Left turn - Break red light....coming soon

pippip

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minister-considering-move-to-allow-cars-break-red-light-621856.html


As in the states (turn right). Makes so much sense if they actually go through with it.

Can only image the amount of people blasting their horns at others when this first comes in.

Anyway its a step in the right direction.

djimi

While this law makes perfect sense, I think it will cause absolute carnage if introduced over here. Too many people cant even master roundabouts; its asking a lot to expect them to know how to manage a red light that might mean stop and might mean go!

Heroditas

If they had more flashing amber arrows for left turns, it might be a good idea but letting people turn left on red?
No, I can't see it working.

BillJ

Here here! Bit of progressive thinking around irish motoring is a refreshing change

biko

"Coming soon"?, more like "Started thinking about it".

Hope they do go through with it, I'm used to it in the states and it's very easy to pick up. If they can do it so can we.

Nino Brown

djimi wrote: »

While this law makes perfect sense, I think it will cause absolute carnage if introduced over here. Too many people cant even master roundabouts; its asking a lot to expect them to know how to manage a red light that might mean stop and might mean go!

The red light always means stop, then maybe you can go before it turns green, I don't think it will cause any problems.

Cabaal

Most Irish people can't use roundabouts, giving them a grey area at traffic lights is a very bad idea

Guy:Incognito

Considering some people dpnt know that a round green light means they can turn and don't have to wait for the filter (unless theres a specific red for the turn though I don't think they have green light in conjunction with a red filter anywhere, they have a green arrow for straight instead) I predict nothing but good things to come from this.

Nice one. It's a win-win for both pedestrians (longer green lights) and motorists (no more red for everybody while the pedestrians are given the tiny time to cross the road).

FYI: In most of the Europe the pedestrians and turning cars (that turn right on countries that drive on right) have simultaneous green light with a priority given to the peds.

Nino Brown

Cabaal wrote: »

Most Irish people can't use roundabouts, giving them a grey area at traffic lights is a very bad idea

Jesus lads we need really to stop bashing the country so much, no wonder everybody is so depressed! It's a terrible habit.
This system works very well in the US, and believe me, the roads over there aren't full of rocket scientist's.

Guy:Incognito

Actually, just thinking about pedestrians. Theres loads of junctions where you have a green to go straight and a red for left because theres pedestrians crossing there. More often than not when I'm at one of these , at least the first car goes through the red and across the path of pedestrians . This will reinforced the idea in their stupid heads that they are right.

Cabaal

Nino Brown wrote: »

Jesus lads we need really to stop bashing the country so much, no wonder everybody is so depressed! It's a terrible habit.

I'm merely comparing my experience in America and Europe to driving in Ireland, our standard of driving compared to Germany, Luxemburg, France etc is just shocking.

This system works very well in the US, and believe me, the roads over there are full of rocket scientist's.

and yet they don't use roundabouts on any large scale because they can't figure them out,

In the United States modern roundabouts emerged in the 1990s. They faced some opposition from a population mostly unaccustomed to them. American confusion at how to enter and especially how to exit a roundabout was the subject of mockery such as featured in the film European Vacation and the television series The Simpsons.

They only have about 3k of them, thats not very many for a country that size

Nino Brown

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Actually, just thinking about pedestrians. Theres loads of junctions where you have a green to go straight and a red for left because theres pedestrians crossing there. More often than not when I'm at one of these , at least the first car goes through the red and across the path of pedestrians . This will reinforced the idea in their stupid heads that they are right.

In the US, when the lights are red for traffic, they're green for pedestrians, yet traffic can still turn on red. So if you're turning on right on red, you need to be extra careful of pedestrians simple as that. If you hit one you're liable, and if your turning you're not going fast anyway so you won't kill anybody.
When turning left on a green over there, the pedestrians also have a green light, so even when both sides have green lights it works without bodies flying everywhere.

Nino Brown

Cabaal wrote: »

and yet they don't use roundabouts on any large scale because they can't figure them out,

They can figure them out, but after so many years of 4 way stops, where it's first come first served, they don't like roundabouts because you can be there first and somebody else gets to go before you. Its just not the american way. Roundabouts are for commies!

biko

Think I've only seen one RB ever, outside Boston.

And to confuse matters more, not all intersections allow right on red over there.
We could go the way of NYC, where it's the exception and not the rule (there has to be a sign allowing it).

whomitconcerns

drove a lot in romania, you can turn right on red there too and yes the pedestrian lights will be green when you make the turn. You just wait till its clear and proceed. Saves loads of time.

corktina

Red should be an absolute STOP. Flashing amber arrow desirable at some junctions perhaps as then there is an option for them to turn red to allow pedestrians to cross

ba_barabus

corktina wrote: »

Red should be an absolute STOP. Flashing amber arrow desirable at some junctions perhaps as then there is an option for them to turn red to allow pedestrians to cross

Agreed.

Tbh if they want to introduce something simple that would help everyone why not bring in an amber signal before the lights go green to speed everyone up.

whomitconcerns

we should also start driving on the right. Lets see Leo run that one out!

keithclancy

Why don't they just have a green light for Cars and for Pedestrians with Yield to pedestrians.

They do it over here, I must admit I almost mowed down a few people the first few times :eek: until I got used to it.

