. Get that sorted and they're pretty solid.

Old diesel

tw0nk wrote: »

Hi OP, just some feedback on the GS450h

I just bought one last week, so my comments are from a research before buying perspective coupled with a week of ownership and driving.

Looks:
I really like the look of the car, its slightly sporty with rear lip spoiler 18" alloys and some nice subtle curves.

Inside:
This is a very comfortable and technologically advanced place to be, a subset of the features mine came with:
- Heated and cooled leather electric memory seats (both driver and front passenger)
- Touch screen Satnav (dvd based so can upgrade to 2013/2014 maps for 70 quid)
- Reversing camera with wheel turn overlay (shows you where you will end up based on wheel position)
- 6 disc DVD player (also plays mp3 cds)
- Bluetooth phone
- Dual climate control
- Parking sensors front and back
- Auto lights, wipers and auto anti-glare mirrors (rear and side)
- Auto rear-window blind
- Keyless entry and push button start

Bootspace:
- Fits 1 (2 at extreme push) sets of golf clubs, including driver but thats it, a lot of boot space is taken up by batteries

Performance:
- This car is ridiculously fast for its size, sub 6 second 0-60 and the acceleration is smooth due to the electric motor filling in gaps between auto gear changes.

Handling:
- Handling is ok, not as responsive as BMW (my last car was a z4, extremely responsive). Its great for motorway driving or slow in-traffic driving, country roads are ok, but cant push it due to feeling a little boaty on country bends.

Parking:
- Parking is easy as pie due to the sensors and camera, its a big car but these aids make it very simple

Fuel economy:
- Pretty awful it has to be said, on a motorway journey with heated seats on I was averaging 10L/100Km but when you put the foot down it drops v.quickly. I cant imagine the economy on then on-hybrid models.

Summary:
I love this car, test drove a lot of other cars before picking it. I wanted something spacious, after coming from Z4, comfortable, quick and filled with gadgets. It delivers on all this and I would encourage you to test drive one before picking your final car. I test drove both the GS300 and the GS450h, once I drive the 450h the 300 was dead to me. Other cars I was considering were: A6, 530 and CLS.

Hope that helps.

Nice one thanks a million for the feedback

Old diesel

Has anyone had experience of the powershift simi auto gearbox on the 2.0 tdci Mondeo.

Possibly not sold here - but ive seen 2 Mondeos in the Uk online today with that particular gearbox.

Is the powershift completely hopeless???

Revenue on line doesn't seem to realise the Hatchback model exists in 2010 model year - best VRT calculation I could do was on the Estate version - wheras the cars I seen (via twitter) were hatchbacks - and even at that - only on the titanium X rather then the Titanium (without an X) I was looking at online

What happens in that scenario???.

Possibly a bit academic as a DSG 170 tdi Superb would probably be better anyway - but am I missing something good with the Mondeo without realising it.

R.O.R

Old diesel wrote: »

Has anyone had experience of the powershift simi auto gearbox on the 2.0 tdci Mondeo.

Possibly not sold here - but ive seen 2 Mondeos in the Uk online today with that particular gearbox.

Is the powershift completely hopeless???

Revenue on line doesn't seem to realise the Hatchback model exists in 2010 model year - best VRT calculation I could do was on the Estate version - wheras the cars I seen (via twitter) were hatchbacks - and even at that - only on the titanium X rather then the Titanium (without an X) I was looking at online

What happens in that scenario???.

Possibly a bit academic as a DSG 170 tdi Superb would probably be better anyway - but am I missing something good with the Mondeo without realising it.

The Powershift is a very good autobox. Not quite up to DSG standards, but not far off it performance wise. No idea what it's like in manual mode - never bothered, but decent performer in full auto.

Not the most efficient I seem to remember though, so high tax and high VRT if you are bringing one in.

I'm surprised the hatch isn't listed on the Revenue website - they don't sell the 4dr Saloon in the UK!

