red flashing lights on council vans

PYRAS13

Just saw in last few days that Galway city council vans add red colour flasing emergency lights. AS far I know they allowed to have only amber/orange lights. Maybe I am wrong. Just look strange, look like ambulance or another emergency services. What do you think?

kub

But emergency vehicles only have red blinking lights at the back. It is very clear when approaching an incident on a roadway. The intermittent flashing of reds and blues is a lot clearer than just blue.
Also I have noticed over the last while council and in general motorway service vehicles with blinking red and yellow lights. I really cannot see the confusion.

flazio

Presumably they're being used by the council to warn of danger and not just for bog standard roadworks

D Trent

Delta security vans also have reds on light bar facing front and back

sawdoubters

I used to have blue flashing headlights to go to traffic,but the garda told me to stop using them last year whwn I drove past the dail on some protest

D Trent

sawdoubters wrote: »

I used to have blue flashing headlights to go to traffic,but the garda told me to stop using them last year whwn I drove past the dail on some them?

D Trent

sawdoubters wrote: »

I used to have blue flashing headlights to go to traffic,but the garda told me to stop using them last year whwn I drove past the dail on some protest

Why would you think it would be ok to have them?

belacqua_

Forward facing reds are illegal, rear reds aren't legislated for yet, but strictly speaking orange is the only colour they should using. Fourth/fifth thread on this topic?

PYRAS13

belacqua_ wrote: »

Forward facing reds are illegal, rear reds aren't legislated for yet, but strictly speaking orange is the only colour they should using. Fourth/fifth thread on this topic?

I think the same. Only Orange for all those building site , coucil, secuirity, bin truck.

kub

PYRAS13 wrote: »

I think the same. Only Orange for all those building site , coucil, secuirity, bin truck.

Actually that is one thing I have always wondered about, I can appreciate the need for them on council trucks, road work vehicles, tractors, bin trucks etc.
But why do security vans need them? I mean surely these vehicle's have hazard warning lights like any other van/ car? They don't have any special dispensation with regard to rules of the road, do they?

kub

kub wrote: »

Actually that is one thing I have always wondered about, I can appreciate the need for them on council trucks, road work vehicles, tractors, bin trucks etc.
But why do security vans need them? I mean surely these vehicle's have hazard warning lights like any other van/ car? They don't have any special dispensation with regard to rules of the road, do they?

Good image, looks professional and makes them look a bit more like they'd actually go out of their way to 'respond' to an alarm or such?

I'd imagine if I were hiring a security company, I'd rather one that had vehicles fitted with lightbars. Makes them more police-y. Completes their look (in my opinion).

3fullback

I think it's completely wrong and slightly blurring the line between public & private. As well as slightly imitating police vehicles. It's unnecessary and not needed, they have no powers or road traffic law exemptions.

That company in question also has a ambulance with a blue light bar even though it is only a Volvo estate again with no legal allowance for it use.

The law should be change and regulate for only amber lights outside official EMS vehicles!

Can anyone clarify laws surrounding private ambulances ? Murray etc.

goldie fish

kub wrote: »

Actually that is one thing I have always wondered about, I can appreciate the need for them on council trucks, road work vehicles, tractors, bin trucks etc.
But why do security vans need them? I mean surely these vehicle's have hazard warning lights like any other van/ car? They don't have any special dispensation with regard to rules of the road, do they?

Many locations where security vans visit are required to operate amber flashing beacons. Construction sites for example.

goldie fish

3fullback wrote: »

I think it's completely wrong and slightly blurring the line between public & private. As well as slightly imitating police vehicles. It's unnecessary and not needed, they have no powers or road traffic law exemptions.

That company in question also has a ambulance with a blue light bar even though it is only a Volvo estate again with no legal allowance for it use.

The law should be change and regulate for only amber lights outside official EMS vehicles!

Can anyone clarify laws surrounding private ambulances ? Murray etc.

The law, while simple, is also quite vague in its definitions. For example, you cannot have a flashing light on a MPV, but yet every single car is fitted with hazard warning lights...Also the law was written before things like strobes or flashing LEDs were in common use.

