Games with creative vision

nyarlothothep

Just thought I'd post this review of Doom, the end gets really interesting, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyOF2RsO3ck
Basically he's saying that the game was the unique product of the imaginations of a bunch of 20 somethings and that you wouldn't get such a singular vision in modern fps titles because they're made through design by committee. I don't know much about indie titles, although he compares Doom to them, but I think Doom was perfectly placed in between indie and professional, the tools were there to realise their vision but the creative process wasn't yet hijacked by capitalist banality. So yeah, I'd like to see new games like Doom because its creative vision was cool. I didn't really like Mirror's Edge for example because I thought it was boring and made me feel sick, also the overuse of ambient occlusion was suffocating.

Temptamperu

All games start with creative vision. Used to be that game would get made just as is but now with massive business models rivaling the movie business art goes by the wayside and we get basically what we have now.

Syferus

I'd describe Doom as an incredibly bad creative vision. Seminal gameplay merged with the artistic vision of a five year-old with a firearms fetish.

Mirror's Edge is a far better example of a complete creative vision than Doom, and it has a poor story too.

dreamers75

Syferus wrote: »

I'd describe Doom as an incredibly bad creative vision. Seminal gameplay merged with the artistic vision of a five year-old with a firearms fetish.

Now 2014 or then 1990s ?

nyarlothothep

Basically what I'm saying is that I want another Doom or something that appeals to my imagination like that. Doom 3 just didn't do it for me, it had all the elements, metal, demons, space marines, but it was plastic, it was too commercial, there was none of that attitude that comes from working until 3 am listening to metallica/playing d&d while eating pizza (great job incidentally). We need more of that! And less professionalism but that is a pipe dream.

johnny_ultimate

So in other words you don't want a game with a unique creative vision, but rather one that apes or at least conforms to the creative vision of a 20 year old game? Surely the likes of Serious Sam, Painkiller and more would suit that very particular niche?

There's no shortage of creative, unique games out there - in fact, it's damn near impossible to keep track of them all. I've just spent the last 45 minutes playing a black & white claymation musical point and click adventure about a gender ambiguous detective, which has spent much of its time critiquing autotune culture in popular music. So... yeah.

nyarlothothep

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

So in other words you don't want a game with a unique creative vision, but rather one that apes or at least conforms to the creative vision of a 20 year old game? Surely the likes of Serious Sam, Painkiller and more would suit that very particular niche?

There's no shortage of creative, unique games out there - in fact, it's damn near impossible to keep track of them all. I've just spent the last 45 minutes playing a black & white claymation musical point and click adventure about a gender ambiguous detective, which has spent much of its time critiquing autotune culture in popular music. So... yeah.

Well no, not exactly. I played Serious Sam 12 years ago and wasn't all that impressed. Doom and Quake have a mood, a generally badass singular mood that captures the imagination, it's the Lovecraftian influence which can also be found in Gozer's temple in Ghostbusters I think. I love that idiosyncratic vision. And what was so cool about Quake is that soundtrack is totally out of leftfield, it would never happen now, but the way it's not metal at all, or what's conventionally expected of a game makes it way more atmospheric and original. That's what I want in games. And I also want more esoterica, occultism, symbolism etc or anything for that matter, but preferably games which speak to me of which there are, like films and novels, few to none. I guess this is essentially harking on about the 'good old days' but I generally think corporatisation of any field is the death knell of creativity and generally anything that is artistically beautiful, everything becomes rationalised according to the religion of profit maximisation often with negative outcomes and the tragedy is the fact that it happens at all.

johnny_ultimate

Honestly? Most of what you just said is absolute rubbish, based on nothing but random, incredibly limited generalisations. If you think there's a dearth of games that are 'artistically beautiful' and not commercialised crap then you're not looking hard enough, or indeed very hard at all. Either that, or the impression I'm getting, you have a perilously limited 'type' of game you like (basically: Doom, System Shock). Here's some for you to try, from a range of different styles and genres:

Journey
Thirty Flights of Loving
Dominique Pamplemoose
Outlast
Hotline Miami
Jazzpunk
Dear Esther
Gone Home
Device 6
Year Walk (I'd imagine you'd be particularly fond of this gem)
The Room 1 + 2 (overflowing with occultism)
Dust: An Elysian Tale
Papa & Yo
Lone Survivor
Kentucky Route Zero
Legends of Grimrock
Don't Starve
Limbo
Braid
Amnesia (again, particularly recommended)
Brothers
Papers, Please
Shelter
To The Moon
Papa Sangre II (particular emphasis)
Superbrothers: Sword and Sorcery EP

If you think all of those are bereft of creativity and mere products of empty commerce, then I cannot help you sir.

nyarlothothep

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Honestly? Most of what you just said is absolute rubbish, based on nothing but random, incredibly limited generalisations. If you think there's a dearth of games that are 'artistically beautiful' and not commercialised crap then you're not looking hard enough, or indeed very hard at all. Either that, or the impression I'm getting, you have a perilously limited 'type' of game you like (basically: Doom, System Shock). Here's some for you to try, from a range of different styles and genres:

Journey
Thirty Flights of Loving
Dominique Pamplemoose
Outlast
Hotline Miami
Jazzpunk
Dear Esther
Gone Home
Device 6
Year Walk (I'd imagine you'd be particularly fond of this gem)
Dust: An Elysian Tale
Papa & Yo
Lone Survivor
Kentucky Route Zero
Legends of Grimrock
Don't Starve
Limbo
Braid
Amnesia (again, particularly recommended)
Brothers
Papers, Please
Shelter
To The Moon
Papa Sangre II (particular emphasis)
Superbrothers: Sword and Sorcery EP

If you think all of those are bereft of creativity and mere products of empty commerce, then I cannot help you sir.

