Crossfit

Crossfit Corcaigh

Hey, What are yer views on Crossfit? I'm just trying to gauge general views and perceptions for some research I am doing!

SeaDaily

Crossfit Corcaigh wrote: »

Hey, What are yer views on Crossfit? I'm just trying to gauge general views and perceptions for some research I am doing!

I think it is an overpriced, very well marketed way of taking money from people. It is just glorified Olympic lifting in my opinion with a few additional exercises thrown in for good measure. It might work for a select group of people who have literally no self-motivation but other than that it totally pointless.

hidinginthebush

It largely depends on where you do it. From what I've read it's not too hard to become a trainer in cf, so some of the people teaching it are having people lifting with terrible form. Plus they seem to put kipping pullups above actual pullups.

Over-priced, but if you have a one of the good places doing it, could be worth your while if the motivation it provides justifies the price.

Stillweak

Its got some great points and some bad points.

Ignore the coach qualifications. Is hes good, hes good. If hes bad hes bad. Wheather it took him a day course or a 3 year degree course to get ''qualified'' is irrelivant.
The real education doesnt come in a class room or seminar.

The Good

- Its good fun
- gets you fitter and stronger
- the group mentality does make you work harder
- for average people they will do things they never thought they could do
- you will probably make some friends
- it will lead tou you eating better and drinking less

The Bad

- you will talk about crossfit non stop
- you might turn into a paleo geek
- you will probably feel you are a professional athlete. Youre not.
- there is so much cheating in every crossfit gym ( to get better score on white board )
- injuries are likely

The worst

- A lot of people who should be playing real sport are wasting their talent in crossfit and normal gyms

Crossfit Corcaigh

Thanks for the replies lads,

One more question. If you were considering joining what would you be looking for? i.e what are the priorities. Or if you have participated in crossfit like activities what would you change about it? Cheers

hidinginthebush

I can't really comment too much on this, but make sure you go to a place that puts a strong emphasis on form. By brother in law goes to a place that you'll get collared if you start compromising form to get through a set. I think the main criticism on CF is that it uses olympic lifts in a circuit training scenario, so you have to try to rush through a set of exercises that you should take your time getting done. Though that can all be taken with a large grain of salt.

To be honest, you are in the right place to be asking these question, the lads in this forum will be able to input more on the potential dangers of doing strong lifts with bad form or impatience. Though you could also search the fitness form. Here's a pretty funny,tongue in cheek overview of crossfit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnjYyfkcaNI

davyjose

I think this:

LuckyLloyd

Crossfit Corcaigh wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads,

One more question. If you were considering joining what would you be looking for? i.e what are the priorities. Or if you have participated in crossfit like activities what would you change about it? Cheers

- Focus on strength. Program the compound lifts with the objective of getting progressively stronger at them;
- One size fits all programming is dumb. Yes, everyone can do the same movements on the same day, but a beginner to weight training doesn't need to be doing percentage work or 1 rep max tests. They should be doing linear progression for their first ~half year. Similarly, scale metcons and where scaling defeats the purpose of a metcon program more than one for an individual day;
- If you want to program Olympic lifting dedicate the required time to it. Have a day or two a week where people come in and focus on the two lifts and associated assistance for an hour. If your Snatch programming is 15 minutes one day a week + reps thrown into metcons where people are gassed and fatigued you may as well not program them at all imo;
- Rebounding box jumps; deadlift sumo high pulls; super high rep 'chipper' metcons are dumb, don't program them;

In general, think about risk versus reward in terms of your client's training. There's a fine line of course, some people are joining because they think Crossfit is cool and they genuinely want to a version of the competitive sport of Crossfit. Other people just want to get fitter / move better / look better. As such, maybe teaching and programming Power Cleans could make more sense than full cleans; Power Snatches rather than full snatches; strict pull ups rather than kipping, etc:

http://powerathletehq.com/2013/12/17/power-pulls-performance/

Finally, think about the type of training environment you want to create. In an ideal world, a beginner will understand that they need to start light and slow, learn the movements etc and feel comfortable being in the same facility as guys deadlifting 200+ who hit the hardest metcons with intensity. And EVERYONE should be mindful of good movement and form. If your programming and coaching is right, people in the former will consistently morph into the latter over a long time scale.