Odyssey 2005

I have a 09 superb 2.0 170hp. While it's not auto it has been faultless over the past 5 years. 270 k and still going like a mouses heart.

Old diesel

R.O.R wrote: »

The Powershift is a very good autobox. Not quite up to DSG standards, but not far off it performance wise. No idea what it's like in manual mode - never bothered, but decent performer in full auto.

Not the most efficient I seem to remember though, so high tax and high VRT if you are bringing one in.

I'm surprised the hatch isn't listed on the Revenue website - they don't sell the 4dr Saloon in the UK!

It may be there - ROS was playing up when I was trying to select the transmission (but worked eventually) - so possibly if I try again - the hatch may pop up.

What is the Tax on the powershift??? - with one of the cars I looked at the emissions were down as 149 g/km - although of course that may not be the correct figure. It was a 140 though - not the 161 if that makes a difference

I realise that the Superb and its DSG box is probably a better purchase - but its interesting to see what the Mondeo has to offer.

They (Mondeos) have a very good rep in terms of been nice to drive - which if it lived up to those expectations for my brother - might counteract the downgrade in car from the big V8 to a diesel.

Thanks for the reply - much appreciated

ninty9er

Old diesel wrote: »

Has anyone had experience of the powershift simi auto gearbox on the 2.0 tdci Mondeo.

Possibly not sold here - but ive seen 2 Mondeos in the Uk online today with that particular gearbox.

Is the powershift completely hopeless???
.

Assuming it's the same transmission they have coupled to the 2l Galaxy it's a fantastic auto, not bad in tip tonic, but fiddly unless you're used to it.

650Ginge

Old diesel wrote: »

It may be there - ROS was playing up when I was trying to select the transmission (but worked eventually) - so possibly if I try again - the hatch may pop up.

What is the Tax on the powershift??? - with one of the cars I looked at the emissions were down as 149 g/km - although of course that may not be the correct figure. It was a 140 though - not the 161 if that makes a difference

I realise that the Superb and its DSG box is probably a better purchase - but its interesting to see what the Mondeo has to offer.

They (Mondeos) have a very good rep in terms of been nice to drive - which if it lived up to those expectations for my brother - might counteract the downgrade in car from the big V8 to a diesel.

Thanks for the reply - much appreciated

Can't believe we are talking about Mondeos and 2.7/3.0 XF's in the same thread.

GS450H too v Mondeo…wtf?

Old diesel

650Ginge wrote: »

Can't believe we are talking about Mondeos and 2.7/3.0 XF's in the same thread.

GS450H too v Mondeo…wtf?

Not really sure what harm its doing though - the reality is my brother is considering cars from 2 different classes - the Superb and the XF.

So obviously not only do I want to look at XF and Superb since that's what his thinking of at the moment but also look at alternatives to both - he is considering a diesel auto - and if you want a large one like he does - you've got the option of Superb/Mondeo size - or potentially XF/5 series etc type of car.

To me its no different to someone wondering about should they go for a Golf or a Passat size car

mickdw

tw0nk wrote: »

Hi OP, just some feedback on the GS450h

I just bought one last week, so my comments are from a research before buying perspective coupled with a week of ownership and driving.

Looks:
I really like the look of the car, its slightly sporty with rear lip spoiler 18" alloys and some nice subtle curves.

Inside:
This is a very comfortable and technologically advanced place to be, a subset of the features mine came with:
- Heated and cooled leather electric memory seats (both driver and front passenger)
- Touch screen Satnav (dvd based so can upgrade to 2013/2014 maps for 70 quid)
- Reversing camera with wheel turn overlay (shows you where you will end up based on wheel position)
- 6 disc DVD player (also plays mp3 cds)
- Bluetooth phone
- Dual climate control
- Parking sensors front and back
- Auto lights, wipers and auto anti-glare mirrors (rear and side)
- Auto rear-window blind
- Keyless entry and push button start

Bootspace:
- Fits 1 (2 at extreme push) sets of golf clubs, including driver but thats it, a lot of boot space is taken up by batteries

Performance:
- This car is ridiculously fast for its size, sub 6 second 0-60 and the acceleration is smooth due to the electric motor filling in gaps between auto gear changes.

