Toyota now fitting BMW diesel engines

bazz26

I see Toyota have just launched the Verso with a new BMW made 1.6 D-4D 110bhp engine from the MINI, to replace their old 2.0 D-4D unit. The Avensis is getting it later in the year. Will be interesting to see how this goes. :pac:

forestgray

bazz26 wrote: »

I see Toyota have just launched the Verso with a new BMW made 1.6 D-4D 110bhp engine from the MINI, to replace their old 2.0 D-4D unit. The Avensis is getting it later in the year. Will be interesting to see how this goes. :pac:

Interestingly BMW well also benefit by getting Toyota hybrid technology as part of the deal.

Sounds very promising for both brands

colm_mcm

So toyota have the PSA 1.6 D-4D and BMW 1.6 D-4D now

They really need to put that engine in the Corolla.

Peak power at 4000 rpm :eek:

Stavros Murphy

bazz26 wrote: »

I see Toyota have just launched the Verso with a new BMW made 1.6 D-4D 110bhp engine from the MINI, to replace their old 2.0 D-4D unit. The Avensis is getting it later in the year. Will be interesting to see how this goes. :pac:

d4d was crap anyway. How bad could it be?

sawdoubters

The 111-horsepower engine is coupled to a Toyota transmission and joins the Verso range as the fourth (and least powerful) engine in the lineup, alongside the 122hp 2.0 diesel and the gasoline options with 1.6 liters and 160 hp and 1.8 for 180


http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/12/20131202-verso.html

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote: »

So toyota have the PSA 1.6 D-4D and BMW 1.6 D-4D now

What do they use the PSA unit in? I thought the PSA-Ace was 2.0?

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

d4d was crap anyway. How bad could it be?

To be fair the 2.0D-4D in the Avensis was a decent lump if a little sedated. A lot more reliable than BMW's N47 engine anyway.

colm_mcm

The proAce short wheelbase is 1.6 hdi powered.

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote: »

The proAce short wheelbase is 1.6 hdi powered.

Good Lord, hope you won't have anything heavy to carry around in one of those.

Stavros Murphy

colm_mcm wrote: »

The proAce short wheelbase is 1.6 hdi powered.

Sacrilege. We're doomed. Doomed I tells ya.

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Good Lord, hope you won't have anything heavy to carry around in one of those.

Kids are light

bazz26

and carpet... :pac:

Leonard Hofstadter

Well look on the bright side, at least because the engine will be mounted transversely it doesn't matter which side of the engine the timing chain is on for when it inevitably fails:pac::D!

I thought the timing chain problem was supposed to have been sorted by now, though?

Anyhow, if Toyota insist on a 15,000 km service interval it should be less likely than the BMW engines to develop problems.

forestgray

bazz26 wrote: »

Good Lord, hope you won't have anything heavy to carry around in one of those.

I thought that was the old model only?

bazz26

I've been reading that timing chains are still failing on F10 and F30 cars, though on a way smaller level than previously. But that could easily be down to the fact that the F10 and F30 are still relatively new models. The jury is still out on that for me.

It would be interesting to see how Toyota would deal with such a widespread issue. You would imagine if a company was buying engines from another manufacturer to fit in their own cars that they would have done some due diligence before hand especially if that engine had a history of problems. Time will tell though.

colm_mcm

Funny that its gone from BMW fitting Yaris Diesel engines in MINIs to Toyota fitting MINI diesel engines in Avensiss

bazz26

The tragic thing is that the country will be awash with small capacity diesel engine large cars like the Avensis. The Passat is a typical example, 95% of them sold here now are 1.6 TDi. Will be difficult enough to find a decent size engine here soon enough.

mickdw

bazz26 wrote: »

The tragic thing is that the country will be awash with small capacity diesel engine large cars like the Avensis. The Passat is a typical example, 95% of them sold here now are 1.6 TDi. Will be difficult enough to find a decent size engine here soon enough.

Its sickening looking through the cars sales sites to honest. No decent petrol cars at all and the trend towards smaller and smaller diesels is a joke. The 1.6 tdi Passat is gutless and despite being the same bhp as the old 1.9, is not as suited to the car although much smother engine.

HandsomeDan

mickdw wrote: »

Its sickening looking through the cars sales sites to honest. No decent petrol cars at all and the trend towards smaller and smaller diesels is a joke. The 1.6 tdi Passat is gutless and despite being the same bhp as the old 1.9, is not as suited to the car although much smother engine.

Any number of large high power petrols around as long as you buy new.

If the new car buyer wants a small diesel that's entirely their prerogative.

