VAT refund on UK import- private sale?

Casati

Hi - looking at buying a 2 month old car in UK privately and importing - seller didn't like it and wants to get rid of it now. If I import to Ireland I am liable for 23% when I got to register her.

I understand if I was buying a vat qualifying car less than 6 months old from a UK dealer, I could buy it VAT free using VAT form 411, however that isn't an option buying it privately

Is their anyway that I can reclaim the VAT from HM in this situation?

CiniO

Casati wrote: »

Hi - looking at buying a 2 month old car in UK privately and importing - seller didn't like it and wants to get rid of it now. If I import to Ireland I am liable for 23% when I got to register her.

I understand if I was buying a vat qualifying car less than 6 months old from a UK dealer, I could buy it VAT free using VAT form 411, however that isn't an option buying it privately

Is their anyway that I can reclaim the VAT from HM in this situation?

There must be.
You will definitely need to pay VAT in Ireland, so you must be able to reclaim it back from UK.
I don't know how to do it though.

Kristopherus

No and No

CiniO

Kristopherus wrote: »

No and No

Was there two questions?

dbrunson

CiniO wrote: »

Was there two questions?

do you have to pay vat


can i reclaim from uk

looks like 2 questions to me

sawdoubters

I would find out if the car is stolen or is financed

not able to reclaim vat,the seller might if the car was removed in two months


Sending your motor vehicle to another EU country from the UK

If you buy a new motor vehicle in the UK to take to somewhere else in the EU, you'll have to pay VAT on the vehicle in the other country when you arrive there. You won't have to pay UK VAT when you buy the car if you tell the supplier that you will be taking the vehicle to another country within the EU. You complete form VAT 411, which the supplier will give you and you agree to do all three of these things:
• you or your authorised driver personally take delivery of the new vehicle in the UK
•you remove it from the UK within two months of its supply to you
• you and your supplier complete and sign form VAT 411 and send it to the address on the form

If you sell a new vehicle to someone who then removes it to another EU country within two months, you may be entitled to a refund of VAT. This only applies if you aren't registered for VAT in the UK, and you can demonstrate that you have paid UK VAT on the vehicle


then you pay tax in Ireland

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html

PaddyFagan

Casati wrote: »

Hi - looking at buying a 2 month old car in UK privately and importing - seller didn't like it and wants to get rid of it now. If I import to Ireland I am liable for 23% when I got to register her.

I understand if I was buying a vat qualifying car less than 6 months old from a UK dealer, I could buy it VAT free using VAT form 411, however that isn't an option buying it privately

Is their anyway that I can reclaim the VAT from HM in this situation?

Looks like no vat liability arises - from http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/vat-and-vrt-on-motor-vehicles.html

See New vehicles (New Means of Transport) purchased by a private individual from a private individual in another country

Where a private person purchases a new means of transport from a private person in another country, there is no VAT chargeable on that transaction.

Stavros Murphy

Kristopherus wrote: »

No and No

Optimistic devil you.

mickdw

No vat chargeable (as in no vat to be returned to uk taxman from the sale) but you will be paying a market value which will likely amount to a price similar to a vat inclusive price unless the uk owner can reclaim their vat payment. You will then also have to pay Irish VAT as in their eyes you will have no record of having paid uk vat.
That would be my understanding and if correct, a terrible deal.
If buying next to new, buy from dealer vat free for export and then pay vat here.
Alternatively, buy over 6 months old and avoid irish vat.

Del2005

mickdw wrote: »

No vat chargeable (as in no vat to be returned to uk taxman from the sale) but you will be paying a market value which will likely amount to a price similar to a vat inclusive price unless the uk owner can reclaim their vat payment. You will then also have to pay Irish VAT as in their eyes you will have no record of having paid uk vat.
That would be my understanding and if correct, a terrible deal.
If buying next to new, buy from dealer vat free for export and then pay vat here.
Alternatively, buy over 6 months old and avoid irish vat.

Don't forget that milage also counts for new vehicles, make sure it's over 6,000km when you present it.

Casati

Thanks for the responses

1). Car has clean title - have checked finance etc. Owner simply didn't like it
2). That ruling with current owner being able to claim vat back is interesting- however I wouldn't be in control of that situation and wouldn't automatically get the vat back from him so its too risky
3). Mileage is only circa 2000 but as I understand it, if its either less than 6km or 6 months I have to pay the 23% vat here

As its not looking straight forward to reclaim the UK VAT I'm going to let it go and as advised shop for something a bit older, (or something else completely)

Kristopherus

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Optimistic devil you.

See Mickdw's post. You have to be registered for VAT here to avoid paying UK Vat. And the only way of avoiding Vat is to get an older car. Also with a new car our friends in Revenue will give a buyer a an estimate of how much vrt is to be paid on the vehicle and then charge a lot more when he goes to pay. There are a myriad of those horror stories going around.

Stavros Murphy

Kristopherus wrote: »

See Mickdw's post. You have to be registered for VAT here to avoid paying UK Vat. And the only way of avoiding Vat is to get an older car. Also with a new car our friends in Revenue will give a buyer a an estimate of how much vrt is to be paid on the vehicle and then charge a lot more when he goes to pay. There are a myriad of those horror stories going around.

In cases where you are VAT registered in Ireland and need to claim UK Vat paid, back from the UK revenue you also need to bring a golden fleece into their offices, with some Myrrh and unicorn horn. They will then consider your claim briefly before rejecting it due to the conjunction between Mars and Jupiter not being at right angles. I.E it's become very hard to do compared to say two years ago. So I wasn't dissing you, I just thought the brevity of your post was funny. Funny but accurate..

Casati

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

In cases where you are VAT registered in Ireland and need to claim UK Vat paid, back from the UK revenue you also need to bring a golden fleece into their offices, with some Myrrh and unicorn horn. They will then consider your claim briefly before rejecting it due to the conjunction between Mars and Jupiter not being at right angles. I.E it's become very hard to do compared to say two years ago. So I wasn't dissing you, I just thought the brevity of your post was funny. Funny but accurate..

I'll leave it at that then. From my investigation anybody can buy a new car vat free in the UK if form 411 is filled out, you don't have to be vat registered. If buying a second hand car more than six month old, and assuming its VAT qualifying you have to be vat registered, but either way its not going to help my immediate problem

mickdw

Casati wrote: »

I'll leave it at that then. From my investigation anybody can buy a new car vat free in the UK if form 411 is filled out, you don't have to be vat registered. If buying a second hand car more than six month old, and assuming its VAT qualifying you have to be vat registered, but either way its not going to help my immediate problem

Yes as I understand it, the vat free export from UK is for anyone, not just vat registered business. You end up paying Irish vat in that case.

Xpro

Casati wrote: »

I understand if I was buying a vat qualifying car less than 6 months old from a UK dealer, I could buy it VAT free using VAT form 411, however that isn't an option buying it privately

Is their anyway that I can reclaim the VAT from HM in this situation?

Vat 411 is only for a brand new unregistered vehicles,once the car is registered that no longer applies.

Marcusm

Xpro wrote: »

Vat 411 is only for a brand new unregistered vehicles,once the car is registered that no longer applies.

Not true! VAT 411 applies to "new means of transport" which is defined in HMRC Notice 728 as including land vehicles up to 6 months old (since first brought into use) provided it has less than 6,000kms. Relevant extract below. It is confusing but in order to be coherent across the member states, it would have to use the same relieving as taxing point.

A motorised land vehicle is not new

• when more than 6 months have elapsed since the date of its first entry into service (see paragraph 2.3), and
• it has, since its first entry into service, travelled under its own power for more than 6000 kilometres.