Liberty Insurance refusing to issue copy of no claims bonus

Dannyboy83

Since Liberty jacked up their prices again, I've chosen no to renew with them at the end of current policy and am going with Axa.
Service was fine, I'm just sick of paddy tax.

Unfortunately, I stupidly shredded the renewal documents for Liberty, including my certificate of no claims bonus.

Axa require a copy of my no claims bonus by the 1st of March or my policy is cancelled..
Liberty are refusing to issue a copy of my no claims until my current policy expires on the 1st of March.


Is this legal?
Any suggestions as to how I can proceed?

Supergurrier

No claims bonus cert is sent out with renewal price you get in the post just before the policy expires

djimi

NCB is based on a full year. If they issued it now it would be 11 months short.

Why did you take out a policy with Axa before the Liberty policy expired? Doesnt make a whole lot of sense.

Dannyboy83

Policy Number GEI/QMP/xxxxxxxxx

Dear Mr X

Thank you for your email dated 6th February 2014.

Your statement of No Claims Bonus was posted within the renewal notice pack, if you have lost this then you may request another copy of your No Claims Bonus Discount on or after the renewal date.

If there are any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards
Edel x
Administration Department
Private Lines
Liberty Insurance

Phone: 1890 89 1890 ROI
0845 351 1889 NI
0044 28 6634 7512 INT



From: x [mailto:x]
Sent: 06 February 2014 17:48
To: Liberty Customer Services
Subject: GEI/QMP/xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam,

My policy number is GEI/QMP/xxxxxxx

I require original proof of no claims bonus

Please send to my address as listed on my policy

Thank you
Regards
X
085-xxxxxxx
For Irish business, Liberty Insurance Limited is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

For UK business, Liberty Insurance Limited is authorised by the Central Bank of Ireland and subject to limited regulation by the Financial Conduct Authority. Details about the extent of our regulation by the Financial Conduct Authority are available from us on request. Quinn Direct is a trading name of Liberty Insurance Limited in Great Britain.

Liberty Insurance Limited is registered in Ireland, registration number 494729 and is a private company limited by shares. Its head office is at Dublin Road, Cavan, Co. Cavan, Ireland. UK Branch: 3 Lawnakilla Way, Carran Business Park, Enniskillen BT74 4RZ. UK est. number BR015542.

This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.

The contents should not be copied nor disclosed to any other person. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of Liberty Insurance Limited unless otherwise specifically stated. As internet communications are not secure, Liberty Insurance Limited is not responsible for the contents of this message nor responsible for any change made to this message after it was sent by the original sender. Although virus scanning is used on all inbound and outbound e-mail, we advise you to carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. We cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of any software viruses.

X x
11:33 (8 hours ago)

to Liberty
Dear Edel,

I have already cancelled my insurance policy with Liberty, due to the price increases, and it will expire on the 1st of March 2013.
All documents related to renewal were unfortunately shredded.

I request another copy of my No Claims Bonus Discount to provide for my new insurer

Please forward to my address:
X
X
X
Cork City


Thank you
Regards
X


From: Liberty Customer Services [mailto:customer.services@libertyinsurance.ie]
Sent: 10 February 2014 08:22
To: x
Subject: GEI/QMP/xxxxxxx


Liberty Customer Services
18:05 (1 hour ago)

to General, me
Dear Mr X

Thank you for your email dated 10th February 2014.

I would like to confirm that unfortunately another copy of the No Claims Discount can only be issued once the policy has lapsed on the 01/03/2014, at that point if you would like to contact us again we would be happy to request one to be issued.



If there are any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards
Joanne X

Administration Department
Private Lines
Liberty Insurance

Phone: 1890 89 1890 ROI
0845 351 1889 NI
0044 28 6634 7512 INT

Dannyboy83

djimi wrote: »

NCB is based on a full year. If they issued it now it would be 11 months short.

Why did you take out a policy with Axa before the Liberty policy expired? Doesnt make a whole lot of sense.

But they already issued one with my renewal documents (which I shredded idiotically)

My policy with Liberty expires on the 1st of March.
My new policy with Axa begins on the 1st of March.

....

is this unusual?

