Landlord to increase rent

okagbue

Hi Guys
So I am in private rented accommodation with my lease up in July. I just received a call from the letting agency advising from next month my rent will be increasing by €300. Now I told them that this is not legal especially in the middle of a lease. The girl said that as far as they are concerned it is. I said that I would only be paying the rent I am paying now until July and she said that that would put me in arrears and the landlady will be writing to me giving me notice.

Am I right in what I am thinking that they cannot give me notice. There are no other issues. Rent up to date, paid on time etc.

I want to send an email to the agency but can anyone advise me on the correct lingo to use.

djimi

You are correct; they cannot increase the rent while a fixed term lease is in effect.

Is this your first year of renting? If so, then they can only review the rent once in a 12 month period, so even if you didnt have a lease this still wouldnt be legal.

Also a phone call is not valid notice of a rent increase.

If in doubt, dispute the increase with the PRTB. You continue paying the current amount until the case is heard (which will be months from now), and from what you have said there is little chance of the landlord winning the case.

Sadderday

http://www.prtb.ie/

Private residential tenancies board
Get on it asap, get onto this site and check it out or ring them

okagbue

Thanks for your help guys on this
It's my second lease in the house and they already increased the rent when I renewed last July

Sadderday

okagbue wrote: »

Thanks for your help guys on this
It's my second lease in the house and they already increased the rent when I renewed last July

well make sure you explain all of this when you get in touch with the PRTB, they will advise you of what avenue you should take on this and what you are entitled to. You may even be entitled to some sort of refund... be interested to see how you get on so let us know and best of luck!!

goat2

how could they put an increase of 300pm, that does not sound right, and would put strain on you

runawaybishop

The OP should contact the letting agency first before going to the PRTB. Explain

1) the notice isn't valid via that communication method
2) rent can only be reviewed once every 12 months
3) you have a lease which dictates your payment amount until July, they can review it then
4) increase must be in line with market
5) if they continue to harass you then you will contact PTRB
6) If they try an illegal eviction you will instigate legal proceedings.

Effects

Do you have a copy of the lease? And is it registered with the PRTB?

djimi

okagbue wrote: »

Thanks for your help guys on this
It's my second lease in the house and they already increased the rent when I renewed last July

In that case the rent is definitely not up for review until July.

Also the chances of any market allowing for an increase of €300 in a 6 month period is extremely slim. Go onto Daft and see what similar houses in your area are renting for, but Id be surprised if an increase of that amount in such a short space of time could be justified, even if the review were allowed.

Michael D Not Higgins

Shocking carry on. Hope you get it sorted OP.

Santa Cruz

djimi wrote: »

In that case the rent is definitely not up for review until July.

Also the chances of any market allowing for an increase of €300 in a 6 month period is extremely slim. Go onto Daft and see what similar houses in your area are renting for, but Id be surprised if an increase of that amount in such a short space of time could be justified, even if the review were allowed.

The Residential Tenancies Act is supposed to control this behaviour
Any rent increase must be fair in comparison with similar properties in the area. A lease is a legal agreement and rent cannot be increased in the middle of it. The Letting Agency should be aware of the legal position. I would advise inform them in writing that you are reporting this to PRTB. Legally your tenancy should be registered with them. The obligation to report the tenancy is belonging to the landlord. If the tenancy is not registered you are still entitled to benefit from the terms of the Act.

TheBandicoot

goat2 wrote: »

that does not sound right, and would put strain on you

Welcome to the Irish rental market.

When you have 'professionals' operating a letting agency who don't even know the basics of the law, what hope do we have? Could you name and shame the agency or is that against boards.ie rules?

The_Morrigan

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Welcome to the Irish rental market.

When you have 'professionals' operating a letting agency who don't even know the basics of the law, what hope do we have? Could you name and shame the agency or is that against boards.ie rules?

Mod Note: don't name and shame the agency.

Thomas D

Disgraceful carry on. When July comes please refer to this landmark post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87783693&postcount=1

runawaybishop

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Welcome to the Irish rental market.

When you have 'professionals' operating a letting agency who don't even know the basics of the law, what hope do we have? Could you name and shame the agency or is that against boards.ie rules?

For all you know the property could be very much under the current market price. No point jumping the gun.

Michael D Not Higgins

runawaybishop wrote: »

For all you know the property could be very much under the current market price. No point jumping the gun.

That doesn't matter, the OP has had a rent review last summer and signed a new lease.

runawaybishop

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That doesn't matter, the OP has had a rent review last summer and signed a new lease.

The post is referring only to the rise in rent.

Michael D Not Higgins

runawaybishop wrote: »

The post is referring only to the rise in rent.

