Are green lasers illegal in ireland for airsoft

mark.1

just wondering are green lasers illegal in ireland for airsoft?
thanks.

lillian2608

No. Keep it less than 5 to 10 mw power and don't point them at helicopters or air planes. Or any one else outside of a skirmish.

mark.1

lillian2608 wrote: »

No. Keep it less than 5 to 10 mw power and don't point them at helicopters or air planes. Or any one else outside of a skirmish.

Thanks mate, I appreciate it

mark.1

So this isnt illegal ?

sliabh

mark.1 wrote: »

just wondering are green lasers illegal in ireland for airsoft?
thanks.

Contrary to what was posted earlier, they are illegal. Irish regs state they have to be red and they have to be less than 5mw in power.

mark.1

sliabh wrote: »

Contrary to what was posted earlier, they are illegal. Irish regs state they have to be red and they have to be less than 5mw in power.

But that green one I screenshoted is under 5mw. Is it still illegal ?

sliabh

mark.1 wrote: »

But that green one I screenshoted is under 5mw. Is it still illegal ?

The two criteria that are used are the power output, and the wavelength (which determines the colour).

The Irish regulations (they are reg not laws on this) only permit laser pointers in the red range (around 650nm in wavelength). And the rule used to be over 5mW is restricted to those with special safety equipment (like key locks on the laser) and licensed users. But I think that 1mW is the limit that is used these days.

So it has to be red, and it has to be <1mW

mark.1

sliabh wrote: »

The two criteria that are used are the power output, and the wavelength (which determines the colour).

The Irish regulations (they are reg not laws on this) only permit laser pointers in the red range (around 650nm in wavelength). And the rule used to be over 5mW is restricted to those with special safety equipment (like key locks on the laser) and licensed users. But I think that 1mW is the limit that is used these days.

So it has to be red, and it has to be <1mW

Thanks, theres no point in getting one then

Kashkai

Let me put it this way, I ordered a 5MW green laser from Airsoftpeak last year along with some other bits and pieces. When it failed to show up after three weeks, I contacted An Post who told me Customs had seized the parcel. I rang Customs and they said that green lasers are illegal in this country "because they could bring down planes if shone in a pilot's eyes" and they were going to destroy ALL the contents of the parcel. I sent them several examples of green lasers on sale in Ireland and their response was that if I didn't consent to the seizure of my goods, they would prosecute me.

I let it go at that and had to accept that all my goods were now confiscated.

In short, stick to red lasers and buy them here or you could end up losing your money.

mark.1

Kashkai wrote: »

Let me put it this way, I ordered a 5MW green laser from Airsoftpeak last year along with some other bits and pieces. When it failed to show up after three weeks, I contacted An Post who told me Customs had seized the parcel. I rang Customs and they said that green lasers are illegal in this country "because they could bring down planes if shone in a pilot's eyes" and they were going to destroy ALL the contents of the parcel. I sent them several examples of green lasers on sale in Ireland and their response was that if I didn't consent to the seizure of my goods, they would prosecute me.

I let it go at that and had to accept that all my goods were now confiscated.

In short, stick to red lasers and buy them here or you could end up losing your money.

Wow thats bad form.i think I just wont buy one then

NakedDex

Kashkai wrote: »

Let me put it this way, I ordered a 5MW green laser

A 5MW laser would be capable of bringing down quite a few aircraft by punching a hole through the side... Careful with the shift key; there's a million-fold difference between mW and MW.

CpcRc

NakedDex wrote: »

A 5MW laser would be capable of bringing down quite a few aircraft by punching a hole through the side... Careful with the shift key; there's a million-fold difference between mW and MW.

Don't you mean billion? We're taking a jump from 10^-3 to 10^6. Although if someone invented a 5MW laser that was portable with a small energy source I would question their supplier before their grammar. Laser rifles could be a reality

Kashkai

MW v mW

Oh very good. Glad you picked me up on that. I stand corrected, even though I'm currently sitting.

I was just trying to warn the guy off importing a green laser and losing his money in the process. But if you feel all better now that you've shown your undoubted superior knowledge, then I guess I've helped out more people than I originally thought.

sliabh

MegaWatt size laser: Boeing Yal-1


You are probably lucky it was seized, the fuel bills alone would have bankrupted you!

CpcRc

sliabh wrote: »

MegaWatt size laser: Boeing Yal-1


You are probably lucky it was seized, the fuel bills alone would have bankrupted you!

And you would need a new garage

NakedDex

Kashkai wrote: »

MW v mW

Oh very good. Glad you picked me up on that. I stand corrected, even though I'm currently sitting.

I was just trying to warn the guy off importing a green laser and losing his money in the process. But if you feel all better now that you've shown your undoubted superior knowledge, then I guess I've helped out more people than I originally thought.

You may have missed the joke, here...


