Garda Check

mackeminexile

Hi, so I was asked yesterday to go and get a Garda Check for work. I've been in employment for 2 years with the same company without one. They are applying for Trust Service provider. My question is, can this be forced on me legally? What can happen if I refuse? I have to state here that I have nothing to hide, I just don't like to be pushed into doing stuff like this.

Mr. Loverman

Refuse to do it, pissing off your manager and HR, damaging your career.

Or just do it and have no problems.

Your choice!

baby and crumble

Garda Checks are standard for piles of jobs. You can't put in your own request, afaik, your employer has to do it.

I see it as similar to the standard pre employment medical. No biggie.

mackeminexile

Fairly pragmatic answer. I'm aware of the potential ramifications in terms of pissing off my manager. Just need to know if there's a legal obligation really

roadsmart

I'd say they are looking for your consent for THEM to have you vetted. Don't think you can apply yourself.

Mrs OBumble

Technically, the requirement to undergo Garda Vetting is a change to your terms and conditions (probably - this is my guess, not legal advice).

Also if they are becoming a "Trust Service provider" (I have no idea what that is), then there might be a change to them or to your duties, too.

So technically, it may be that your current position is ceasing to exist, and a new one with different requirements and duties is available. if you cannot meet these new conditions, then technically you would probably be entitled to redundancy.

But, to an outsider it's gonna look like you didn't get the "new job" 'cos you didn't pass the garda check, rather than because you didn't want to do it.

So it could create a perception which makes it harder for you to get a new job.

Your call, really, whether a redundancy is adequate compensation for having this perception around.

mackeminexile

good answer thanks, that is along the lines of what I was thinking. It seems to be an unnecessary requirement to be honest. I'm weighing up if it's going to get me in the bad books or not.

baby and crumble

mackeminexile wrote: »

good answer thanks, that is along the lines of what I was thinking. It seems to be an unnecessary requirement to be honest. I'm weighing up if it's going to get me in the bad books or not.

I'd imagine it almost certainly will.

What exactly is a trust service provider?

hfallada

They takes months for the garda vetting to come through. If you dont have a criminal past, why should you worry? There is probably items ten times worse on your social media profiles

pow wow

I assume they mean garda vetting and not a police certificate. Average turnaround time for vetting at the moment is 4-6 weeks. OP you would have to sign the form giving your permission to be vetted - they cannot initiate it without your signature. Once they apply the rule equally to all staff (i.e. Everyone is vetted or everyone isn't) then I can't really see the issue. There are strict Data Protection regulations with regard to the processing and handling of garda vetting forms/results.

Mrs OBumble

pow wow wrote: »

Average turnaround time for vetting at the moment is 4-6 weeks. OP you would have to sign the form giving your permission to be vetted - they cannot initiate it without your signature.

Averages are meaningless: I've seen vettings come thru in a week, for an organisation where it was in the guards interest to have the org keep doing vets - while at the same time people here were complaining that for jobs they were taking months.

From a job-perspective, an important question is whether you can keep working until the vet comes thru.

As well as your signature, they need you to fill in every address that you've lived in for six months or more. (Or at least that's what they asked for last time I filled in a form).

MouseTail

If it is a legislative requirement of the job, I would imagine refusal to cooperate could be grounds for dismissal.

pow wow

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Averages are meaningless: I've seen vettings come thru in a week, for an organisation where it was in the guards interest to have the org keep doing vets - while at the same time people here were complaining that for jobs they were taking months.

From a job-perspective, an important question is whether you can keep working until the vet comes thru.

As well as your signature, they need you to fill in every address that you've lived in for six months or more. (Or at least that's what they asked for last time I filled in a form).

Averages aren't meaningless, at the moment it takes between 4 and 6 weeks. It used to take a lot longer and at the moment it doesn't, unless there is an issue with the content of the form or further enquiries are being conducted. I handle GV as a significant part of my job and that's where my experience is coming from. You are right that you have to give every address from birth to date (irrespective of duration), including periods spent abroad. The OP seemed concerned that this might be forced upon him/her which is why I was clarifying that ultimately his/her signature is required so even if his/her employer had all of their previous addresses, they couldn't submit a form for vetting without the OP's signed consent.