Beggars can't be choosers as they say.

Tea 1000

mickdw wrote: »

Its sickening looking through the cars sales sites to honest. No decent petrol cars at all and the trend towards smaller and smaller diesels is a joke. The 1.6 tdi Passat is gutless and despite being the same bhp as the old 1.9, is not as suited to the car although much smother engine.

The 1.9 TDi in the B6 Passat was just as gutless. It wasn't bad in the B5 and 5.5 though. Not sure why, there wasn't any massive weight gain or anything.
I think Toyota need an all-new Avensis with their new design language and a 184bhp diesel from BMW (with a tougher timing chain!!) to start regaining credibility and to start building a fleet worthy of the GT86 starting point!

unkel

colm_mcm wrote: »

Funny that its gone from BMW fitting Yaris Diesel engines in MINIs to Toyota fitting MINI diesel engines in Avensiss

BMW had no intention to make small diesel engines. So they did a deal with Toyota to fit the 1.4d into the MINI.

This was a mistake as the Toyota engine was simply to dull and gutless for the discerning MINI driver

BMW then fitted the Peugeot 1.6d, which no doubt was far superior, but obviously not good enough, so they must have decided that after all, they were going to build their own small diesel

Toyota then must have decided that it was cheaper to use a small BMW diesel rather than continue / develop their own small diesels...

Zubeneschamali

bazz26 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see how Toyota would deal with such a widespread issue.

On past form, change the engines quietly without any fuss.

mickdw

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The 1.9 TDi in the B6 Passat was just as gutless.!

The 1.6 is worse in that the smaller capacity relies on the turbo even more. Father has one having had a few 1.9tdi in the Passat. The 1.6 is terrible climbing around blind country lanes where you are down to a crawl rounding bends. It needs first gear at places that I haven't seen since we owned petrol Fiat mirafiori in 1983 and at that, the Fiat was better once warmed up.
That's a very specific case though and the 1.6 is better on the move.

mickdw

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Any number of large high power petrols around as long as you buy new.

If the new car buyer wants a small diesel that's entirely their prerogative.

Beggars can't be choosers as they say.

I'm not even referring to large high powered car just nice petrol cars like 5 series etc.
I bought new last time and bought a 1.8T Petrol audi. The options are dwindling all the time though for petrol and I'm not overly convinced by the next generation super small petrol engines either.

Leonard Hofstadter

The 1.6 TDI Passat is dreadful, frankly. Way too underpowered, nowhere near enough oomph for a car that size. If the 2.0 TDCi in the Mondeo is anything to go by, a 2.0 TDI or else even a 1.4 TSI Passat would be much, much better.

ofcork

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The 1.9 TDi in the B6 Passat was just as gutless. It wasn't bad in the B5 and 5.5 though. Not sure why, there wasn't any massive weight gain or anything.
I think Toyota need an all-new Avensis with their new design language and a 184bhp diesel from BMW (with a tougher timing chain!!) to start regaining credibility and to start building a fleet worthy of the GT86 starting point!

I assume there will be a new avensis in 2015 as the current one is around since 09,bar a facelift in 2011.

godtabh

unkel wrote: »

BMW had no intention to make small diesel engines. So they did a deal with Toyota to fit the 1.4d into the MINI.

This was a mistake as the Toyota engine was simply to dull and gutless for the discerning MINI driver

BMW then fitted the Peugeot 1.6d, which no doubt was far superior, but obviously not good enough, so they must have decided that after all, they were going to build their own small diesel

Toyota then must have decided that it was cheaper to use a small BMW diesel rather than continue / develop their own small diesels...

I thought that was a Citroen developed Peugeot used 1.6 hdi?

bazz26

unkel wrote: »

BMW had no intention to make small diesel engines. So they did a deal with Toyota to fit the 1.4d into the MINI.

This was a mistake as the Toyota engine was simply to dull and gutless for the discerning MINI driver

BMW then fitted the Peugeot 1.6d, which no doubt was far superior, but obviously not good enough, so they must have decided that after all, they were going to build their own small diesel

Toyota then must have decided that it was cheaper to use a small BMW diesel rather than continue / develop their own small diesels...

If the MINI driver was really discerning they wouldn't be choosing a diesel car to begin with.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

On past form, change the engines quietly without any fuss.

That seems to be an old wives tale to me to be honest. So drop your Toyota in for a service, pop back a few hours later and they have swapped the engine. Those Toyota mechanics must be super human to turn that around in such a short time. But still better than BMW's stance of asking the owner to still pay their dealer a lot of money to fix a design issue and then spin it as them offering goodwill.