Yeah, billion is correct. My brain is fried once a month by a transition shift. I try to make as few monetary transactions in this time as possible, lest I bankrupt myself buying Arduino boards.

mooneyd

DERP.... Wish I spotted this before I bought my new lazer

lillian2608

mooneyd wrote: »

DERP.... Wish I spotted this before I bought my new lazer

Fair enufski... My original reply was based on having been lased by some twat in a 4X through a rain covered motorcycle visor at night. And by a lag in Portlaoise prison while on a night helicopter flight. The police were given the car reg and confiscated the laser a couple of days later but couldn't prosecute sure to him having broken no law they could find. Not sure about the prisoner as 'interfering with the safety of an aircraft' is a valid charge but I was never asked to provide a statement. Probs too much hassle to prosecute. These were both a few years ago so I'm glad someone brought in some controls. Are they SI or regs?

sliabh

lillian2608 wrote: »

Are they SI or regs?

Having done a lot of digging here and been unable to find any SI, I am guessing they are regs.

lillian2608

sliabh wrote: »

Having done a lot of digging here and been unable to find any SI, I am guessing they are regs.

I can only find the SI from health and safety 176/2010 which seems to apply to employers and you would need a physics degree to interpret. Revenue have nothing on their list and there are Irish sites selling them openly. I can see why site operators might be wary of them as I would not have the first idea of how to calculate exposure rates from the information on the SI but it would certainly seem that 5mW is unlikely to cause damage in any visible wavelength with exposure times of less than 100s which is also taken as the max time for the eye to remain open while exposed. I have seen 300 mW 932nM lasers in the army that were used as IR pointers for NVG and those could light matches and melt plastic at close range. Even more dangerous was the IZLID. That was a 1.5W beast used as pointer and IR illuminator for door gunners. Both of those had safety interlocks. Without a clear SI, I can't see how customs are saying that they are illegal. Regs are only guidelines and can always be challenged. Personally I think anything over 1mW and in any colour than red should be banned unless you can show just cause. I use a 5mW red pointer every day at work but that is justifiable. There is too much chance of abuse of the biguns with aircraft and helicopters and motorists.

Drachnien

I'll be honest I've searched for this over the years and NEVER once have I been able to find actual laws on lasers in Ireland. it's been talked about but nothing ever seemed to come of it. It seems like the boards rule comes from an IAA advisory on what should be allowed rather than actual law (and as it's enforced on most sites it's as good as for our purposes).

If anyone can find an actual piece of Irish law I'd love to see it cause believe me I've searched. I'm not advocating the use of anything outside the guidelines but if they are guidelines and site rules I'd prefer to see them explained as such rather than being called illegal.

What I WILL say is that using any laser irresponsibly could be a crime, if your use of a laser at a skirmish causes injury it could even be considered.

sliabh

Drachnien wrote: »

I'll be honest I've searched for this over the years and NEVER once have I been able to find actual laws on lasers in Ireland.

There won't be a specific law as such. Instead the government statutory instrument (SI) sets up a body who have legal clout to ban/approve things. In Ireland that is the Health and Safety Authority (www.hsa.ie). Quite often they will take most of their guidance from Europe, though they may be behind or ahead in specific areas.

Laser safety standards in Europe are covered by IEC 60825-1. That covers classification of lasers recommendations for PPE etc. It was implemented int

Associated with it are guidelines on legal/regulatory requirements for equipment classified at each level. It a while since I looked at this so I don't have the links to hand, but what I saw was requirements for particular levels of training/certification to use particular lasers, safety equipment like key locks (on lasers over 100mw IIRC), and of course restrictions on sales.

Drachnien

I know the SI's alright, by them we should be using class 2M and belw which you can get all visible colors in and would actually have a LOWER output that most people say is legal (Class 2M is 400nm- 700nm and <1mW)

Skerries

I want a purple Lightsaber like Mace Windu!

mooneyd

My green lazer arrived today declared to its exact spec and titles as a rifle lazer.

Its bright maybe a little too bright.
But looks epic

mooneyd

http://www.irishairsoft.ie/lasers-a-response-from-the-doj/ from the gardai and iaa.

Drachnien

yeah so it is based on the old IAA advice rather than actual law.

mooneyd

Are venues outright banning green lasers?

Drachnien

most I've been to do (with a few exceptions) I've personally no issue with it though to be honest all bar 2 of mine are red anyway :P.

Dogwatch

mooneyd wrote: »

http://www.irishairsoft.ie/lasers-a-response-from-the-doj/ from the gardai and iaa.

This would seem to indicate that green lasers are outside the permitted wavelengths.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Commercial_laser_lines.svg/2000px-Commercial_laser_lines.svg.png

Drachnien

you mean wavelegnths permitted by most sites ? then yes. hence most sites not allowing them.
As I said though most sites stick to that to be safe and it's not really a bad thing though I'd like to see the rules dropped to 1mW rather than 5mW personally as a 5mW laser can be a hazard if it's shone in your eye. All my lasers for airsoft are <1mW personally.