Whether they wish to be vetted in a role that wouldn't usually have necessitated it is ultimately up to them and they are free to refuse if they wish.

K_P

Hi OP,

At the moment there's no legislative basis for this but the general guideline is that anyone with significant unsuperivsed access to children or vulnerable adults should be vetted.

However, there is legislation imminent. The National Vetting Bureau (Children and Vulnerable Persons) Act was enacted at the end of 2012 and is due to be commenced any day now. It will make it a criminal offence for an organisation to employ someone as paid staff or as a volunteer to carry out particular categories of work if they haven't been vetted. They types of work all relate to working closely with children or vulnerable adults.

It also has provisions for the re-vetting of staff and the retrospective vetting of staff, which would be your position. They will be prioritising the retrospective vetting of staff as that's seen as more urgent due to the thousands of people working in positions with vulnerable people who have possibly never been vetted.

I don't know what exactly your job entails OP, but it's likely your company is aware of this legislation and wants to be ahead of things.

MouseTail

I think Trust Service Provision has something to do with prevention of money laundering, rather than access to children or vulnerable adults. I really don't know what the legislation is regarding this and garda vetting.

K_P

MouseTail wrote: »

I think Trust Service Provision has something to do with prevention of money laundering, rather than access to children or vulnerable adults. I really don't know what the legislation is regarding this and garda vetting.

In that case, to the best of my knowledge, there's no legal obligation to be vetted.

I know of two different types of work where it is mandatory, but thats not the same as a legal requirement.

One is working in fraud prevention for a bank and the other is working in a organisation funded by the HSE it was part of the service level agreement plan.

mackeminexile

It's an anti-money laundering/fraud prevention thing. I work as a manager of a service provider. As far as I can tell there is no reason that I would be legally required to do this.

baby and crumble

mackeminexile wrote: »

It's an anti-money laundering/fraud prevention thing. I work as a manager of a service provider. As far as I can tell there is no reason that I would be legally required to do this.

I still don't understand why it's an issue for you though. If you have to do it as part of your job- whether there's a legal requirement or not- then you have to. There are many policies in place in companies that have no basis in "law" necessarily, but they still exist and you have to abide by them.

What's the big deal?

mackeminexile

I'm not in the habit of always doing what I'm told, I like to question things and not always accept the status quo. In this instance I'm not a fan of being forced to go through an invasive (figuratively speaking) procedure to tick boxes unnecessarily. Whether I'm fit and proper in this sense has little to do with the actual service that the company provides. We've been providing this service without it for over 20 years.

sawdoubters

my guess is they can fire you,


http://www.garda.ie/controller.aspx?Page=1548

Mrs OBumble

pow wow wrote: »

Averages aren't meaningless, at the moment it takes between 4 and 6 weeks. It used to take a lot longer and at the moment it doesn't,

At the moment, your company is getting them in 4-6 weeks.

I'll pretty much guarantee that my fomer company is still getting them in 1-2 weeks.

Goodness only knows how long it will take for the OP.

Turtyturd

Took me 10 weeks and that was only recently.

sambuka41

In my job Garda Clearance take anything up to 5 months, shortest time back was 11 weeks. In my previous job I waited 3 months to start. (both jobs were with kids and vulnerable adults)

pow wow

sambuka41 wrote: »

In my job Garda Clearance take anything up to 5 months, shortest time back was 11 weeks. In my previous job I waited 3 months to start. (both jobs were with kids and vulnerable adults)

Is that 5 months from when you handed the form to your employer, or 5 months from when the garda vetting unit received it? The point I'm making is that the difference between the date they are received it the garda vetting unit and the date when the results are returned is rarely months at the moment and hasn't been since mid/late last year.

OP have you raised your concerns with HR? Informally even? Just to see where they stand on the issue?

sambuka41

pow wow wrote: »

Is that 5 months from when you handed the form to your employer, or 5 months from when the garda vetting unit received it? The point I'm making is that the difference between the date they are received it the garda vetting unit and the date when the results are returned is rarely months at the moment and hasn't been since mid/late last year.