I think you've misunderstood me - this is the 12th month of my final policy with Liberty.

nikpmup

Supergurrier wrote: »

No claims bonus cert is sent out with renewal price you get in the post just before the policy expires

The OP shredded it.

I don't know the answer to your query, but you're not alone in being at the receiving end of shoddy service from Liberty. My car was stolen, then recovered by the guards 2 weeks ago. It's still in the Garda lock-up, and the claims assessor I'm dealing with is worse than useless. Doesn't return my calls, and as far as I can see, doesn't seem to care if I ever get the car back. Tearing my hair out at this stage.

djimi

Have you actually cancelled the Liberty policy, or is it still active until 1st March? You cant hold two policies on the same car.

If the Liberty policy is still active then the Axa one does not kick in until 1st March. Before that you do not pay anything to Axa and do not have to sign and send them anything.

Dannyboy83

djimi wrote: »

Have you actually cancelled the Liberty policy, or is it still active until 1st March? You cant hold two policies on the same car.

If the Liberty policy is still active then the Axa one does not kick in until 1st March. Before that you do not pay anything to Axa and do not have to sign and send them anything.

This is getting confusing...

I'm choosing not to renew with Liberty, policy expires 1st of March.
I have a policy ready to go from the 1st of March with Axa.
There are No concurrent policies... just ending one and starting another. Normal state of affairs.

You have to pay a deposit to Axa (paid).
They require my copy of no claims bonus by the 1st of March

djimi

It would be quite unusual to pay a deposit that far in advance of the policy commencing. Quotes are usually good for 30 days; there is no need to have paid that deposit so early.

Best thing to do is get on the phone to Axa and explain the situation. Normally they require those documents within x number of days of the policy commencing. Im sure they can come to some arrangement. Worst case scenario just cancel the arrangement with Axa and then take it out again closer to the time of your current policy expiring.

oldyouth

Do you not accept any part in your difficulty, having shredded the document you require, which they sent you in good time?

Having said that, they should just issue a duplicate

Kristopherus

nikpmup wrote: »

The OP shredded it.

I don't know the answer to your query, but you're not alone in being at the receiving end of shoddy service from Liberty. My car was stolen, then recovered by the guards 2 weeks ago. It's still in the Garda lock-up, and the claims assessor I'm dealing with is worse than useless. Doesn't return my calls, and as far as I can see, doesn't seem to care if I ever get the car back. Tearing my hair out at this stage.

Off Topic. It may very well be an independent assessor that Liberty are using, as a lot of insurance use indos. Ring Liberty Claims and give them 24 hrs to get their assessor on site.

TheBody

Ask one of the mods to move this thread to the talk to Liberty Insurance forum. Maybe some of the reps there can help.

Dannyboy83

oldyouth wrote: »

Do you not accept any part in your difficulty, having shredded the document you require, which they sent you in good time?

Did I not accept that Twice already?

Where I wrote stupidly, then in the next post where I wrote idiotically?

Dannyboy83

TheBody wrote: »

Ask one of the mods to move this thread to the talk to Liberty Insurance forum. Maybe some of the reps there can help.

Didn't even realise they had a forum! Thank you, I appreciate that.


@Mod, could you please move this thread to the Liberty Insurance forum?
Thank you

oldyouth

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Did I not accept that Twice already?

Where I wrote stupidly, then in the next post where I wrote idiotically?

Right then, approach it from a different angle. AXA have given you until 1st March to get your NCB in, which is probably a set amount of days from the day you arranged the policy. Explain that your inception date is only the 1st March and ask for an extension to get your documents in

Dannyboy83

It seems the Financial Ombudsman deals with insurance.

I think I will have to enquire...

Arthur Beesley

The use of the term cancelled in the letter is confusing...

Dannyboy83

Financial Services Ombudsman's Bureau
Line 1:
3rd Floor
Line 2:
Lincoln House
Line 3:
Lincoln Place
County:
Dublin 2
Country:
IRELAND
Tel:
(01) 662 0899
Locall:
1890 882 090
Fax:
(01) 662 0890
Homepage:
http://www.financialombudsman.ie/
Email:
enquiries@financialombudsman.ie

TheBody

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Didn't even realise they had a forum! Thank you, I appreciate that.


@Mod, could you please move this thread to the Liberty Insurance forum?
Thank you

No problem. Maybe send them a PM in case they don't read your post.