Dogwatch

if the quote from the IAA site is the agreement with the DOJ,
it would seem that green lasers are not allowed in airsoft as they fall outside the agreed wavelength.
Not an expert by any means, just my interpretation.

OzCam

Can I Safely Use a Laser Pointer?
- Ken Barat, Certified Laser Safety Officer, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

See also Laser_safety on wikipedia - excellent article.

And if you need any more... You Only Received One Set of Eyeballs?

BTW, there's a huge difference in eye safety between class IIIa (now 3R) and class IIIb (now 3B).

Damage caused by a laser shining into the eye can occur in milliseconds, may not be noticeable at the time, and is permanent.


Lasers:
- with output of less than 5 milliWatts
- in the light frequencies of 630 to 680nm
used to be labelled Class IIIa (the letter A is significant), the new labelling system is Class 3R.

IANAL but my understanding is that possession of a laser above Class 3R is legal for certain purposes (eg Astronomy) but you may need to be able to demonstrate "due cause", and airsoft doesn't count as a defence.

A Class 3B laser is over 5 mW and is capable of instant eye damage in some circumstances.

Even class 3R lasers are not 100% safe for players wearing glasses, as the beam can still be focussed on the back of the eye and cause permanent damage. Any player with glasses should have the right to insist on not being lit up for this reason - and they're tactically useless anyway.

Gatling

On a side note a bloke in California just got sentenced to 14 years for shining a green laser at a police helicopter after targeting a children's hospital,

Wouldn't trust one single player with green or other color laser been honest ,
Too many variables that can cause permanent damage to a players sight

Drachnien

Gatling wrote: »

On a side note a bloke in California just got sentenced to 14 years for shining a green laser at a police helicopter after targeting a children's hospital,

Wouldn't trust one single player with green or other color laser been honest ,
Too many variables that can cause permanent damage to a players sight

That's different. Firstly most of the us has a law regarding laser pointers (1mW) And secondly he was endangering peoples lives. It shouldn't matter what he used.

My point though it's that you can get a red laser (class 3R) within the limits that's much more dangerous than a lower power green laser (class 2).

OzCam

Drachnien wrote: »

My point though it's that you can get a red laser (class 3R) within the limits that's much more dangerous than a lower power green laser (class 2).

I don't understand how that's possible (and an explanation would be welcome) but even if it's correct, you can't expect every site owner to inspect and test every laser that every customer turns up with.

The DoJ "written opinion" may not be technically perfect, but it's what they've given us to work within. Anyone is free to take them to the High Court to challenge that opinion if they wish, but that's a pretty quick way to lose money. We have a workable compromise - I'd rather lasers weren't used at all, but I can live with it.

I only have two eyes, and I'd like to get another 30 or 40 years out of them if I can.

And lasers are still tactically stupid anyway. Just a fast way to draw fire.

Drachnien

You can get class 2 green lasers (535nm <= 1 mW) which are considered to be safe unless you override your natural blink reflex and stare into the beam directly.

Most airsoft ones are class 3R Red lasers (eg 635nm <=5mw) which are considered safe for brief exposure to the eye and is considered a potential hazard even if your blink reflex kicks in.

And also a lot of the time your right lasers are terrible and can give away your position better than they target the enemies, you are actually better off using a lower power laser with a good focus and hood so that there is less flare at the end it's generated than going to the max of the limit and illuminating every dust particle between you and the target.

Its worth noting that for the formal safety classifications 'visible' lasers are all thought of as the same 400nm to 700nm outside that range your into UV and IR lasers which are treated differently. If you can't see it you dont blink.

NakedDex

What's the regs with IR lasers? I'd consider them arguably more useful than visible (considering I consider visible to be utterly useless, that's not hard), but I figured they'd have wildly different limits applied.

Drachnien

again theres no actual regs or laws on any lasers that I can find, only the advisory put out by the IAA but I'd say stay the hell away from invisible lasers, without being able to see the beam your body does not react to it so it is infinitely more likely to cause an eye injury. They would be class 3B at least and listed as one to avoid exposure to at all.

Basically you wouldn't know there was a danger till you felt the pain of it burning.

Rhinocharge

I enquired a while back & was directed to these regulations:
S.I. No. 176/2010 - Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) (Amendment) Regulations 2010.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2010/en.si.2010.0176.pdf

lillian2608

Yup. Stay away from invisible lasers. Unless you have NVG they are of absolutely no use and can be extremely dangerous.

Unless I'm very rusty on my old physics, you can't focus a laser beam. The nature of the beam is such that it is already is focused as much as is reasonably possible depending on the quality of the equipment used to generate it. Therefore glasses should make no difference.

I reckon the discussion has already answered the many questions posed, at least from an ethical and community pov. 1W good. 5W bad. Red Ok. Green not so. Tactically dubious. Legally ambiguous but have the potential to get you locked up for a significant time if you act the maggot with one.

I will say I have a 150mW red on my MP5 and have found it useful to combat anyone with a strobe. And that's a whole nother can of worms!