Archbishop of Dublin: ‘Homophobia is an insult to God’

ewan whose army

Despite being an atheist I can say this is refreshing especially coming from an archbishop, seems Iona don't have many friends

The Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, says “homophobia is an insult to God” and that “God never created anybody that he doesn’t love.”
Referring to revelations made last week by Irish MP Jerry Buttimer, that he was beaten, spat at, mocked and harassed because of his sexuality, Dr Martin expressed concern saying: “Certainly the sort of actions that we heard of this week of people being spat at because they were gay or ridiculed … that is not a Christian attitude

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/02/11/archbishop-dublin-homophobia-insult-god/

Annasopra

Iona have lots of friends in the Church. Just not Archbishop Martin.

bodice ripper

I'd like to see them sue him.

hfallada

Archbishop Martin is not a typical Archbishop. He doesnt do or say what the church wants him to say or do, but does what he thinks is right. IMO he appears to be one of the few senior figures in the Catholic Church in Ireland, that talks about the child abuse scandals. He is one the few in the Catholic Church in Ireland, that seems to acknowledge there is a world outside of the church. He regularly talks about the social issues found in Dublin City

I find that the most senior and oldest member of the priesthood are the most critical of the catholic church. I have been in masses where the priest has argued that he believes divorce is acceptable in certain circumstances. Just because Rome is saying something is unacceptable, doesn't mean the Irish Catholic Church says its unacceptable. The Irish Catholic Church has values that are quite different to the values of the Italian Catholic Church eg Italians Catholics arent told Alcohol isnt acceptable like Irish Catholics are told.

ewan whose army

hfallada wrote: »

Archbishop Martin is not a typical Archbishop. He doesnt do or say what the church wants him to say or do, but does what he thinks is right. IMO he appears to be one of the few senior figures in the Catholic Church in Ireland, that talks about the child abuse scandals. He is one the few in the Catholic Church in Ireland, that seems to acknowledge there is a world outside of the church. He regularly talks about the social issues found in Dublin City

I find that the most senior and oldest member of the priesthood are the most critical of the catholic church. I have been in masses where the priest has argued that he believes divorce is acceptable in certain circumstances. Just because Rome is saying something is unacceptable, doesn't mean the Irish Catholic Church says its unacceptable. The Irish Catholic Church has values that are quite different to the values of the Italian Catholic Church eg Italians Catholics arent told Alcohol isnt acceptable like Irish Catholics are told.

True, I went to a Catholic faith school in England, and I came out to a teacher (priest) who tried to help me when I wound up one day bullied to tears. He surprised me and told me that the Vatican is full of hypocrisy on this stuff and that I should learn to accept it, then told me to go and speak to the school nurse about it (who put me in touch with the LGBTeen support group in my town) which is good. Personally I feel sorry for some of them, when people like Iona grab the headlines for being homophobic it ends up tainting the ones who may not share Iona's views on the matter.

crascred

The Archbishop is speaking sense. I agree with the post re older priests. Heard an old priest in his 70s on Marian on radio 1 almost two years ago. He was in a rural parish in Mao or Galway and was talking about how some of the nicest people he met in his years as a priest were gay couples. He saw no difference between them and anyone else. Now i know that we might say Gee Wizz but i thought it nice to hear. The likes of Tony Flannery, Brian Darcy and a few more are the same. Even where Im from, small parish in the wilds of the west, heard they were filling in some survey sent by the Pope and the priest, in his 60s, mentioned same sex marriage from the pulpit and said that it and the other issues really werent black and white.

Now i know a lot of lgbt people will say who the hell cares? Fair Point and we certainly owe them nothing. I'm maybe in a minority as a gay man and a catholic who practices. Guess i have what Dev might have called an external relationship with them.

Funny thing keeps coming into my mind from religion in national school. The story about Jesus and Zachessus the tax collector who was despised by the people in the village and spat at and spurned. From my memory of the story it was him JC went to eat with. If it did all happen and if he came back today is too far a stretch to think he''d go to the outsiders and the ill treated. I think he would and if he wanted a pint or maybe a cocktail it might be the scene he'd head to. He might have about the same time for some newspaper collumnists as he had for the pharisees. [excuse the spellings, aint a biblical scholar by any stretch of the imagination]

As for Iona............ well there's lots i could say but I'd hate to upset them and cant afford to either!!

hotmail.com

hfallada wrote: »

Archbishop Martin is not a typical Archbishop. He doesnt do or say what the church wants him to say or do, but does what he thinks is right. IMO he appears to be one of the few senior figures in the Catholic Church in Ireland, that talks about the child abuse scandals. He is one the few in the Catholic Church in Ireland, that seems to acknowledge there is a world outside of the church. He regularly talks about the social issues found in Dublin City

I find that the most senior and oldest member of the priesthood are the most critical of the catholic church. I have been in masses where the priest has argued that he believes divorce is acceptable in certain circumstances. Just because Rome is saying something is unacceptable, doesn't mean the Irish Catholic Church says its unacceptable. The Irish Catholic Church has values that are quite different to the values of the Italian Catholic Church eg Italians Catholics arent told Alcohol isnt acceptable like Irish Catholics are told.