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS
S.I. No. 342 of 2006
Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Blue and Amber Lamps) Regulations 2006

I, Martin Cullen, Minister for Transport, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 11 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 (No. 24 of 1961) and the National Roads and Road Traffic (Transfer of Departmental Administration and Ministerial Functions) Order 2002 ( S.I. No. 298 of 2002 ) (as adapted by the Public Enterprise (Alteration of Name of Department and Title of Minister) Order 2002 ( S.I. No. 305 of 2002 )), hereby make the following regulations:
1. (1) These Regulations may be cited as the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles (Blue and Amber Lamps) Regulations 2006.
(2) The Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 to 1996 and these Regulations may be cited together as the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 to 2006.
2. In these Regulations “Regulations of 1963” means Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 ( S.I. No. 189 of 1963 ).
3. Article 49 of the Regulations of 1963 is amended by inserting after sub-article (8) the following:
“(9) Where a vehicle equipped with a lamp in accordance with article 52(18) is used in a public place, the lamp may only be used -
(a) if necessary in the circumstances, and
(b) in the case of a vehicle being used by the Irish Prison Service, where the vehicle is clearly identifiable as such by having appropriate livery and is usable for the purpose of transporting prisoners under guard.”.
4. Article 52 of the Regulations of 1963 is amended by substituting for sub-article (18 (inserted by the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 1996 ( S.I. No. 137 of 1996 )) the following:
“(18) (a) The requirements of article 40 (in so far as it refers to articles 41, 42 48 and 49) and articles 41, 42, 48 and 49 (except sub-article 9) do not apply to a lamp complying with paragraph (b) which is carried on a vehicle being used -
(i) by a member of the Garda Síochána in the performance of his or her duties as such member,
(ii) as a fire brigade vehicle,
(iii) by persons providing an ambulance service,
(iv) by the Irish Prison Service,
(v) as an Irish Marine Emergency Service vehicle, with or without a trailer,
(vi) for the delivery or collection of human transplant organs human blood or human blood products,
(vii) as a breakdown vehicle,
(viii) as a road clearance vehicle,
(ix) as a road works vehicle,
(x) by a local authority (within the meaning of the Local Government Act 2001 (No. 37 of 2001)) or other person authorised by a local authority in the collection and disposal of refuse,
(xi) in the provision or maintenance of telephone services or of gas or electricity supply, or
(xii) as a Customs and Excise patrol vehicle.
(b) In relation to a lamp carried on a vehicle referred to in paragraph (a) -
(i) the light shown by the lamp shall in the case of a vehicle referred to in -
(I) paragraph (a) (i) to (vi), be blue, and
(II) paragraph (a) (vii) to (xii), be amber,
(ii) the power of the lamp where the colour of the light is -
(I) blue, shall not exceed 50 watts, and
(II) amber, shall not exceed 36 watts,
(iii) the lamp shall, where possible, be fitted on the roof of the vehicle on a point on its longitudinal axis,
(iv) no part of the illuminated surface of the lamp shall be less than 1.27 metres from the ground,
(v) the area of the orthogonal projection on to any vertical plane of that part of the lamp through which light is shown shall be capable of lying wholly within a square having sides of 230 millimetres in length,
(vi) the lamp, in the case of a road works vehicle, or a vehicle used in the provision or maintenance of telephone services or gas or electricity supply shall be lit only when the vehicle is in use at the scene of operations.
(c) In this sub-article -
‘breakdown vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for towing broken down mechanically propelled vehicles, trailers or semi-trailers to the nearest convenient place of safety or repair and includes a vehicle used in connection with and in the immediate vicinity of a breakdown;
‘Customs and Excise patrol vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used by an official of Customs and Excise in the performance of his or her duties as such official;
‘fire brigade vehicle’ means a vehicle used by a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 (No. 30 of 1981)) and includes a vehicle used by a senior fire officer in the performance of his or her duty as such officer;
‘Irish Marine Emergency Service vehicle’ includes a mechanically propelled vehicle, with or without a trailer, used by a senior manager in the Irish Marine Emergency Service in the performance of his or her duty as such officer;
‘road clearance vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for dealing with frost, ice or snow on roads and includes a vehicle used for cutting of roadside hedges or roadside grass verges or in the sweeping of roads;
‘road works vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used in connection with the construction, maintenance and improvement of roads or in connection with the provision and maintenance of water supplies, sewerage and drainage services;
‘senior fire officer’ means a fire officer not below the grade of Assistant Fire Officer (Prevention) but including the grades of Second Officer and Third Officer;
‘senior manager in the Irish Marine Emergency Service’ means an officer of the Irish Marine Emergency Service not below the grade of Divisional Officer.”.

