BTWEA?

HairMare

Hi has anyone experienced in applying for btwea? Im hitting a brick wall with same, just wondering if anyone has had success or failure in applying for same. Thanks

Peterdalkey

Have you tried the door instead? I gave you advice on here on this very topic recently, it appears it did not suit you, so please see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88808007

HairMare

Peterdalkey wrote: »

Have you tried the door instead? I gave you advice on here on this very topic recently, it appears it did not suit you, so please see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88808007

Hi peterdalkey
I have tried many doors, even the magic green one from Bosco, not that your advice didn't suit/wasn't helpful just not right for my particular situation. I don't give in easily, if at all. I have had 3 meetings with fas/intreo " job facilitator" and still none the wiser, I must wait for them to come back to me currently. Im looking for feedback from those who have applied recently as in reasons for not being successful vice/versa. If I liked waiting for someone else to make my big decisions I wouldn't be going out my own but I am currently stuck waiting for lady in fas office to say ye/ne. I am aware that I can appeal their decision to employment support in leitrim but wondering what they can back with really in tge meantime - forewarned is fore armed afterall

Buttercake

HairMare wrote: »

Hi peterdalkey
I have tried many doors, even the magic green one from Bosco, not that your advice didn't suit/wasn't helpful just not right for my particular situation. I don't give in easily, if at all. I have had 3 meetings with fas/intreo " job facilitator" and still none the wiser, I must wait for them to come back to me currently. Im looking for feedback from those who have applied recently as in reasons for not being successful vice/versa. If I liked waiting for someone else to make my big decisions I wouldn't be going out my own but I am currently stuck waiting for lady in fas office to say ye/ne. I am aware that I can appeal their decision to employment support in leitrim but wondering what they can back with really in tge meantime - forewarned is fore armed afterall

What did you tell them your line of business will be?

Peterdalkey

HairMare wrote: »

Hi peterdalkey
I have tried many doors, even the magic green one from Bosco, not that your advice didn't suit/wasn't helpful just not right for my particular situation. I don't give in easily, if at all. I have had 3 meetings with fas/intreo " job facilitator" and still none the wiser, I must wait for them to come back to me currently. Im looking for feedback from those who have applied recently as in reasons for not being successful vice/versa. If I liked waiting for someone else to make my big decisions I wouldn't be going out my own but I am currently stuck waiting for lady in fas office to say ye/ne. I am aware that I can appeal their decision to employment support in leitrim but wondering what they can back with really in tge meantime - forewarned is fore armed afterall

Like Groucho Marks's principles, if you don't like these one's, I have others. Unlike jobseeker benefits, entry to these schemes is not an entitlement, the decision-making process is arbitrary and to gain entry you have to sell yourself and your idea. You have to be able to show that you have both the skills and whatever resources are needed to give the new enterprise a reasonable chance of succeeding/surviving.
If you have no cash, no experience of running a shop and your sole learning has been helping someone else set one up (completely different to actually running one), your chances a slim indeed.
The people I helped were quite different, one had a goodly redundancy settlement to fund the business and the other was a service business that was largely made up of their own labour. In each case we did a proper business plan that was ready to roll, one even included some night courses to add computer skills. It was al;so clear to the SW Enterprise Officer that they each had the advice resources of an experienced business person to guide them.

From your other posts you are looking to go into a business that requires 30-50K in capital but have no money/funding in place. Your query about credit history also raised alarm bells.
A positive gung-ho attitude will not magic up the basic resources required to allow you to proceed, unless you set it to work in raising the money and get it!

I was not, and am not now, trying to bust your chops, rather I am trying to give you a reality check as I sense you seem to portray a tone of entitlement.

HairMare

HI peter,
I don't have a sense of entitlement, but I am shorter on funds than id like to be hence applying for btwea in first place. I have worked extensively in retail up to management level, I have worked in sales and cold calling, more importantly I have worked in a pro-active sales environment. I have sold Christmas trees in January, u name it I've done it. My issue with syob course is timing and that next course wudnt be fin until end of march, I am however completing an on line one whether intreo are satisfied by that or not I don't know. You do not always 30 - 50k, but you will always need a survival instinct! I know I can run a business and make it successful.

HairMare

Buttercake wrote: »

What did you tell them your line of business will be?