Ah now, if they had a rent review about half a year ago, there's no way the market rate went up 300.

runawaybishop

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Ah now, if they had a rent review about half a year ago, there's no way the market rate went up 300.

Speculation. We have no idea what the rent was, it could have been well under market rate. We can only advise on the details provided by the op.

djimi

runawaybishop wrote: »

Speculation. We have no idea what the rent was, it could have been well under market rate. We can only advise on the details provided by the op.

While youre not wrong in what you say, Id say the chances of a property having a rent review and remaining €300 under market rates are very slim.

chopper6

Funny that i've never heard of a landlord *decreasing* the rent....whether times are good or times are bad, always a one way street with these gougers.

daRobot

Don't stress it OP, the law is totally on your side.

As you'll clearly be leaving come July, make it your business to be as awkward as possible and make it hell for them. They tried to do you, make absolutely sure you do them back.

beauf

chopper6 wrote: »

Funny that i've never heard of a landlord *decreasing* the rent....whether times are good or times are bad, always a one way street with these gougers.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rent-increases-in-dublin-but-falls-elsewhere-in-second-quarter-1.1525282

Maybe you've not seen any news since 2007.

hfallada

chopper6 wrote: »

Funny that i've never heard of a landlord *decreasing* the rent....whether times are good or times are bad, always a one way street with these gougers.

My parents were forced to reduce the rent on many of their properties in the last 6 years. And only in the last 2 years have they increased rents. Without landlords there would b be hundreds of thousands without housing in this country. You can't expect someone to provide a service for cost price. Most Landlords are in it for the money. That doesn't mean they are bad people like you are implying, but are doing what 99.9% of what most business period so which is increase the rent if they can

beauf

OP is the new rent being asked more than the average locally?

The_Conductor

chopper6 wrote: »

Funny that i've never heard of a landlord *decreasing* the rent....whether times are good or times are bad, always a one way street with these gougers.

Far from it. Both commercial and residential property is now, even after recent increases, signficantly cheaper than it was 10 years ago. If you look at locations outside of Dublin- some rents are as low as a quarter what they once were.

Also- landlords aren't gougers by any means. They are business people, like any other business people. Who do you think they are? Santa claus? Would you imagine they are letting property out of the goodness of their hearts and should simply let tenants live in property rent-free, if this was what they wanted?

I don't understand why you seem to think that landlords are some kind of social welfare officer- they're not.

The government has abdicated responsibility for providing accommodation- to the private sector. Without landlords letting property- people would literally not have a roof over their heads.

The change in the rules- allowing tenants to purchase council property- decimated the amount of council controlled property in the country- if we ever want to bring public provision of housing back into the equation ever again- we need to remove this 'right'.

This 'right' was also instrumental in planting the notion in people's heads that everyone has the right to own their own property- which was the spark that ignited the whole property explosion in the country. We have done remarkable harm to the country- without anyone ever acknowledging it- much less prescribing a path out of the mess.

Landlord's are business people. The person selling you a cup of coffee at lunchtime- is involved in a business. The shop selling you your weekly groceries is a business. The tradespeople offering to paint your house (or whatever)- are businesses. Businesses, unless specifically stated, are not there to provide a social service to you, they are there to maximise profits (or at least, minimise losses). You are a consumer. If you are unhappy with a particular business- shop around. If you can't get cheaper elsewhere- then you're looking at your best option- whether you're happy with it, or not.

debabyjesus

So renters of council property being given the option to buy their houses destroyed the country? What a ridiculous post

murphaph

chopper6 wrote: »

Funny that i've never heard of a landlord *decreasing* the rent....whether times are good or times are bad, always a one way street with these gougers.

Not a clue what you're talking about mate. Rents fell significantly from 2008 onwards. Some commercial landlords (generally large pension funds etc. with no ear to the ground) insisted on enforcing their upward only rent reviews and in the process driving their tenants out of business but this was not par for the course at all.

murphaph

The_Conductor wrote: »

The government has abdicated responsibility for providing accommodation- to the private sector. Without landlords letting property- people would literally not have a roof over their heads.

Very good point this. Ireland as a whole doesn't have anywhere near the required number of social housing for those who need it. It relies on private landlords to house those who cannot house themselves. Ireland is not alone, Germany has very little social housing. Even former socialist housing in the former GDR is largely in private hands now. The difference is that landlords are not demonised in Germany as they are in Ireland. There's a cultural hated (on display in this tread) of landlords that goes back to when Ireland was part of the UK and the "absentee landlord" was a seen as an arch villain.

beauf

None of this has anything to do with the op topic.