Handling:
- Handling is ok, not as responsive as BMW (my last car was a z4, extremely responsive). Its great for motorway driving or slow in-traffic driving, country roads are ok, but cant push it due to feeling a little boaty on country bends.

Parking:
- Parking is easy as pie due to the sensors and camera, its a big car but these aids make it very simple

Fuel economy:
- Pretty awful it has to be said, on a motorway journey with heated seats on I was averaging 10L/100Km but when you put the foot down it drops v.quickly. I cant imagine the economy on then on-hybrid models.

Summary:
I love this car, test drove a lot of other cars before picking it. I wanted something spacious, after coming from Z4, comfortable, quick and filled with gadgets. It delivers on all this and I would encourage you to test drive one before picking your final car. I test drove both the GS300 and the GS450h, once I drive the 450h the 300 was dead to me. Other cars I was considering were: A6, 530 and CLS.

Hope that helps.

I tried or a gs 450h a couple of years back. Lovely car but couldn't live with one.
Not enough feel in it for a very powerful rear drove car.
Also the fake 'gears' as programmed for manual use are a joke.
Just to clarify, the electric power doesn't smooth out the gear changes. There are no gear changes. It's a cvt set up meaning the engine is kept at optimum revs.
Very very powerful car though and would embarrass alot of stuff in a straight line at least. Behaves very well on 18 inch wheels even on poor surfaces

HandsomeDan

What's the tax on an '07 GS450H?

Will it read mp3 DVDs aswell as CDs?

mickdw

HandsomeDan wrote: »

What's the tax on an '07 GS450H?

Will it read mp3 DVDs aswell as CDs?

Max rate tax on cc system so musty be 1800 or so.
08 models are 750 so 07 cars are badly hit.

HandsomeDan

mickdw wrote: »

Max rate tax on cc system so musty be 1800 or so.
08 models are 750 so 07 cars are badly hit.

no concessions for hybrids?

Old diesel

HandsomeDan wrote: »

no concessions for hybrids?

there was a concession on the VRT back in the 07 period when buying the GS 450 h new back then - but the road tax is still the 1800 rate sadly - as far as I know

Stealthirl

jimgoose wrote: »

The Jaguar all day and all night. Nothing else comes close, and particularly not a bloody Skoda. A mate of mine made that mistake a couple of years back - he chopped in a 2002 Mercedes-Benz S320 for a 2011 Superb, and has been kicking himself up the arse since. It is true that the newer 3.0 Jag diesel is superior to the older 2.7, but the 2.7 is a fine engine as well.

Don't get me wrong the Jaaag is a fantastic looking car. But i always believe a new owner should drive all the cars he is interested in before narrowing it down to 1 model.
Some garage's/sellers are very cooperative when asked if u mind takeing the car for a long test drive rather then just around the block

Old diesel

Stealthirl wrote: »

Don't get me wrong the Jaaag is a fantastic looking car. But i always believe a new owner should drive all the cars he is interested in before narrowing it down to 1 model.
Some garage's/sellers are very cooperative when asked if u mind takeing the car for a long test drive rather then just around the block

Absolutely - test drives will reveal all.

Theres no doubt the Jag is a fine looking car - but at the same time - the Superb is also a VERY good car - and should do what my brother wants from it.

The question of course is bearing in mind his current car - would the Jag do the job even better.

For most a Jag 3.0 diesel WILL be a nicer car then a 2.0 tdi 170 Superb - but id have expected the Superb to be more reliable.

Reliability will be a big factor - as I think he expects that whatever he drives next will be step down as he REALLY likes his Lexus.

And the Lexus does have him spoiled for reliability.