Hi buttercake, it will be ladies shoes, clothes, bags and accessories, cheap and cheerful - low cost hi margins. Provincal town but adding website/on line sales also. Definitely an opening for same in location

HairMare

As expected have been turned down for same, anyone experience on appealing fas decision? Thanks in advance

pedroeibar1

Peterdalkey wrote: »

From your other posts you are looking to go into a business that requires 30-50K in capital but have no money/funding in place. Your query about credit history also raised alarm bells.
A positive gung-ho attitude will not magic up the basic resources required to allow you to proceed, unless you set it to work in raising the money and get it!

I was not, and am not now, trying to bust your chops, rather I am trying to give you a reality check as I sense you seem to portray a tone of entitlement.

Hairmare, I think that is a fair comment on the posts to date and agree with it. Nobody deserves to get that amount of cash from the State when they have no track record, not much capital of their own and do not meet the general acceptance criteria. Also, it is in one of the two highest fail rate businesses around. I'm sure the Leitrim Lovelies need accessories, but it hadly is the County with the highest employment, housing success and population growth. FWIW

HairMare

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Hairmare, I think that is a fair comment on the posts to date and agree with it. Nobody deserves to get that amount of cash from the State when they have no track record, not much capital of their own and do not meet the general acceptance criteria. Also, it is in one of the two highest fail rate businesses around. I'm sure the Leitrim Lovelies need accessories, but it hadly is the County with the highest employment,p housing success and population growth. FWIW

Im not based in leitrim firstly, 2ndly like a lot of people following almost 6 yrs recession im not in a perfect place financially. I want to start a business which Will provide myself and others with employment. I was hoping for advice from people who had gone through process. If you want to criticise me for trying fair enough, but btwea is intended for business start ups and I think we're all entitled to learn as we go within reason. Also I am aiming at the end of the market that has 20/30 euro to spare unlike all the shops in my area which are more 80/90 plus for the same product type/quality. By the way I also meet the criteria as set out by dept. I understand people's apprehension about first timers and business but thats what the scheme is intended for in the first place.

Peterdalkey

You have a lot to learn, i am afraid, you are angry and do not listen/read andf really only want to hear what youn want to hear. For my money, you were turned down bcause you simply do not have a sustainable business case, get over it ! If you are serious, you should ask for a detailed response as to why you were refused and then work on fixing what they think is wrong, your opinions are of no consequence. If it were me and based on your posts on here, I would have kicked you and your project into touch too.
Your approach is not working, so fix it or forget it. This is the real wold of business, nobody cares about your hair!!

HairMare

Hi all, I have requested a detailed response and what I was told was that on fas's consultation with local shops it was felt the town had enough shops!

Peterdalkey

So get off your butt and prove them wrong with a market stall/popup shop/door-to-door sales whatever. Direct your energy away from just bitching on here!

HairMare

Hi peterdalkey,
I have tried and succeeded at two of the above, have even considered hawking(door to door) as it would be described down here. Market trading gave me a wealth of experience from trade space negotiations to a world of other things. I am not the pampered spoilt princess that I think you perceive me to be. My login name like my first posts are 6 yrs old now, and boy has the world changed in that time. I am much more grounded and realistic person than my posts perhaps show. I think the fas system flawed in that civil servants with no business experience get to make dragons den type decisions, thats my opinion based on my experience. I know a market trader who swears by the following, if what you have ain't selling you need to look at what your selling. So maybe a change of tack is indeed needed !

sawdoubters

http://selfemployedsupports.ie/back_to_work_enterprise_allowance.en.html

HairMare

sawdoubters wrote: »

http://selfemployedsupports.ie/back_to_work_enterprise_allowance.en.html

Thanks for that sawdoubters, I think they also added in last budget that you are fully tax free for first two years. Appealing decision to s/w. Will see how it goes...

Peterdalkey

HairMare wrote: »

Hi peterdalkey,
I have tried and succeeded at two of the above, have even considered hawking(door to door) as it would be described down here. Market trading gave me a wealth of experience from trade space negotiations to a world of other things. I am not the pampered spoilt princess that I think you perceive me to be. My login name like my first posts are 6 yrs old now, and boy has the world changed in that time. I am much more grounded and realistic person than my posts perhaps show. I think the fas system flawed in that civil servants with no business experience get to make dragons den type decisions, thats my opinion based on my experience. I know a market trader who swears by the following, if what you have ain't selling you need to look at what your selling. So maybe a change of tack is indeed needed !

