A Century of Irish Aviation

Jawgap

Two-parter starting next Thursday on RTE......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEKSkOJH5to

johnny_doyle

looking forward to this programme. Hopefully available via the net.

I've acquired a few books over the years that deal with Irish aviation which I think are quite good :

Green is My Sky by AA Quigley
A View from Above : 200 Years of Aviation in Ireland by Donal MacCarron
Landfall Ireland by Donal MacCarron
A History of the RAF and US Naval Air Service in Ireland 1913-1923 by Karl Hayes

and picked up a DVD last year called "On Golden Wings : The Story of the Irish Air Corps 1922-2012". A bit long but some interesting clips and background info.

Would be interested to know if there are any other recommended books/DVDs that deal with early Irish aviation, civil or military.

chughes

I have the following :
History of Aviation in Ireland by Liam Byrne published by Blackwater in 1980.
Diamonds In The Sky A Social History of Air Travel by Kenneth Hudson and Julian Pettifer published by the BBC in 1979. This isn't specific to Ireland but does have some Irish detail in it.
Tragedy At Tuskar Rock by Mike Reynolds published by Gill & McMillan in 2003.
Wings Over Ireland The Story of the Irish Air Corps by Donal MacCarron published by Midland in 1996.
I also have the Quigley book.

Jawgap

Have the Quigley book too, and I can recommend......



Available from UCD Press on Stephens Green

chughes

One I haven't got but I did borrow from the library at one stage is Hugh Oram's Dublin Airport A History published in 1990.

mickmackey1

Jawgap wrote: »

We would definitely have stopped the Luftwaffe with that :pac:

johnny_doyle

mickmackey1 wrote: »

We would definitely have stopped the Luftwaffe with that :pac:

the aircraft in the photo (B1 aka 1) was out of service by February 1924, scrapped after crash landing. The last Bristol Fighter left Irish service approx 1935/6.

There's a nice list of Irish military planes at the following URL

http://www.irishairpics.com/aircorps/aircorps_history/popup_aircorps_reg.php

Will be interesting to see what the programme covers from this era.

Jawgap

mickmackey1 wrote: »

We would definitely have stopped the Luftwaffe with that :pac:

Considering only the lumbering bombers could have made it this far from France, I reckon the Air Corps would've done alright against them, given sufficient warning of their approach.

Plus, the aircraft based in NI would have been down to give a dig out.

I have copies of the contingency plans prepared by Fighter Command to extend their organisation into 'Eire' in the event they were invited to.....

There would have been 8 sector stations and 3 forward aerodromes.

Coastal Command would have two and Bomber Command, one station each in addition to the fighter stations (all in NI).

28 Radar stations were planned (14 Chain Home and 14 Chain Home Low).

Fighter control would have been established in Dublin given it was at the hub of the telephone network and the island would eventually come under the control of its own Fighter Group HQ, based in Dublin.

'Collinstown' was set aside for the initial forward deployment of Battles - Baldonnel for fighters and Gormanstown for repair and maintenance.

Santa Cruz

Jawgap wrote: »

Considering only the lumbering bombers could have made it this far from France, I reckon the Air Corps would've done alright against them, given sufficient warning of their approach.

Plus, the aircraft based in NI would have been down to give a dig out.

I have copies of the contingency plans prepared by Fighter Command to extend their organisation into 'Eire' in the event they were invited to.....

There would have been 8 sector stations and 3 forward aerodromes.

Coastal Command would have two and Bomber Command, one station each in addition to the fighter stations (all in NI).

28 Radar stations were planned (14 Chain Home and 14 Chain Home Low).

Fighter control would have been established in Dublin given it was at the hub of the telephone network and the island would eventually come under the control of its own Fighter Group HQ, based in Dublin.

'Collinstown' was set aside for the initial forward deployment of Battles - Baldonnel for fighters and Gormanstown for repair and maintenance.