The lack of any clear protection for LLs and tenants over many years causes most problems.

The_Conductor

debabyjesus wrote: »

So renters of council property being given the option to buy their houses destroyed the country? What a ridiculous post

Giving those who rent council property the right to buy the property- and indeed incentivising them to do so- decimated the amount of property at the disposal of councils, and put the onus on the private sector to satisfy fundamental housing needs.

Allowing (and encouraging) people to buy property (at significant discounts to open market values)- fed a perception that buying property was a sure fire investment- and indeed when you're getting the property at far less than the OMSP- it would be difficult not to be.

None of this would have mattered- had councils ploughed the money realised from these sales, and indeed insisted on the terms of social housing in planning applications being met in houses rather than cash. Instead- councils saw their stock of houses as a cash cow- and they milked them for what they were worth.

We are now in a situation- where councils are incapable of housing those they are legally obliged to house- and reliant on the private sector to satisfy this need.

Its quite obvious really- and its been acknowledged in other countries and remedial actions taken- but not here.

I don't understand why we can't have a root and branch reform of the entire rental sector- safeguarding tenants, encouraging far longer tenancies, doing away with the notion of 'furnished properties', taking deposits away from the remit of landlords to an independent agency (possibly based on the Scottish experience)- and try and cherrypick those aspects of tenancy legislation that best work elsewhere, and put together robust legislation here that could properly define tenant/landlord interactions in the future.

I'd also love to see some way of weeding out the small scale landlord- with one or two properties- who hasn't got a clue of legislation or how to manage their interactions with their tenants. Perhaps encompass their properties into a council housing stock regeneration scheme- and give them an 'out' at current market prices?

Anyhow- we're gone miles off topic here.

The_Conductor

okagbue wrote: »

Hi Guys
So I am in private rented accommodation with my lease up in July. I just received a call from the letting agency advising from next month my rent will be increasing by €300. Now I told them that this is not legal especially in the middle of a lease. The girl said that as far as they are concerned it is. I said that I would only be paying the rent I am paying now until July and she said that that would put me in arrears and the landlady will be writing to me giving me notice.

Am I right in what I am thinking that they cannot give me notice. There are no other issues. Rent up to date, paid on time etc.

I want to send an email to the agency but can anyone advise me on the correct lingo to use.

OP- the landlord can review the rent annually- at any stage in the tenancy (doesn't have to be the start or renewal date of the lease)- but no more frequent than annually. Any proposed increase must be in keeping with local rates- aka if similar units in the vicinity are generating the proposed rent, and the last increase was at least 12 months previous- its legitimate- if these two conditions are not met- its not legitimate.

If the two conditions are not met- and the letting agency are refusing to budge- lodge an appeal with the PRTB- and you will win (note- while the appeal is open, you pay the current rent- however if the appeal is decided against you- the higher rent applies from the date at which it was notified to apply). If the two conditions are not met- you're home and dry on this one.

murphaph

beauf wrote: »

None of this has anything to do with the op topic.

The lack of any clear protection for LLs and tenants over many years causes most problems.

I think any right thinking person would be in favour of more protection for good tenants and landlords and no protection for bad tenants and landlords. From a landlord's perspective I see the PRTB's formation as addressing tenant's issues much more so than landlord's issues. The PRTB will not seek an injunction on behalf of a landlord with a destructive tenant, but they will seek one for a tenant who has been illegally evicted. This is a double standard that must be addressed.

I'd happily work within a system of strong tenant's rights so long as that system protected me (in a reasonable amount of time!!) from delinquent tenants. There are good landlords and good tenants out there that deserve each other and bad tenants and bad landlords that deserve each other equally. The system should be set up such that these groups find each other and it can be done (although I have no faith in the PRTB doing it) but is probably hard to implement without being able to positively identify tenants and landlords and this means some sort of standardised ID card....something "the continentals" have no problem with but something Paddy and John Bull cannot come to terms with at all.

djimi

The_Conductor wrote: »

OP- the landlord can review the rent annually- at any stage in the tenancy (doesn't have to be the start or renewal date of the lease)- but no more frequent than annually.

Im not sure that this is correct, and Threshold certainly do not agree with you on this. I did some research into this a few months back, and the general consensus was that a lease renewal is a rent review; if the rent is not changed on the renewed lease then it cannot change until that lease has expired. And thats leaving aside the fact that a lease is a legal agreement to pay X amount of rent over a 12 month period (and as such should not be allowed to be altered unless both parties agree to it).