It is the risk you take with a modern diesel - and that's the risk hes going to have to decide if hes willing to take.

jimgoose

Old diesel wrote: »

...the Superb is also a VERY good car - and should do what my brother wants from it.

The question of course is bearing in mind his current car - would the Jag do the job even better.

For most a Jag 3.0 diesel WILL be a nicer car then a 2.0 tdi 170 Superb - but id have expected the Superb to be more reliable...

You'd be surprised - forget everything you know about the old "British Leyland" Jags!

Another thing - unless I'm mistaken, the LS430 is a V8, right? So that's going to be an even bigger come-down to the rather pedestrian four-pot diesel in the Skoda than in the case of my mate who chopped in a 2002 Mercedes S320 for one a couple of years ago. At least with the 3.0l XF he'd only be losing two cylinders. It makes a big difference.

Old diesel

jimgoose wrote: »

You'd be surprised - forget everything you know about the old "British Leyland" Jags!

Another thing - unless I'm mistaken, the LS430 is a V8, right? So that's going to be an even bigger come-down to the rather pedestrian four-pot diesel in the Skoda than in the case of my mate who chopped in a 2002 Mercedes S320 for one a couple of years ago. At least with the 3.0l XF he'd only be losing two cylinders. It makes a big difference.

Your right - XF should be much less of a step down - and as you correctly point out the LS 430 is a V8 - so a 3.0 6 cylinder diesel is less of a step down.

And yes modern Jags have a reputation for been a lot more reliable than older ones - but one still hears of issues.

Its a case of establishing how widespread those are - for example - I read a sad tale of an XJ 2.7 diesel with a destroyed engine at 60 k miles - and it was apparently a Jaguar enthusiast owned car and immaculately serviced.

Apparently there was a bit of a design flaw on the 2.7 - which I can't think of off the top of my head - and that caused that failure.

I think ive also read that on S types with 2.7 diesel AND dpfs - these seem to have a similar issue what Mazdas have had with the DPF - ie diesel and oil mixing.

Seems to be that the DPF works similar - and thus similar issues

I don't think its anything like as common on the Jag as it is with the Mazda - but im not sure how widespread it is - and maybe the reason its not heard of more on the Jags - is that (presumably) there was more Mazda diesels sold than Jag S types.

So the question is - how common are the issues - and what is Jag diesel reliability - and general Jaguar reliability like on the XF model.

I know the 3.0 diesel is suppose to be better for reliability than the 2.7s - must go and do more homework on the whole thing I think.

Thank you very much for your input

jimgoose

Old diesel wrote: »

Your right - XF should be much less of a step down - and as you correctly point out the LS 430 is a V8 - so a 3.0 6 cylinder diesel is less of a step down.

And yes modern Jags have a reputation for been a lot more reliable than older ones - but one still hears of issues.

Its a case of establishing how widespread those are - for example - I read a sad tale of an XJ 2.7 diesel with a destroyed engine at 60 k miles - and it was apparently a Jaguar enthusiast owned car and immaculately serviced.

Apparently there was a bit of a design flaw on the 2.7 - which I can't think of off the top of my head - and that caused that failure.

I think ive also read that on S types with 2.7 diesel AND dpfs - these seem to have a similar issue what Mazdas have had with the DPF - ie diesel and oil mixing.

Seems to be that the DPF works similar - and thus similar issues

I don't think its anything like as common on the Jag as it is with the Mazda - but im not sure how widespread it is - and maybe the reason its not heard of more on the Jags - is that (presumably) there was more Mazda diesels sold than Jag S types.

So the question is - how common are the issues - and what is Jag diesel reliability - and general Jaguar reliability like on the XF model.

I know the 3.0 diesel is suppose to be better for reliability than the 2.7s - must go and do more homework on the whole thing I think.

Thank you very much for your input

Mmm. The main thing with them seems to be a duff EGR valve design. See here:

http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/diesel-variants-all-models-52/serious-warning-about-2-7-diesel-engine-49261/