All that is assuming of course that Britain hadn't fallen. If it had we would have been wiped out in a few days.

whisky_galore

Are there any old planes left? Aware that Aer Lingus have one dolled up as Iolar.

cml387

I have to recommend Cleared For disaster by Michael O'Toole, which deals with aircraft accidents in and around Ireland over 60 years.

I thought I knew a fair bit about Irish aviation history but this book was a revelation.

kabakuyu

Don't know much about aviation, but I recall coming across this aptly named individual "Falcon Hazell" and a Galway man to boot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_F._Hazell

johnny_doyle

didn't get to see it - nothing via RTE player. Will be trying to see if a DVD or something will be available.

What is the opinion from those who did manage to watch it?

nuac

Good programme.

Govt of the day and civil service showed good vision in development of Shannon.

Brendan O'Regan was a great innovator - from Gaelic coffee, quality cuisine and duty-free shopping at Shannon to the Rent-a-Cottage schemes.

He helped to extend those schemes to Connemara ( Tullycross ) and Mayo ( Louisburgh )

At the time 1970s much of the tourism from the USA consisted of bus tours for elderly visitors. Because of their age there was little repeat business.

They were brought around to hotels but had little interaction with local people.

At the Louisburgh Rent a Cottage scheme, owned and run by a local cooperative, they host repeat visitors. Some of those families coming for 30+ years. A good example of the concept of social tourism, pioneered by O'Regan

Boulevardier

It was good, but it had all I wanted to see in the first programme which went right up to the 1970's. After that, it gets less interesting as far as I am concerned.

They seem to have left out a couple of things - there was no mention of the 2 transatlantic flights from Portmarnock in 1930 and 1932, and the cancellation of the Aerlinte transatlantic service in 1948 should also have been mentioned.

Brilliant footage though, of Foynes and early Shannon and Collinstown.

pedroeibar1

Missed the very beginning but saw the rest. Good, with some great footage. Pity that it showed too many OTT, cliched take-offs - why not have used more cabin interior shots/ other old footage? It will be interesting to see how they handle the CJH/D.Desmond approach to the IFSC, the development of the aircraft finance/leasing/insurance sector and the GPA 'floatation'.

johnny_doyle

not related to the programme but a nice video clip on the following blog with some Air Corps aircraft (2 x Hurricanes and possibly a Miles Magister?) in the RDS

http://irishgarrisontowns.com/the-last-tattoo-dublin-september-1945/

Judgement Day

whisky_galore wrote: »

Are there any old planes left? Aware that Aer Lingus have one dolled up as Iolar.

Sure, there's shed loads of them in the National Aviation Museum, right next door to the National Maritime Museum which is next door to the National Railway Museum........but then unless the plane was flown by the Wright brothers it wouldn't be worth putting in a museum. :rolleyes:

whisky_galore

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sure, there's shed loads of them in the National Aviation Museum, right next door to the National Maritime Museum which is next door to the National Railway Museum........but then unless the plane was flown by the Wright brothers it wouldn't be worth putting in a museum. :rolleyes:

The sarcasm is strong with this one.:pac:

Jawgap

There's IAC-161 Spitfire, which flies out of the UK....



Which demonstrates how heritage worthwhile preserving will always find a willing sponsor and not have to rely on the public purse

whisky_galore

It's probably better off being based in the uk imho. Would have been made into razor blades years ago if it were up to anyone here.

Jawgap

Feck it....they repainted her.....



Edit: History of IAC-161 - didn't realise the Grace Spitfire was an ex-IAC airframe!

Judgement Day

Jawgap wrote: »

There's IAC-161 Spitfire, which flies out of the UK....

Which demonstrates how heritage worthwhile preserving will always find a willing sponsor and not have to rely on the public purse

Except in the Republic of Ireland.

Jawgap

Judgement Day wrote: »

Except in the Republic of Ireland.

No, City Jet sponsored her trip over and the evening we had in Baldonnel. There's a radio programme about her too.

cml387

Just watched this.