Aaahhh ! a light comes on at last!!

EIREHotspur

So a few posters here would say to a lot of people that they should not have a go in Business because they are taking off the state.

With BTWE:
The state would pay them 188 x 52 + 141 x 52 = €17,108

With them staying on Social Welfare:
The state would pay them 188 x 104 = €19,552

Paying people more money to sit at home and not even try to succeed??

Hands up again those people who thinks this makes sense in this day and age??

makeandcreate

EIREHotspur wrote: »

So a few posters here would say to a lot of people that they should not have a go in Business because they are taking off the state.

With BTWE:
The state would pay them 188 x 52 + 141 x 52 = €17,108

With them staying on Social Welfare:
The state would pay them 188 x 104 = €19,552

Paying people more money to sit at home and not even try to succeed??

Hands up again those people who thinks this makes sense in this day and age??

I don't think that's the point that people are trying to make at all.

BTWEA is to facilitate people to open a new business that is sustainable, hopefully has potential for expansion and is economically viable.
Not to let people chase dreams for a while until it all crashes down around their ears and they end up back on the dole.

(I'm currently working towards applying for BTWEA but I know I need to work on it a bit longer :rolleyes:)

Graham

EIREHotspur wrote: »

So a few posters here would say to a lot of people that they should not have a go in Business because they are taking off the state.

With BTWE:
The state would pay them 188 x 52 + 141 x 52 = €17,108

With them staying on Social Welfare:
The state would pay them 188 x 104 = €19,552

Paying people more money to sit at home and not even try to succeed??

Hands up again those people who thinks this makes sense in this day and age??

You're assuming that people who are declined BTWEA remain unemployed for 2 years after the decision.

HairMare

In the current climate it is a very fair assumption that someone who is long term unemployed at present will possibly remain so without any alternatives yes. In one way or another ce schemes, job bridge etc they are all equivalent to jobseekers, you are just on a different list.

EIREHotspur

makeandcreate wrote: »

I don't think that's the point that people are trying to make at all.

BTWEA is to facilitate people to open a new business that is sustainable, hopefully has potential for expansion and is economically viable.
Not to let people chase dreams for a while until it all crashes down around their ears and they end up back on the dole.

(I'm currently working towards applying for BTWEA but I know I need to work on it a bit longer :rolleyes:)

A Business (pays electricity bills etc) =
I doubt it very much that anyone visits FAS, their local Enterprise Board, Bank and BTWE Facilitator to go through the whole process intends it to be a failure. They could do the staying at home for more money option.

Chasing a Dream =
Swimming with Dolphins, Playing at White Hart Lane etc

And I am not assuming...I am giving figures that are factual and based on the reality of the current Jobs situation.

Your right too Hairmare about ce schemes & job bridge.
Note too that all of the people you talk to with try and put you on "Business Courses".
These are usually 3 day powerpoint presentations and will never specifically deal with your chosen field.

I swear to God.....in some ways Ireland will never leave 80s thinking behind.

Graham

HairMare wrote: »

In one way or another ce schemes, job bridge etc they are all equivalent to jobseekers, you are just on a different list.

Not entirely, BTWEA could act as a disincentive for someone who would otherwise be looking for a job.

HairMare

If there were jobs out there people wouldn't be signing on. I think people who look for btwea are not the kind that would happily sit in for the day watching Jeremy Kyle, they are people looking to improve their circumstances and have a small amount of pride/self worth left. Who's to say when there business is profitable/sustainable they don't come off btwea.

HairMare

EIREHotspur wrote: »

A Business (pays electricity bills etc) =
I doubt it very much that anyone visits FAS, their local Enterprise Board, Bank and BTWE Facilitator to go through the whole process intends it to be a failure. They could do the staying at home for more money option.

Chasing a Dream =
Swimming with Dolphins, Playing at White Hart Lane etc

And I am not assuming...I am giving figures that are factual and based on the reality of the current Jobs situation.

Your right too Hairmare about ce schemes & job bridge.
Note too that all of the people you talk to with try and put you on "Business Courses".
These are usually 3 day powerpoint presentations and will never specifically deal with your chosen field.

I swear to God.....in some ways Ireland will never leave 80s thinking behind.