Now, that's just my opinion of course. Best of luck with your box whatever you do.

Crossfit Corcaigh

-snip- I allowed the feedback but no advertising please

FastFullBack

Crossfit Corcaigh wrote: »

-snip-

Just curious why you dont have mentioned anywhere on the facebook page where exactly the gym is located. This is surely a top factor for anyone joining the gym.

Alf Veedersane

FastFullBack wrote: »

Just curious why you dont have mentioned anywhere on the facebook page where exactly the gym is located. This is surely a top factor for anyone joining the gym.

There is no gym:

"This is a business concept for a social media strategy for college and is NOT OFFICIAL."

TGJD

Crossfit Corcaigh wrote: »

Hey, What are yer views on Crossfit? I'm just trying to gauge general views and perceptions for some research I am doing!

Crossfit places a huge emphasis on
form... and not needing it. I kid, but that is the first thing that came to mind. Some merit to it but I wouldnt be a fan of it myself. To each their own.

Hanley

Everyone know's it CrossFit.

I hope you're not an affiliate. HQ will have a sh*tfit.

Maars

Stillweak wrote: »

....

The worst

- A lot of people who should be playing real sport are wasting their talent in crossfit and normal gyms

No no no...if anything it is the opposite. Those that couldnt make it in organised, competitive sport sometimes end up at Crossfit.

dylbert

Maars wrote: »

No no no...if anything it is the opposite. Those that couldnt make it in organised, competitive sport sometimes end up at Crossfit.

The funny thing is that the fitness, strength and mobility of the average GAA/soccer player is terrible when compared to a crossfit athlete.

Maars

dylbert wrote: »

The funny thing is that the fitness, strength and mobility of the average GAA/soccer player is terrible when compared to a crossfit athlete.

Thats a fairly massive generalisation there and completely unsubstantiated.

Here's another one for you. The average crossfitter wouldnt get their name on the teamsheet ahead of the average Gaelic/soccer player.

The strength/mobility/fitness of a crossfitter is not a yardstick for measuring ability to play organised, competitive sports.

usersame

Stillweak wrote: »

Its got some great points and some bad points.

Ignore the coach qualifications. Is hes good, hes good. If hes bad hes bad. Wheather it took him a day course or a 3 year degree course to get ''qualified'' is irrelivant.
The real education doesnt come in a class room or seminar.

The Good

- Its good fun
- gets you fitter and stronger
- the group mentality does make you work harder
- for average people they will do things they never thought they could do
- you will probably make some friends
- it will lead tou you eating better and drinking less

The Bad

- you will talk about crossfit non stop
- you might turn into a paleo geek
- you will probably feel you are a professional athlete. Youre not.
- there is so much cheating in every crossfit gym ( to get better score on white board )
- injuries are likely

The worst

- A lot of people who should be playing real sport are wasting their talent in crossfit and normal gyms

That's crossfit in a nutshell

I would add that it's a bit culty

usersame

Maars wrote: »

Thats a fairly massive generalisation there and completely unsubstantiated.

Here's another one for you. The average crossfitter wouldnt get their name on the teamsheet ahead of the average Gaelic/soccer player.

The strength/mobility/fitness of a crossfitter is not a yardstick for measuring ability to play organised, competitive sports.

My crossfitting friend who is crap at rugby is still crap at rugby

Frosty McSnowballs

I tried it but my flexibility is so poor so wasn't for me.

The OH does it, she likes it but I think it's stupidly expensive for what you get.

The plan she is on allows her three training sessions a week for just under €1000....that's just a 6 month plan. It's double for the year.

Stillweak

Maars wrote: »

No no no...if anything it is the opposite. Those that couldnt make it in organised, competitive sport sometimes end up at Crossfit.

True but nothing wrong with that. You got to do something.

Stillweak

dylbert wrote: »

The funny thing is that the fitness, strength and mobility of the average GAA/soccer player is terrible when compared to a crossfit athlete.

Thats a bit unfair. The sports player has the small inconvience of actually having to be good at his sport. Its a lot easier to get strong and mobile when thats all youre doing and you dont have to worry about a match on the weekend.