Dannyboy83

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

The use of the term cancelled in the letter is confusing...

Yes, you're right. I meant cancelled as in 'will not renew'.
Sorry.

On the bright side here, I had a house insurance policy ready to go with Liberty - that's cancelled now - I suppose this is a valuable lesson...I'll pay extra not to use them after this.

Pappacharlie

Ok here is my situation. I am changing my car and I am taking delivery on Wednesday. As it so happens all the insurance policies in the house(two cars + house) expire end of October, so I decided I would change insurance companies and take out a new policy on the new car to ease the financial pressure in October. I was with Axa through AIB. I cancelled my existing policy today and returned the policy documentation and asked AIB Insurance to issue proof of no claims bonus. Does anyone see a problem with this? I'm nervous having read this thread!!!

Gumbo

Most places charge for a duplicate NCB.

Dannyboy83

kceire wrote: »

Most places charge for a duplicate NCB.

I'd be happy to pay it for a duplicate - that seems reasonable.
But they're plainly refusing to issue a duplicate - that seems very unreasonable. Shysters.

pheelay

I'd be surprised if Axa didn't want an NCB document dated closer to, or on the date your policy with Liberty expires. I took a policy out with them in december in one of their branches. They issued me a temporary certificate for 1 month, while waiting for the NCB proof to arrive from my previous insurer.

Have you tried talking to Axa to see if they will wait until beginning of March for the NCB document?

biko

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

@Mod, could you please move this thread to the Liberty Insurance forum?
Thank you

There is a lot of posts that doesn't really pertain to that forum.
Just start a fresh thread there.

Dannyboy83

pheelay wrote: »

Have you tried talking to Axa to see if they will wait until beginning of March for the NCB document?

I'm going to contact them to explain the situation tomorrow.

I've done a bit of digging and it seems that Liberty have a reputation for these kind of unscrupulous tactics, this doesn't appear to be an isolated case, so hopefully Axa will understand.

Apparently Liberty 'take their time' with issuing new NCBs. http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057085811

Stroke My Trout

From experience of similar, Id ring AXA and ask for an extension. Its never been a problem for me with them before, they give an extra 14 days, and might save futile ringing around

Stroke My Trout

and threatening the ombudsman before entering a complaints procedure with a company generally is a bit pointless and wont endear you to the person on the end of the phone that may be able to help:)

Dannyboy83

Stroke My Trout wrote: »

and threatening the ombudsman before entering a complaints procedure with a company generally is a bit pointless and wont endear you to the person on the end of the phone that may be able to help:)

There was no fear of them co-operating anyway, threat or no threat.

Unfortunately, the Ombudsman only deals with Limited Companies with turnovers of less than €3 million.

I've mailed them to ask for an explanation as to why they cannot send it. I'll post the reply if I get one.

djimi

Pappacharlie wrote: »

Ok here is my situation. I am changing my car and I am taking delivery on Wednesday. As it so happens all the insurance policies in the house(two cars + house) expire end of October, so I decided I would change insurance companies and take out a new policy on the new car to ease the financial pressure in October. I was with Axa through AIB. I cancelled my existing policy today and returned the policy documentation and asked AIB Insurance to issue proof of no claims bonus. Does anyone see a problem with this? I'm nervous having read this thread!!!

No problem really. You obviously wont get a NCB for this year (it will be backdated to October) and you probably wont get a full refund for the amount fo time remaining (its usually done as a percentage of 10 months I think), but other than that there is no issue.

brightspark

Might be a bit sneaky, and not sure you would end up with a certificate but you could try using the data protection act to get them to send you a complete list of information they have, which would naturally include your no claims information.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/personal-bank-account-files-going-back-years-can-be-seen-for-635-29493588.html

Liam McPoyle

@dannyboy. Insurance companies generally give 10 working days from policy inception for new customers to get the paper work in and tbh, most insurers will allow extra as they are well aware how hard it can be to get dupe docs.

Ring Axa today and explain the situation, I'd be massively surprised if they have any objection.

Worse case scenario you still have a couple of weeks til your policy expires so in the unlikely event Axa have an issue, just get onto a brokers and let them do the leg work for you.