Hi eirehotspur thanks for the imput, thats exactly what ive been told these courses are & again not delivered by business people but by trainers. Not slagging off trainers as Ive been one. But it's a ridiculous system in fairness.

EIREHotspur

Graham wrote: »

Not entirely, BTWEA could act as a disincentive for someone who would otherwise be looking for a job.

Applying for a job and going for an interview

v

Figuring out ideas for a Business, listening to people tell you how mad you are to think of going into Business, Do Market Surveys, Applying for BTWEA and meeting disinterested Civil Servants who pick apart your ideas, Apply for Business names, Meet accountants and seek tax advice, Set up Business Bank Account, Take out loans to start up, Seek Clients, etc etc

Yeah... I can see where the Back To Work Scheme is a disincentive to people seeking a job alright...:-|

Graham

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Applying for a job and going for an interview

v

Figuring out ideas for a Business, listening to people tell you how mad you are to think of going into Business, Do Market Surveys, Applying for BTWEA and meeting disinterested Civil Servants who pick apart your ideas, Apply for Business names, Meet accountants and seek tax advice, Set up Business Bank Account, Take out loans to start up, Seek Clients, etc etc

Yeah... I can see where the Back To Work Scheme is a disincentive to people seeking a job alright...:-|

Are you suggesting that it's not possible for someone to delude themselves into thinking they have the chops for running their own business while it's effectively being subsidised?

EIREHotspur

HairMare wrote: »

Hi eirehotspur thanks for the imput, thats exactly what ive been told these courses are & again not delivered by business people but by trainers. Not slagging off trainers as Ive been one. But it's a ridiculous system in fairness.

I would say to you though to do them anyway as meeting people starting off is always good...and you never know if advice they have may be valuable and vice versa.

HairMare

EIREHotspur wrote: »

I would say to you though to do them anyway as meeting people starting off is always good...and you never know if advice they have may be valuable and vice versa.

Hi eirehotspur I will definitely do one as you can always learn something or don't know who you'd meet. doing an on line currently for box ticking purposes. Next ceb course doesn't start for while down here unfortunately:-(

HairMare

Graham wrote: »

Are you suggesting that it's not possible for someone to delude themselves into thinking they have the chops for running their own business while it's effectively being subsidised?

Anyone can delude themselves into anything, but trying in life is far better for everyone concerned. The subsidising you speak isn't huge, but is a lifeline for those without backers. Risk is involved in all business and you have to take a chance now and again on order to better your circumstances

EIREHotspur

HairMare wrote: »

Anyone can delude themselves into anything, but trying in life is far better for everyone concerned. The subsidising you speak isn't huge, but is a lifeline for those without backers. Risk is involved in all business and you have to take a chance now and again on order to better your circumstances

EXACTLY.....I think Bill Cullen talks a lot of guff but I do agree with the fundementals of what he says....."Have A GO".

I would admire a person who has something in their head to do and who has a go than a person who works a job they hate and who go through the motions in life and delude themselves that they are actually happy.

Finding out if you have the chops to run a Business is a damn sight better than sitting on your Chops.

Graham

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Finding out if you have the chops to run a Business is a damn sight better than sitting on your Chops.

Absolutely.

Just keep in mind if you're looking for finance to find out, there will probably be conditions attached, minimum standards of preparedness to prove etc etc. That applies equally to all types of finance; loans, investors, BTWEA.

HairMare

You've got to speculate to accumulate, I think part of the point here is that it would be better practise for sw/fas/intreo to adopt a similar attitude rather than stagnating things with sometimes unwarranted beauracy and form filling. I think the figures Eirehotspur provided showed this would make since, most people will do everything they can not to sign back on.

EIREHotspur

"You have to speculate to accumulate"...one of my favourite sayings.

I will tell you this....I am done dealing with suits and civil servants across a desk whom you may as well be explaining stuff to in Japanese for all the interest they show.

Graham wrote: »

Absolutely.

Just keep in mind if you're looking for finance to find out, there will probably be conditions attached, minimum standards of preparedness to prove etc etc. That applies equally to all types of finance; loans, investors, BTWEA.

That is true for the suits in Banks, BTWEA Facilitators, Investors etc but I won't be dealing with them....if I wanted to jump through all those hoops for someone I would have been a Dog at Crufts.

In about two months time...I am going to lay my hands on the finances to find out....the only condition and minimum standard they have is you pay back what you state you will pay back each week.