I don't like System Shock. Well yeah I think the games industry is quite corporatised to it's detriment, ditto for the film industry, academia etc but that's a wider point about corporatisation and neo liberal philosophy it clings to itself. If you think that's rubbish then that's ok, you're entitled to your opinion.

Temptamperu

Corporatised business? you do realise you live in a capitalist world and none of those great games mr ultimate just posted wouldn't be made without corporations. Its a **** system but its all we got

You really need to delve deeper or try Steam, theirs loads of creative vision there

nyarlothothep

Ah I just got nostalgic for Doom and Quake, they really opened up a whole creative lexicon for me, space, demons, medieval, futuristic etc...but I'm reminded through this how essentially bland modern games (especially fps games like Call of Duty which are just neither here nor there, meh basically) and how this is most probably linked to that design by committee aspect which ruins many a great idea because it's not commercial enough.

nesf

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Legends of Grimrock

What? This game is a homage to an old genre of RPGs. Sure it's very far from commericalised shovelware but very creative? No, its appeal is that it's not particularly creative and instead evocative of a time in gaming long past. By this measure some of the 1C stuff that pays tribute to fanstay hex based wargames of almost 20 years ago, like Fantasy Wars or Elven Legacy being spiritual successors to Fantasy General, or the Slitherine game Panzer Corps for the SSI game Panzer General all fall into the same category.

I love all the games above and recommend them to anyone who enjoyed the originals they are inspired by but I'd really hesitate to call any of them games with particularly strong creative vision. Not being mainstream commercial does not equal having a strong creative vision, nor does the latter mean something will be any good (Black & White stands out in my memory as something very new being tried that just wasn't very good unfortunately).

nesf

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I don't like System Shock. Well yeah I think the games industry is quite corporatised to it's detriment, ditto for the film industry, academia etc but that's a wider point about corporatisation and neo liberal philosophy it clings to itself. If you think that's rubbish then that's ok, you're entitled to your opinion.

Academia is corporatised now? Has Sir walked into a Philosophy department recently? (yes, sarcasm)

nesf

Actually, on a side note, often I've found the better game isn't the creative ground breaker but the subsequent refinements on the concept either in sequels or competing games. Dune II was a true breakthrough in strategy games but most people found Command & Conquer better but neither really stand up to more modern titles like Starcraft I, Company of Heroes I etc. The core idea of competing factions in an RTS are still there, most of the refinement came in terms of UI improvements allowing the player more control over what was happening, hardware improvements meaning improved AI for pathfinding especially and things like Fog of War being implemented (again mostly hardware improvements). It's not that Dune II or C&C were bad or poor games, far from it, it's just concepts like these need to be iterated on and experimented with and ideally gone through many different pairs of hands on the way so fresh thinking is applied.

nesf

My nomination to the OP: AI War: http://store.steampowered.com/app/40400/

I've sunk in over 340 hours into this game since I bought it in 2011. I've never played any strategy game before or since that does what it does, never mind does it so damn well. It's also is immensely difficult, it's one of those games strategy vets start off with the beginner settings on. :P (well, not quite, but close and the hardest settings are more for people seeing how long they can survive than victory and are meant to be that way). It's an asymmetrical strategy game, you are always outnumbered, always outgunned and direct head-on conflict will get you killed regardless of how good you are. You win by eventually (after 10s and 10s of hours of careful eeking out an existence quietly) taking out both AIs with pinpoint strikes. Usually whilst still not controlling almost all of the galaxy. It's complicated to explain why it's so addictive, I suppose it's the same reason playing Civilisation on Diety is so compelling, you feel like you're not supposed to win so that makes achieving it one time out of every ten attempts so satisfying.

Edit: I suppose the wiki can give some idea of the scope: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War:Fleet_Command (most of this stuff would be the "basics," the forums are where the advanced stuff is discussed)

Lukehandypants

I'd say if u are looking for games with creative vision or that ain't made to sell the most copies possible, then look on steam for games like super meat boy and Fez and then maybe watch indie gamer great doc about the devolpment of those game and how workin on games can mess up ur life.

Mainstream games are made to appeal to as many people as possible eg the Cod franchise itappeals to the 10 year old to 40 year old who like things simple and uncomplicated, ie shot anything that moves. (please don't play it while listening to the chatter, u will loose faith in humanity.)
That saying some mainstream games are art assassins creed 2 is a beautiful game.
It is filled with beautiful details the cities are beautiful particular when u have actually been to those cites it just adds a whole new layer to it.

Games are about what u want and how u want to play.
There are games for everyone if u want to buy yer games from gamespot, well ur only gonna get what the EA games of this world want to sell u.
Look on steam.