You cant max squat and deadlift so much in season. Crossfit has no season.

LuckyLloyd

dylbert wrote: »

The funny thing is that the fitness, strength and mobility of the average GAA/soccer player is terrible when compared to a crossfit athlete.

Unfortunately it's comments like that which produce a lot of hate for crossfit and understandably so. There's no doubt that your average junior GAA / Soccer team could do away with touching the toes and running laps. A GAA player who is down the gym doing bicep curls and three variations of dumbell bench is also on the wrong track.

But even with the confines of a great Crossfit box you can't practice cutting at high speed, sprinting, establishing body position to fend off an opponent etc, etc. And the most important and vital skill of a field sport is the skill of doing that field sport. A guy training in a good crossfit facility (or any good S & C facility) who has applied himself well over a long period will probably move better than the average bear and have good strength and anerobic endurance. But will that translate to moving fluidly on the field of play? Maybe, maybe not.

Don't forget the mental challenges of playing sport. Crossfit likes to talk a lot of bollocks about 'wod strategy' but all it really comes down to is establishing a consistent workpace and minimising transition times. The mental demands don't come close to the demands placed upon a GAA Half Back.

Stillweak wrote: »

Thats a bit unfair. The sports player has the small inconvience of actually having to be good at his sport. Its a lot easier to get strong and mobile when thats all youre doing and you dont have to worry about a match on the weekend.

You cant max squat and deadlift so much in season. Crossfit has no season.

And this too of course. You would need intelligent and flexible programming to work around your typical amateur football season that gets going sometime in July, ends sometime in May and has no consistency in fixture scheduling (multi week stretches without a game from November through mid February) and multiple weeks in April and May where there might be four games scheduled. That isn't to say there is a lack of knowledge and effort going into how training feeds into all of that, but it's a hell of a lot easier to provide for a steady and predicatble five training sessions a week and program around that.

The only quibble with the above is the fact that there is infact a competitive crossfit session starting next week in the form of the open and, even in the case of guys with no shot at regional qualification, ever more competitions popping up in Ireland and the UK. As such, someone doing crossfit as a sport does have to organise their training cycles to peak at certain times of the year. They can't have a pure strength focus all year round in that scenario, etc.

Any of us doing Crossfit should drop any sense of elitism we hold.

Inspector Coptoor

^^^^
Amen to that Lloyd

dylbert

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Unfortunately it's comments like that which produce a lot of hate for crossfit and understandably so. There's no doubt that your average junior GAA / Soccer team could do away with touching the toes and running laps. A GAA player who is down the gym doing bicep curls and three variations of dumbell bench is also on the wrong track.

But even with the confines of a great Crossfit box you can't practice cutting at high speed, sprinting, establishing body position to fend off an opponent etc, etc. And the most important and vital skill of a field sport is the skill of doing that field sport. A guy training in a good crossfit facility (or any good S & C facility) who has applied himself well over a long period will probably move better than the average bear and have good strength and anerobic endurance. But will that translate to moving fluidly on the field of play? Maybe, maybe not.

Don't forget the mental challenges of playing sport. Crossfit likes to talk a lot of bollocks about 'wod strategy' but all it really comes down to is establishing a consistent workpace and minimising transition times. The mental demands don't come close to the demands placed upon a GAA Half Back.



And this too of course. You would need intelligent and flexible programming to work around your typical amateur football season that gets going sometime in July, ends sometime in May and has no consistency in fixture scheduling (multi week stretches without a game from November through mid February) and multiple weeks in April and May where there might be four games scheduled. That isn't to say there is a lack of knowledge and effort going into how training feeds into all of that, but it's a hell of a lot easier to provide for a steady and predicatble five training sessions a week and program around that.

The only quibble with the above is the fact that there is infact a competitive crossfit session starting next week in the form of the open and, even in the case of guys with no shot at regional qualification, ever more competitions popping up in Ireland and the UK. As such, someone doing crossfit as a sport does have to organise their training cycles to peak at certain times of the year. They can't have a pure strength focus all year round in that scenario, etc.