MugMugs

As a member of the Insurance industry, I really hope this doesn't happen. I've enough to be dealing with.

As a motorist, I hope it's brought in.

Idioteque

*Cough* (For anyone who knows the lights system at Merrion Gates)

Zoney

Should be flashing amber arrow if they do this to show car turning off main road has to yield to pedestrians following the main road.

In my experience of US and Portugal the concept didn't actually work well, people having to jump out of the way of cars. Works fine in Germany of course!

brennarr

I can imagine there would be a lot of 'Who's fault is it?' threads if this was introduced

ironclaw

Just a small point, roads are generally wider in the States than here. At least that was my experience in California and few of the western states. As such, at most junctions, it was two lanes, one of which was normally pretty much reserved for a 'free right' turn. Thats not the case here where most major roads are single lanes or if a requirement is for a left turn, the lane probably already exists and has lights for it.

I'm scanning through my head here for roads around me, and I can't think of a single one where, in traffic, this would be of benefit because unless I'm first in the queue, I'm not going to be able to take advantage of it. This is a route I would do fairly often in the morning and has lately seen a large increase in traffic:

http://goo.gl/maps/0qmdI

A free left would be of no benefit as the majority of the junctions are a single lane in the left i.e. Straight on and left turn, with the majority also having a filter lane to turn right.

Personally, and what I believe would be of more benefit, would be urban junctions becoming flashing amber after 11pm (Think N11 from Donnybrook to Cabinteely) with priority to traffic on the N11. People can successfully cross the likes of A1 (And thats motorway speed) so I don't see it being an issue here.

pajo1981

Nino Brown wrote: »

Jesus lads we need really to stop bashing the country so much, no wonder everybody is so depressed! It's a terrible habit.
This system works very well in the US, and believe me, the roads over there aren't full of rocket scientist's.

+1

'It's a good rule, but won't work over here', is a stupid thing to say.

murphym7

I think the issue of traffic light timing would need to be looked at. If brought in, you now have additional volumes moving that would have been stopped behind red lights. All these junctions would need retiming up and down flow. Could be a disaster.

Macy0161

Turning left on red wouldn't be high on the for me as things that could improve traffic flow. Adding amber to the sequence from Red (along with more camera's if needs be) on junctions, and more (all?) pedestrian crossings having a flashing amber/ flashing green man.

jackofalltrades

Nino Brown wrote: »

Jesus lads we need really to stop bashing the country so much, no wonder everybody is so depressed! It's a terrible habit.
This system works very well in the US, and believe me, the roads over there aren't full of rocket scientist's.

People aren't bashing the country, they're bashing the quality of driving that goes on.

Getting a ticket for breaking a stop sign is very common in the US, so they stop at them. Over here it's rare that I see someone come to a complete stop at a stop sign, you'd want to be really unlucky to be done by the Gards. That and people have issues yielding right of way, there seems to be an unwritten rule that the longer you wait the more of a right you have to barge your way into traffic.

keithclancy

Zoney wrote: »

In my experience of US and Portugal the concept didn't actually work well, people having to jump out of the way of cars. Works fine in Germany of course!

Germany doesn't have turn right on red, they have turn right on green with green also for pedestrians. The car gives way if people or bicycles are crossing the road.

irishgeo

keithclancy wrote: »

Germany doesn't have turn right on red, they have turn right on green with green also for pedestrians. The car gives way if people or bicycles are crossing the road.

It works well in the states.

Anyone know what the correct meaning of a green light is and its not go. I know what it is but I want to check the knowledge of the motors forum.

Nino Brown

irishgeo wrote: »

It works well in the states.

Anyone know what the correct meaning of a green light is and its not go. I know what it is but I want to check the knowledge of the motors forum.

Proceed if safe to do so?

jimgoose

I don't see why not. Pretty much exactly the same as any junction around the place that has no traffic lights. And the Universe does not end whenever traffic lights go on the fritz!

seamus

Let's not forget that credit card-style driving licences were "coming soon" in 2001. Don't get excited because a TD has mentioned this.

There's no reason why in general it wouldn't work here. The first year or so of it coming into operation would likely see a rise in deaths and accidents because everyone isn't thinking about it, but after that it would settle down.

The problem is that we don't have a road system like the US. We have all sorts of weird junctions with 5 or 6 roads, offset junction, hairpin turns, etc. The US has less of these, roads generally meet at a straight crossroads and are designed with road traffic law in mind.

So there would be lots of confusing examples in Ireland. Here's just one, out of thousands:
https://www.google.ie/maps/preview/@53.3184667,-6.2788969,19z

You're Southbound on Harold's X road, and you hit a red light at this junction. Does the "left on red" rule allow you to turn onto Kenilworth Sq. or Rathgar Ave., or both? And if your answer is "both", how does that work?

To avoid this confusion, I think an exclusion rule would work best. That is, you create a new road sign which says, "You may turn left on red here". And then you start putting it up at junctions where that rule would be both useful and not confusing. If the sign doesn't exist, you can't turn.
I think that would make it much clearer to everyone what to expect than just having a blanket left-on-red rule at every junction.

Wossack

hah at the article.. of all the pictures of traffic lights, you had to use one with a green right arrow?