Martin said gay marriage will take away the 'originality' of marriage. This is not progressive and his statements on child abuse doesn't deserve special mention. It should be a given.

Martin is also unwilling to disagree with the Church's teaching on homosexuality, that it is a sin.

So he is a homophobe. Let's not forget that.

J_E

hotmail.com wrote: »

Martin said gay marriage will take away the 'originality' of marriage. This is not progressive and his statements on child abuse doesn't deserve special mention. It should be a given.

Martin is also unwilling to disagree with the Church's teaching on homosexuality, that it is a sin.

So he is a homophobe. Let's not forget that.

I don't think you're giving him enough credit here.

hotmail.com

Cydoniac wrote: »

I don't think you're giving him enough credit here.

The continued teaching that homosexuality is a sin is the key thing here.

AerynSun

hotmail.com wrote: »

The continued teaching that homosexuality is a sin is the key thing here.

The trouble is, no matter what he may personally believe (and I don't claim to know what that is! I'm speaking hypothetically now!), the minute he says homosexuality is not a sin, then he will most definitely be sanctioned and silenced by the RCC and will most likely have to resign from his post as Archbishop.

Question is: is it be better for him to 'toe the party line' on calling it a sin, while he fights for a stop to the worst of the bullying, from a position of some influence within the Church? or is it better for him to 'speak the truth because it's the truth' and as a result lose his platform altogether?

Because there are some in the RCC who fall into the pure bigot camp, who think that gays are disordered and so it's okay to treat them like ****.

Then there are some in the RCC who fall into the somewhat bigoted camp, they think gays are disordered, but even so you don't be treating them badly on the strength of that because ALL people are sinners in need of the mercy of God, straight people no less than the gays.

And there are the tiny minority in the RCC who struggle in the invisible/derided camp, who think that LGBT people aren't disordered at all and don't in any way deserve the treatment they get from the Church. If they speak up, they get told "Go away, you're not real Catholics".

hotmail.com

AerynSun wrote: »

The trouble is, no matter what he may personally believe (and I don't claim to know what that is! I'm speaking hypothetically now!), the minute he says homosexuality is not a sin, then he will most definitely be sanctioned and silenced by the RCC and will most likely have to resign from his post as Archbishop.

Question is: is it be better for him to 'toe the party line' on calling it a sin, while he fights for a stop to the worst of the bullying, from a position of some influence within the Church? or is it better for him to 'speak the truth because it's the truth' and as a result lose his platform altogether?

Because there are some in the RCC who fall into the pure bigot camp, who think that gays are disordered and so it's okay to treat them like ****.

Then there are some in the RCC who fall into the somewhat bigoted camp, they think gays are disordered, but even so you don't be treating them badly on the strength of that because ALL people are sinners in need of the mercy of God, straight people no less than the gays.

And there are the tiny minority in the RCC who struggle in the invisible/derided camp, who think that LGBT people aren't disordered at all and don't in any way deserve the treatment they get from the Church. If they speak up, they get told "Go away, you're not real Catholics".

In relation to Martin, it is clear he believes in the Church's teaching - he said it himself. He opposes gay marriage.

So I don't believe he is just staying quiet to keep his position in his nice palace, he actually is a homophobic person.

He's just a good media performer, don't be fooled.

Ambersky

Im hopeful that some of the more recent softening of approach towards Gay people from the christian churches and RC in particular is part of an evolutionary process that will lead to an end to homophobia. Im just hopeful, not particularly expectant of that and I will take each new positive move as just that, something positive. I know there are other factors that may have lead to this softened approach, like the fall in numbers, their behaviour towards children and women leading to a lack of moral credibility etc, but thats ok by me too, I like it when people rethink things and I especially like it when people admit they were wrong.
For a very long time I thought it was a good thing that the RC church was alienating people and that every new conservative proclamation or teaching was making more and more people leave churches. I guess I'm a bit mellower now and I am a bit more in touch with the pain many people feel or have felt for whom church means something very important to them.
Im not looking to be welcomed by the RC church and I know very many LGBT people feel nothing but good about leaving all that behind but for those for whom it matters or who want church in their lives and who are also LGBT I support them in that diversity. Church going LGBT people are part of our community too and I hope it gets easier for them.

AerynSun

hotmail.com wrote: »

In relation to Martin, it is clear he believes in the Church's teaching - he said it himself. He opposes gay marriage.

He may have said it, but there could be myriad of reasons for him doing so.

I know myself, when I was aware of my profile as a 'religious person' (when I was still one!), there were things I said because I knew that so say anything else would bring a torrent of disapproval and judgment down on me, and scupper any hope I had of being able to effect change from within.

I have no idea what's in your man's head or heart. I only hope he finds a way to encourage some of the RCC followers to be a little more compassionate than they have been to date.