Any of us doing Crossfit should drop any sense of elitism we hold.

I wasn't trying to imply that a crossfiter would be better at football than a footballer, I was just commenting on the general fitness levels of the two. Fair enough it wasn't the best thought out comment from me but reading all the crossfit bashing here got my back up.

The problem is that most peoples knowledge of crossfit starts and ends with a crossfit fail video on YouTube or a bro story they heard about someone's arm falling.off during a wod, but I don't think anything I say on boards will change their mind either way.

Crossfit's getting bigger and is developing into a sport in its own right. As you say the open starts next week and allot of people have been training hard in preparation, to suggest these people are not real athletes performing in a real sport is a bit small minded.

shneakynaggin

Overpriced and overblown self of importance. The random way "wods" are put together are, along with high rep lifting, is a good way to keep physios in business.

kevpants

Sometimes when I'm walking along the street by myself I can't stop myself from laughing and people from looking at me because I remember one time during a WOD involving some of the world's premier Crossfit athletes someone got run over by a Nascar.

shneakynaggin

kevpants wrote: »

Sometimes when I'm walking along the street by myself I can't stop myself from laughing and people from looking at me because I remember one time during a WOD involving some of the world's premier Crossfit athletes someone got run over by a Nascar.

Really?

kevpants

shneakynaggin wrote: »

Really?

Sorry it was a cop car not a Nascar.

When you think about it, that girl never really moved fast enough to pull the car, there was always slack in the rope. So essentially what she did was go for a run then, as punishment for falling behind, got run over.

shneakynaggin

Sorry it was a cop car not a Nascar.

When you think about it, that girl never really moved fast enough to pull the car, there was always slack in the rope. So essentially what she did was go for a run then, as punishment for falling behind, got run over.

Its so functional though.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

Sorry it was a cop car not a Nascar.

When you think about it, that girl never really moved fast enough to pull the car, there was always slack in the rope. So essentially what she did was go for a run then, as punishment for falling behind, got run over.

You got post of 2011 (?) with Westside explanation, you get 2014 for that.

dylbert

shneakynaggin wrote: »

Its so functional though.

Totally functional, ever have a flat battery

Seriously though it was a stupid thing to do and not a bit impressive, I've pushed a car on my own ffs. Tie a prowler to each of them, that would be far more effective.

CerebralCortex

I do Crossfit, and I have really enjoyed it to date.

While it's great for my needs and resources at the moment I think there is a lot of room for improvement in the way Xfit works. However to date I haven't found anything that fits my needs like it.

I love the class orientated and regimented nature of the training, the fact that I'm coached and that everyone in the class is working together (sharing weights, helping each other out). I get to do Oly lifting and HI workouts and my athleticism and strength has gone through the roof.

The downside is there is a lot of social signalling associated with doing it. That is to say a lot of people do it to tick a box (no pun intended) in their life with respect to health and fitness and consequently never really get their value for money. CF affiliates don't care they're a business.

Crossfit is great but not perfect. It provided me a consistent framework for improving my strength and conditioning or at least made me aware of the possibility for such things. At the end of the day though if your not willing to put in the work and lift heavy CF won't help.

EDIT: As for injuries, after doing it for over a year, I don't expect I would have avoided injuries in any intense exertion situations. Maybe the frequency is higher with Crossfit?

LuckyLloyd

It's not like people don't get injured playing football or rugby. If you're training hard five days a week while spending ~50 hours at a desk the reality is that injuries are a probability. Working on mobility / flexibility and being mindful of form should cut down the risk but it can't eliminate it entirely.

The issue with Crossfit is moving moderate weights with very bad or unsafe form while being pushed for intensity means that the nature of injuries that can be contracted are potentially more serious along with the heightened risk of getting injured in the first place. And there is a perception that most crossfit boxes / coaches value intensity and speed over form and safety.

Risk : Reward. Playing five a side three times a week carries with it a lower risk level but the potential rewards for your health, fitness and physique are lower too. Ditto using weight machines in a commercial gym, etc.

As always there should be a certain onus on the trainee to research their local crossfit affiliate before ponying up ~€150+ a month.

kevpants

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And there is a perception that most crossfit boxes / coaches value intensity and speed over form and safety.