It's called...a Credit Union.

EIREHotspur

HairMare wrote: »

You've got to speculate to accumulate, I think part of the point here is that it would be better practise for sw/fas/intreo to adopt a similar attitude rather than stagnating things with sometimes unwarranted beauracy and form filling. I think the figures Eirehotspur provided showed this would make since, most people will do everything they can not to sign back on.

I agree 100% with what you say...you have come to the conclusions I have.

Luckily I am not in my 20s or would have been put off by the endless beauracy and negativity of dealing with these people.
Let me guess...when you went to meet the first person, they suggested "great Business course"...they sent you along the chain to another person who "didn't deal with that" but recommended "a great Business course coming up" that just so happened to be done by their company and so on and so forth.

Ireland is the land of Corporate Tax Rates....it certainly isn't the land of Opportunity because the Bureaucrats running these departments are institutionalized and are just punching in a time.

Graham

EIREHotspur wrote: »

It's called...a Credit Union.

Tell them you're building an extension and I've no doubt you'll walk away with a cheque. Tell them you're starting a business and see how you get on.

EIREHotspur

Graham wrote: »

Tell them you're building an extension and I've no doubt you'll walk away with a cheque. Tell them you're starting a business and see how you get on.

Have a look at your Credit Union's Yearly report and see what % is "House Renovations".

You miss the point Graham...The point is a Business does not have to deal with Banks etc

Go to a credit union....build up shares...borrow double...pay it back....build up shares....borrow double...pay that back....and so on and so forth.

I have been with this Credit Union for 20+ years...and have borrowed over 70k...I have a fantastic Credit Rating with them and have paid back loans sometimes in half the time agreed....if they won't give me double my Shares in a loan for whatever reason at this time...I would not be with them.

pedroeibar1

EIREHotspur wrote: »

I agree 100% with what you say...you have come to the conclusions I have.
Luckily I am not in my 20s or would have been put off by the endless beauracy and negativity of dealing with these people.
Let me guess...when you went to meet the first person, they suggested "great Business course"...they sent you along the chain to another person who "didn't deal with that" but recommended "a great Business course coming up" that just so happened to be done by their company and so on and so forth.

Ireland is the land of Corporate Tax Rates....it certainly isn't the land of Opportunity because the Bureaucrats running these departments are institutionalized and are just punching in a time.

If you are such an expert and fan of HairMare’s business project why not put your money where your mouth is and back her yourself?

Graham

EIREHotspur wrote: »

I have been with this Credit Union for 20+ years...and have borrowed over 70k...I have a fantastic Credit Rating with them and have paid back loans sometimes in half the time agreed....if they won't give me double my Shares in a loan for whatever reason at this time...I would not be with them.

Congratulations, but probably not helpful to the OP.

HairMare

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

If you are such an expert and fan of HairMare’s business project why not put your money where your mouth is and back her yourself?

I think it's the basic common sense that eirehotspur likes.

HairMare

Graham wrote: »

Congratulations, but probably not helpful to the OP.

Hi Graham in essence it is but can only free up a token amount in the short term. But it's a better than a kick from a horse!

HairMare

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Have a look at your Credit Union's Yearly report and see what % is "House Renovations".

You miss the point Graham...The point is a Business does not have to deal with Banks etc

Go to a credit union....build up shares...borrow double...pay it back....build up shares....borrow double...pay that back....and so on and so forth.

I have been with this Credit Union for 20+ years...and have borrowed over 70k...I have a fantastic Credit Rating with them and have paid back loans sometimes in half the time agreed....if they won't give me double my Shares in a loan for whatever reason at this time...I would not be with them.

Best of luck with cu, at least with them in general they are rational minded and will work with you as best they can. Mine was willing to free up small amount for start up so it can be done. But the best thing is I can come back to them six months and see what can be done.

EIREHotspur

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

If you are such an expert and fan of HairMare’s business project why not put your money where your mouth is and back her yourself?

Ehhhhhhh........Because I am going into Business myself....if you read a few posts up??????????

EIREHotspur

HairMare wrote: »

I think it's the basic common sense that eirehotspur likes.

Absolutely right!!!

You seem to have more than your fair share of common sense.

HairMare

Thanks, thinking of bottling and selling:-) it, seems to be gap in market.