5 months since it went to the unit, I am a manager getting vetting for staff, and obviously they are stamped when completed so you can see when they came back. I have lost countless good staff due to the long wait.

I've been told all kinds of conspiracy theories about some companies making deals to get theirs quicker, I work for a charity so money is tight and no one is making deals for us

Op I don't really see the problem with this, if you have nothing to hide then why make a fuss? Times are a changing, and organisations are covering themselves as much as possible. Personally I think there are worse things you could be asked to do, is it worth fighting over?

skimpydoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

As well as your signature, they need you to fill in every address that you've lived in for six months or more. (Or at least that's what they asked for last time I filled in a form).

That would be kind of hard as I have lived in over 14 addresses and most of them I would not have the address of as it was so long ago starting from when I was born.

pow wow

sambuka41 wrote: »

5 months since it went to the unit, I am a manager getting vetting for staff, and obviously they are stamped when completed so you can see when they came back. I have lost countless good staff due to the long wait.

I've been told all kinds of conspiracy theories about some companies making deals to get theirs quicker, I work for a charity so money is tight and no one is making deals for us

Op I don't really see the problem with this, if you have nothing to hide then why make a fuss? Times are a changing, and organisations are covering themselves as much as possible. Personally I think there are worse things you could be asked to do, is it worth fighting over?

Have you chased them on that delay? I'm a manager who vets hundreds of people per year and everything comes back within 4 weeks (currently) unless there are additional enquiries being made (in which case I'm informed of that). We have no special deal, although I know that forms may on occasion be expedited in exceptional circumstances (ours are never urgent luckily!) The official line is that the turnaround time is 4 weeks so if you're the AS for your org it might be worth checking with your assigned contact at GVU to see why there is such a delay in processing your forms.

@skimpydoo vetting would be returned as incomplete if there are any gaps in a residency record between birth-current date. Even if you don't know the house number etc. the street and area will often suffice, though the more information the better.

@OP any update re. your situation? There is a distinct shift toward vetting in particular areas of financial services and if this is not currently part of your company's employment contracts it may well become one. How they would implement that to existing contracts is another matter.

Mrs OBumble

skimpydoo wrote: »

That would be kind of hard as I have lived in over 14 addresses and most of them I would not have the address of as it was so long ago starting from when I was born.

The form is long, and you can attach another piece of paper if needed.

In case you ever need to get vetted, it would be wise to start keeping a list, and asking your parents etc for help with the addresses.

murphym7

I really don’t see an issue and why you would need to be so awkward about it. If they asked to do a credit check, or do a garda check on your extended family, I could see an issue., Life is too short to spend time being unnecessarily awkward on this one, unless you have something to hide of course. If one of my direct reports pulled this attitude with me, the future would not be bright for them.

Life is too short, just give the consent.

genericguy

If you're kicking up a stink over this you definitely have something to hide.

mackeminexile

not yet, I'm speaking with my manager next week about it

mackeminexile

You came in to the thread to add that? Must be a quiet day so

mackeminexile

@OP any update re. your situation? There is a distinct shift toward vetting in particular areas of financial services and if this is not currently part of your company's employment contracts it may well become one. How they would implement that to existing contracts is another matter.[/QUOTE]

That's the thing. It's not financial services in any way and couldn't be construed as such. It'll be interesting to see what answer/reason I'm given. While I'm not daft and if there's going to be trouble over me not wanting to do this without good reason then obviously I'll comply.

Holsten

Which sector is the job?

mackeminexile

Rather not say without making it really, really easy to find out who I am! I'm now being told that there is no legal requirement for me to do it. I'm going to seek legal advice on this actually. I'm now not comfortable about how open it leaves me to someone abusing the system and me taking the flak for it.

Mr. Loverman

Whether or not you have nothing to hide, you're making it seem like you have something very bad you want to hide.

Frankly it's not believable you're going to such lengths (seeking legal advice!) just on principle.

You're damaging your career.