That's because that's what's pushed by HQ. The point of Crossfit is that it's "brutal" and that no one understands what they do because no one else pushes this hard.

The respectable Crossfit gyms that don't do this are actually going against the gospel according to Glassman, that's why I have consistently criticized Crossfit, because it's madness. It's an inspirational 1980s action hero training montage turned into a sport.

When this is your cornerstone the physical amount of morons who are going to do stupid crap in your name will be immense. The offences against form and safety range from this



to pressed out snatches. Pressing out a Snatch was a MAJOR contributing factor to that Ogar guy never walking again. If he was in a competition where press-outs were verboten he would have bailed, instead he struggled under it because he's allowed to and now his life is in tatters.

That's no slight to the good people who are affiliated because, lets face it, it's the lowest risk route to take if you want to set up your own gym or training business.

I've tried to explain why the examples people give of good practice in Crossfit gyms are meaningless, it's because they're not Crossfitting the right way.

LuckyLloyd

kevpants wrote: »

That's no slight to the good people who are affiliated because, lets face it, it's the lowest risk route to take if you want to set up your own gym or training business.

I've tried to explain why the examples people give of good practice in Crossfit gyms are meaningless, it's because they're not Crossfitting the right way.

Seems to me that 'sane' crossfit is really just general S & C with all the retardation removed. And I agree with you as far as that goes as per my first post in this thread.

As for glassmann himself, a recent video on the main site had him give Dan Bailey a workout on the spot:

5 rounds of 20 Ring Dips and 15 heavy thrusters

Poor Bailey hammers away at it as best he can and is quickly reduced to singles on the ring dips. He diplomatically notes to the camera that the 'wod' had "more ring dips than he'd like". As he dies a death 'coach' is in the background smugly cheering him on. Awful stuff.

kevpants

Yep but without the brutality they have no product. I wouldn't have as big a problem with it if they didn't include snatches and cleans etc.

Someone made a point once that when you see pressed out snatches, pregnant women snatching, middle aged women doing fat bar continental cleans it demonstrates that the trainers have been completely desensitized to the dangers of these high risk movements. They see them alongside burpees and pushups as something you can just throw yourself into with terrible form, crippled with exhaustion.

dylbert

I still think snatches, cleans and brutality have their place, but only if the person has the correct technique and strength to perform the movements.
I'm so glad I'm a member of one of the good gyms you talk of, the ones that don't follow the Crossfit HQ template, I know my safety comes first before anything else. I was training over a year before I was allowed do kipping pull ups because I had to get strong enough at strict pull ups first.
I think how allot of gyms approach the daily WOD is wrong, every day is a test and totally random. The WOD's should be programmed over a month or two with an end goal like one of the named workouts, do Fran training for so many weeks then test Fran, there needs to be structure to the training.
I also think a good Crossfit gym should cater for different people with different goals, some people just want to get fit, lose a bit of weight others might want to compete, do olympic lifting, you cant give everybody the same program and daily WOD.

This is just my opinion based on where I train, the only knowledge I have of other gyms is what I've heard and if what I've heard is true then there's some not so great gyms out there.

dylbert

kevpants wrote: »

Pressing out a Snatch was a MAJOR contributing factor to that Ogar guy never walking again. If he was in a competition where press-outs were verboten he would have bailed, instead he struggled under it because he's allowed to and now his life is in tatters.

But he's a top athlete pushing himself to the limit, there's going to be risk at that level in any sport, look at Brandon Lilly's injury.

kevpants

dylbert wrote: »

But he's a top athlete pushing himself to the limit, there's going to be risk at that level in any sport, look at Brandon Lilly's injury.

I don't think the "injury's happen" argument holds water. That justifies just about anything. I don't think what he was doing is justifiable as a legitimate sport.

I don't know if you saw the video or if you want to, I don't blame you if you don't, but you may not have seen this version. I won't embed and you only have to see the first few seconds before the injury to see the guy next to Ogar fail to get the bar off the ground and fall on his ar5e. That's the type of fatigue these guys were being asked to lift a 3rm snatch, the most technically difficult way to lift the maximum weight to over your head. Ogar was clearly too tired to bail.