I thought that it was good in that it had a lot of good archive footage. I susupect that the point of the program is to draw a line from Foynes/Rineanna through Aer Lingus and Tony Ryan to Europe's largest budget airline, and the likes of Willie Walsh, Ulick Mac Evaddy et al.

johnny_doyle

did anyone catch part 2 last night?

pedroeibar1

Jawgap wrote: »

There's IAC-161 Spitfire, which flies out of the UK....

Weren't the Irish Spitfires originally Seafires? Or were some Spitfires? I recall a story that they were shipped in crates to Singapore during WW2 and came from Australia, having being diverted there as a result of the fall of the former. I used to know one of the pilots, (retired, now deceased) who had flown all the AC planes including the Vampire and when the Cessna's were delivered he was taken up for a spin in one, his remark on them being 'You know, it even had a hook in the cockpit to hang your cap on!'

Sorry to have missed part 2 last night....have to watch for player

chughes

johnny_doyle wrote: »

did anyone catch part 2 last night?

It was mainly about Tony Ryan, GPA, and Ryanair.

johnny_doyle

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Weren't the Irish Spitfires originally Seafires? Or were some Spitfires? I recall a story that they were shipped in crates to Singapore during WW2 and came from Australia, having being diverted there as a result of the fall of the former. I used to know one of the pilots, (retired, now deceased) who had flown all the AC planes including the Vampire and when the Cessna's were delivered he was taken up for a spin in one, his remark on them being 'You know, it even had a hook in the cockpit to hang your cap on!'

Sorry to have missed part 2 last night....have to watch for player

I believe that 11 of the Seafires were from 1945 production contracts and 1 from a 1944 production contract. 7 from Cunliffe Owen Ltd; 5 from Westland.

They were refurbished (the parts that made them aircraft carrier planes were removed) just around the corner from me in what is now the Honda car factory in Swindon, before shipment to the Air Corps in 1947.

The Spitfires were later manufacture I think.

johnny_doyle

just double checked : the Spitfires were delivered later but were manufactured 1943, 1944 and 1945.

imme

johnny_doyle wrote: »

did anyone catch part 2 last night?

didn't think it was good.
it featured lots of luvvies and insiders without much to say.

Tony Ryan was presented as a megalomaniac/psyhco which I presumed he was anyway.

johnny_doyle

sounds like part 2 might be a bit of a damp squib.


I've been looking at the British Pathe website and their workspaces feature for collecting together film clips. The following link is to some of the Irish Air Corps and Irish aviation clips found so far

http://www.britishpathe.com/workspaces/johnny-doyle/SL5qdeEy

pedroeibar1

imme wrote: »

didn't think it was good.
it featured lots of luvvies and insiders without much to say.

Tony Ryan was presented as a megalomaniac/psyhco which I presumed he was anyway.

I did not see the programme so I do not know how Tony Ryan was presented but I can state that your comment on him is grossly inaccurate and thus gives a totally incorrect perspective of the man.

pedroeibar1

johnny_doyle wrote: »

just double checked : the Spitfires were delivered later but were manufactured 1943, 1944 and 1945.

Thanks J_D. The fall of Singapore was '42, which casts doubt on my Singapore/Australia story, - I heard it from a senior ex Air Corps officer, commissioned (mid/late?) 1930's so I'd still guess that there is some Far East link.

johnny_doyle

there seems to have been a batch of Hurricanes delivered to Singapore in January 1942 and pressed into service against the Japanese. The following book may be of interest :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hurricanes-Over-Singapore-Fighters-Netherlands/dp/1904010806

The only Irish Seafire I can see with a link to the Far East was no 155 which might have been with 880 Squadron, Fleet Air Arm in April 1945. Their ship, HMS Implacable was in Australia mid 1945 for a refit.

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/squadrons/880.html

johnny_doyle

a 1926 article re the arrival of the 4 DH.60 Cirrus Moths (numbers 23, 24, 25 and 26 in Irish service)

http://antoglach.militaryarchives.ie/PDF/1926_07_17_Vol_5_No2_An%20t-Oglac-2.pdf