sdanseo

Think we can safely say just about every vehicle mentioned in those regulations now has a light less than 1.27m from the ground. Front repeaters, front and rear bumper LEDs, even council vehicles have grille lights in some cases.

What an utterly pointless stipulation, really.

goldie fish

Ever try to find a point 1.27m from the ground on a motorcycle?

belacqua_

goldie fish wrote: »

Ever try to find a point 1.27m from the ground on a motorcycle?

I suppose that explains the need for an aerodynamic lollipop light.

goldie fish

belacqua_ wrote: »

I suppose that explains the need for an aerodynamic lollipop light.

It also makes all other lights technically unlawful..

Capri

(ii) the power of the lamp where the colour of the light is -
(I) blue, shall not exceed 50 watts, and
(II) amber, shall not exceed 36 watts

Shows the stupidity of the law to some extent - I suppose someone more expert than me could define the Kelvin or Brightness of the low power LED's.

So for example you could have a 50W old type light giving say 2000 K (torchlight) but the new LED's consuming 10W would give 6000 K (Oxy-Acet welding gun ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature therefore all these laws are redundant so to speak regarding the blinding / visibility effect of the newer lighting

Seems crazy really that council vehicles should have a lower power light to warn other road users than Emergency vehicles - and what about Spanish ambulances, they use orange lights for some reason http://www.e-mergencia.com/galeria/data/6/A.86-4.jpeg or 'Private Ambulance' here used by funeral directors with green lights on the roof http://ambulance-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/2386.jpg

onmia

Capri wrote: »

Seems crazy really that council vehicles should have a lower power light to warn other road users than Emergency vehicles

50 Watts in Blue = 36 Watts in Amber ?


The new led lightbars on the dfb ambos , alternating white and blue Can be dazzling daytime close up but stand out from a distance.


but as mentioned led seems to be a hell of a lot brighter than incandescent lamps and xenon strobes.

searescue

Update in legislation since 2006.

I, LEO VARADKAR, Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 11 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 (No. 24 of 1961) and the National Roads and Roads Traffic (Transfer of Departmental Administration and Ministerial Functions) Order 2002 ( S.I. No. 298 of 2002 ) (as adapted by the Public Enterprise (Alteration of Name of Department and Title of Minister) Order 2002 ( S.I. No. 305 of 2002 ) and the Transport (Alteration of the Name of Department and Title of Minister) Order 2011 ( S.I. No. 141 of 2011 )), hereby make the following Regulations:

1. These Regulations may be cited as the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Blue and Amber Lamps) (Amendment) Regulations 2011.

2. Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles)(Blue and Amber Lamps) Regulations 2006 ( S.I. No. 342 of 2006 ) are amended by substituting for Regulation 4 the following:

“4. Article 52 of the Regulations of 1963 is amended by substituting for sub-article (18) (as substituted by the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 2006 ( S.I. No. 342 of 2006 )) the following:

(18)(a) Article 40 (in so far as it refers to articles 41, 42, 48 and 49) and articles 41, 42, 48 and 49 (except sub-article 9) do not apply to a lamp which complies with paragraph (b) and which is carried on a vehicle being used—

(i) by a member of the Garda Síochána in the performance of his or her duties,

(ii) as a fire brigade vehicle,

(iii) by persons providing an ambulance service,

(iv) by the Irish Prison Service,

(v) as an Irish Coast Guard vehicle, with or without a trailer,

(vi) for the delivery or collection of human transplant organs, human blood or human blood products,

(vii) as a Marked Military Police vehicle,

(viii) as a breakdown vehicle,

(ix) as a road clearance vehicle,

(x) as a road works vehicle,

(xi) by a local authority (within the meaning of the Local Government Act 2001 (No. 37 of 2001)) or other person authorised by a local authority in the collection and disposal of refuse,

(xii) in the provision or maintenance of telephone services or of gas or electricity supply, or

(xiii) as a Customs and Excise patrol vehicle.