WARNING INJURY

dylbert

kevpants wrote: »

I don't think the "injury's happen" argument holds water. That justifies just about anything. I don't think what he was doing is justifiable as a legitimate sport.

I don't know if you saw the video or if you want to, I don't blame you if you don't, but you may not have seen this version. I won't embed and you only have to see the first few seconds before the injury to see the guy next to Ogar fail to get the bar off the ground and fall on his ar5e. That's the type of fatigue these guys were being asked to lift a 3rm snatch, the most technically difficult way to lift the maximum weight to over your head. Ogar was clearly too tired to bail.

WARNING INJURY

I didn't see that version, pretty horrific.

Theresalwaysone

That was honestly awful to see. I actually stopped myself from watching it a few times and then decided to man up. Wish I hadnt now.

papu

Awful to watch , the guy beside him also creases himself..

GymBible

When is the right time to transition between both

Alf Veedersane

GymBible wrote: »

When is the right time to transition between both

In what sense do you mean 'the right time'?

When would you be ready for it?

cob1

I would say right at the start, that's if you have a good level of strength and mobility, I don't think the typical 1 hour lesson structure of crossfit gyms gives you the necessary time to learn the Olympic lifts fully. some of the gyms offer once or twice Olympic lifting sessions or allow you train outside of the lessons, if the gym you're in doesn't you'll need to seek these out. for the prices most of the gyms charge it should be included.

GymBible

Where on here would I find a section on football and weightlifting...

Fantomas9mm

Seen that documentary " the fittest on earth" . Interesting viewing, it definitely seems to have its benefits but it does seem to attract a lot of ........well how should I put this ..... "dickheads".

Some of the atlethes featured in the doc were people you would just want to avoid in real life.

That said, I'd recommend checking it out and making your own mind up.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GkRYJp6vVJk

Assets Model

It depends on the trainer I think. I did it for a few years and it got me into exercising from zero so that was good but then i moved and joined a different crossfit gym which had dickish coaches and eventually i quit. I use what i learned at a normal gym now so it was worth it I reckon.

Assets Model

It depends on the trainer I think. I did it for a few years and it got me into exercising from zero so that was good but then i moved and joined a different crossfit gym which had dickish coaches and eventually i quit. I use what i learned at a normal gym now so it was worth it I reckon.

Bigwin60

Cross fit is the best

harperbd

Stillweak wrote: »

Its got some great points and some bad points.

Ignore the coach qualifications. Is hes good, hes good. If hes bad hes bad. Wheather it took him a day course or a 3 year degree course to get ''qualified'' is irrelivant.
The real education doesnt come in a class room or seminar.

The Good

- Its good fun
- gets you fitter and stronger
- the group mentality does make you work harder
- for average people they will do things they never thought they could do
- you will probably make some friends
- it will lead tou you eating better and drinking less

The Bad

- you will talk about crossfit non stop
- you might turn into a paleo geek
- you will probably feel you are a professional athlete. Youre not.
- there is so much cheating in every crossfit gym ( to get better score on white board )
- injuries are likely

The worst

- A lot of people who should be playing real sport are wasting their talent in crossfit and normal gyms

I agree with The Good above.

regards the bad.

- you will talk about crossfit nonstop: I'm sure everyone doing it talks about CF nonstop. I don't post it on my FB. Only when people ask how I lost so much weight and look much better do I say I've been doing CF.

- you might turn into a paleo geek: or might not. None of the people I know who do CF are paleo geeks. I love a bagel for breakfast and enjoy some pizza.

- you will probably feel you are a professional athlete. Youre not.: Fair point, 99.99% sure you're not a professional athlete. However, having spent so long feeling overweight and unable to move so well, it sure feels great to consider myself as even an entry level 'athlete'

- there is so much cheating in every crossfit gym: yeah there's some of that, but it doesn't make any difference to my health and I don't really care. It's simply amusing when you see someone cheating themselves.

- injuries are likely: I don't know if injuries are 'likely' and 'probable' but like playing any sport, injuries are possible. Lack of good health is 'likely' and probable' from not exercising.