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

Im not sure that this is correct, and Threshold certainly do not agree with you on this. I did some research into this a few months back, and the general consensus was that a lease renewal is a rent review; if the rent is not changed on the renewed lease then it cannot change until that lease has expired. And thats leaving aside the fact that a lease is a legal agreement to pay X amount of rent over a 12 month period (and as such should not be allowed to be altered unless both parties agree to it).

This is slightly at odds with the 2004 Act.
However- if you sign a lease specifying a rent to be paid periodically for a particular term- you then have a contractual agreement with the landlord.
Going by the Act- this could be reviewed once every 12 months- unless of course the landlord abdicates the right to review it, a right that exists in the Act, by virtue of how they word the lease. Stranger things have happened.

One way or the other- the physical lease is in addition to any rights the tenant has under the Act, and cannot diminish any rights defined in the Act. A landlord is however free to give away any or all of their rights- knowingly, or through poor drafting, of the lease.

I can't see anywhere in the Act where it infers the renewal date of the lease, is a rent review?

djimi

The argument that was made is that a renewed lease is a document drawn up and signed by the landlord, and if the rent amount is drawn into the lease (as it is in pretty much any lease I have seen) then that was the chance for the landlord to increase or decrease the rent. By the act of writing the rent amount to the lease it has been reviewed, even if the rent remains the same.

If the lease does not specify the amount of rent to be paid over the period of the lease then I suppose in that case it could open to a review during the lease. I probably should have specified this initially; I just assume (perhaps wrongly) that the rent amount is going to be written into the lease.

okagbue

Hi All

Thanks for your help on this. To be honest I am paying under the market rate at the moment. Most 3 beds in the area are about €1100 and I pay €950 so I was expecting an increase when my lease was up just not €300

The main thing that worried me was the fact that they said the increase was effective immediately but now I know how to approach the agency I don't feel so stressed...

I have had issues with the agency with things like taking ages to fix heating, promisong the earth moon and stars when I moved in and then nothing getting them lol.

Michael D Not Higgins

okagbue wrote: »

Hi All

Thanks for your help on this. To be honest I am paying under the market rate at the moment. Most 3 beds in the area are about €1100 and I pay €950 so I was expecting an increase when my lease was up just not €300

The main thing that worried me was the fact that they said the increase was effective immediately but now I know how to approach the agency I don't feel so stressed...

I have had issues with the agency with things like taking ages to fix heating, promisong the earth moon and stars when I moved in and then nothing getting them lol.

You said previously that they increased your rent already last summer. What was the increase?

okagbue

it was from 900 to 950

scotchannie

Hi
OP have you thought that the landlord might be wanting you to move out so he/she has decided to increase the rent beyond your means, and thus you will move out and she can have the apartment back to let out at the higher rate to some other gullible person...

just a thought.. :eek:

okagbue

Yea I have thought of that but I am going to put up a fight haha!!

Michael D Not Higgins

okagbue wrote: »

it was from 900 to 950

What area are you renting and where did you get your average rent figure for the area? In fairness, I think you've got a watertight case. Your rent review was less than 12 months ago and you have a lease to cover that. They can't collect any additional rent while you have an outstanding decision with the PRTB.

scotchannie wrote: »

Hi
OP have you thought that the landlord might be wanting you to move out so he/she has decided to increase the rent beyond your means, and thus you will move out and she can have the apartment back to let out at the higher rate to some other gullible person...

just a thought.. :eek:

They can't get them to move out if they lodge a complaint with the PRTB and they can't collect the additional rent before a decision is made. I think it's poor form from either the landlord or the letting agency. If they wanted the OP gone, they should have at least checked the law first.

beauf

scotchannie wrote: »

...to let out at the higher rate to some other gullible person...

Why is the OP and potentially someone else who rents the property "gullible" ?

TheDoc

beauf wrote: »

Why is the OP and potentially someone else who rents the property "gullible" ?

Prospective tenants are acting mental at the moment, and doing silly things under pressure.

Mentioned in another thread, but I was at a group viewing for a house last week. The advertised renting price was €1100, and the viewing had six couples. We walked through the hall into the living room and someone said "We'll take it". Immediately another coupled responded offering €1200

We were walking out when the auction had hit 1700 a month.

People are acting ****ing mental at the moment, and with supply so low, I'm not surprised if landlords do hike prices to try make a feq quid. Personally I'd be happier getting in a longterm tenant for a fixed price, rather then take a gamble on a few extra quid short term. But sure that's what people do, see $$$ signs and do silly things.

beauf

They would be gullible is the LL was asking above the market rate. But if theres a bunch of people all willing to offer the asking, or above. Then that is the market rate. I'd think long and hard about pricing out a good tenant. But a difference of €600+ a month is massive.