(b) In relation to a lamp carried on a vehicle referred to in paragraph (a)—

(i) the light shown by the lamp shall in the case of a vehicle referred to in—

(I) paragraph (a)(i) to (vii), be blue, and

(II) paragraph (a)(viii) to (xiii), be amber,

(ii) the power of the lamp where the colour of the light is—

(I) blue, shall not exceed 50 watts, and

(II) amber, shall not exceed 36 watts,

(iii) the lamp shall, where possible, be fitted on the roof of the vehicle on a point on its longitudinal axis,

(iv) no part of the illuminated surface of the lamp shall be less than 1.27 metres from the ground,

(v) the area of the orthogonal projection on to any vertical plane of that part of the lamp through which light is shown shall be capable of lying wholly within a square having sides of 230 millimetres in length,

(vi) the lamp, in the case of a road works vehicle, or a vehicle used in the provision or maintenance of telephone services or gas or electricity supply shall be lit only when the vehicle is in use at the scene of operations.

(c) In this sub-article—

‘breakdown vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for towing broken down mechanically propelled vehicles, trailers or semi-trailers to the nearest convenient place of safety or repair and includes a vehicle used in connection with and in the immediate vicinity of a breakdown;

‘Customs and Excise patrol vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used by an official of Customs and Excise in the performance of his or her duties as such official;

‘fire brigade vehicle’ means a vehicle used by a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 (No. 30 of 1981)) and includes a vehicle used by a senior fire officer in the performance of his or her duty as such officer;

‘Irish Coast Guard vehicle’ includes a mechanically propelled vehicle, with or without a trailer, used by a senior manager in the Irish Coast Guard in the performance of his or her duty as such officer;

‘Marked Military Police vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled Defence Forces vehicle used by a member of the Military Police Corps in the performance of his or her duties;

‘road clearance vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for dealing with frost, ice or snow on roads and includes a vehicle used for cutting of roadside hedges or roadside grass verges or in the sweeping of roads;

‘road works vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle used in connection with the construction, maintenance and improvement of roads or in connection with the provision and maintenance of water supplies, sewerage and drainage services;

‘senior fire officer’ means a fire officer not below the grade of Assistant Fire Officer (Prevention) but including the grades of Second Officer and Third Officer;

‘senior manager in the Irish Coast Guard ’ means an officer of the Irish Coast Guard not below the grade of Divisional Officer.”

PYRAS13

Yeah it is all about blue or amber, so using red coloured by council is illegal

goldie fish

PYRAS13 wrote: »

Yeah it is all about blue or amber, so using red coloured by council is illegal

On the contrary. If red isn't specifically mentioned then it is not illegal.

searescue

Very big increase in councils and wide load escort vehicles using red LED's to the rear.

No legislation??

Truckermal

searescue wrote: »

Very big increase in councils and wide load escort vehicles using red LED's to the rear.

No legislation??

Why do the council need these strobes anyway its not like they are ever in a hurry anywhere????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Markcheese

Truckermal wrote: »

Why do the council need these strobes anyway its not like they are ever in a hurry anywhere????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Baboom-
Wouldn't have thought rear facing strobes would help them go anywhere in a hurry - might stop someone crashing into them if stopped on a busy road though -

AlekSmart

Markcheese wrote: »

Baboom-
Wouldn't have thought rear facing strobes would help them go anywhere in a hurry - might stop someone crashing into them if stopped on a busy road though -

100% agree.

What is the most annoying aspect of these lights is the CONSTANT use they get.

For example Dublin City Council have a fleet of Gully Emptiers/roadsweepers which have a battery of hi-power Flood Lights mounted on the rear.

I have no issue with these been deployed when the vehicle is operating slowly on the roadway,but invariably these remain on CONSTANTLY,even when heading to/from their depot,causing a very high degree of cruel & unusual punishment to the eyeballs of following motorists.:o

No matter what the vehicle,the strobe lighting should only be used when it is in "Work" mode.....any ordinary motoring should see the things switched OFF.