MugMugs

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

So they send you your NCB cert, you destroy it and demand a duplicate which they say they'll be happy to provide on or after the renewal date and you throw the toys out of the pram with this thread?

There's a potential fraud risk in issuing a duplicate NCB cert.

You've got ten days after inception to give AXA your cert.

Kill the drama dude and ask them again on the day your policy lapses.

Dannyboy83

MugMugs wrote: »

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

So they send you your NCB cert, you destroy it and demand a duplicate which they say they'll be happy to provide on or after the renewal date and you throw the toys out of the pram with this thread?

There's a potential fraud risk in issuing a duplicate NCB cert.

You've got ten days after inception to give AXA your cert.

Kill the drama dude and ask them again on the day your policy lapses.

Sorry 'dude', it's a duplicate of a cert which they already printed.

There is a fraud risk with the original cert also - perhaps it should be hand delivered?

Do you have anything potentially useful to contribute or you just going to be the keyboard warrrior?

MugMugs

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Sorry 'dude', it's a duplicate of a cert which they already printed.

There is a fraud risk with the original cert also - perhaps it should be hand delivered?

Do you have anything potentially useful to contribute or you just going to be the keyboard warrrior?

The risk only becomes a risk when the dupe is issued.

Perhaps you should complain to the Ombudsman. (you're wrong about not being permitted to by the way)

Let us know how that goes for you

Dannyboy83

MugMugs wrote: »

The risk only becomes a risk when the dupe is issued.

Perhaps you should complain to the Ombudsman. (you're wrong about not being permitted to by the way)

Let us know how that goes for you

I'm guessing you work for Liberty then - that would explain the 'tone' of your posts.

Here is a list of UK Insurance companies - and the method by which they issue a duplicate certificate.
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/blog/get-proof-of-your-no-claims-discount/

Perhaps you ought to enlighten them?

Your input might be appreciated elsewhere.;)

MugMugs

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I'm guessing you work for Liberty then - that would explain the 'tone' of your posts.

Here is a list of UK Insurance companies - and the method by which they issue a duplicate certificate.
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/blog/get-proof-of-your-no-claims-discount/

Perhaps you ought to enlighten them?

Your input might be appreciated elsewhere.;)

I'm a loss adjuster with a small company. I have no relation to any insurer not that that has any relevance to your complaint.

The link you quoted is for UK insurers. We live in a different country.

djimi

That site shows how they issue the first NCB cert (which you received). It doesnt mention duplicates.

dilallio

You should have told them that your NCB Cert & Renewal Pack got 'lost in the post' and never arrived.
They would then re-issue immediately.

Dannyboy83

dilallio wrote: »

You should have told them that your NCB Cert & Renewal Pack got 'lost in the post' and never arrived.
They would then re-issue immediately.

Yea, I was told to ring them say I've changed my mind, ask for a renewal pack.

Apparently this has worked for people.

Might give that a try.

Dannyboy83

MugMugs wrote: »

I'm a loss adjuster with a small company. I have no relation to any insurer not that that has any relevance to your complaint.

The link you quoted is for UK insurers. We live in a different country.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiighhhtt, dude. Most helpful of you.

So how do you explain your 'attitude' then?

MugMugs

Let us know how you get on.

https://financialombudsman.ie/

Dannyboy83

MugMugs wrote: »

Let us know how you get on.

https://financialombudsman.ie/

LOL, so no explanation for your 'attitude' will be forthcoming?

Just an Internet Tough guy I take it?:rolleyes:

djimi

You mightnt like his tone, but he is correct in saying if you want to pursue this then you will need to contact the financial ombudsman. They will investigate if they think that something is amiss, or will advise you otherwise.

Dannyboy83

djimi wrote: »

You mightnt like his tone, but he is correct in saying if you want to pursue this then you will need to contact the financial ombudsman. They will investigate if they think that something is amiss, or will advise you otherwise.

I've no problem with anything anyone says. This is my fcuk up after all. All advice is welcome.

I do object to a complete lack of manners however.

Go back and look at his first post and ask yourself, would you speak to a random stranger at a bus stop like that? And would you expect to form a friendship with the person? LOL!

Alanstrainor

OP people are here giving you good advice and all you do in return is respond with an attitude. I reckon you have enough info to go on, so I'm going g to close this one off.