Dungeon Keeper iOS/Android

Grimebox

Well this is making waves in the gaming industry at the moment receiving 1/10 and 0/10 by some reviewers yet remains suspiciously quite favourable on the play store.

I played it myself briefly and its a fcuking travesty that one of my favourite games from my childhood has been bludgeoned by the EA machine. If this is the future of games, I don't want anything to do with it.

RasTa

Some review in the metro

This game would have been wretched whatever it was called but by defiling an existing game like this – especially one fans have been waiting for so long to be renewed – just makes EA’s contempt for their audience all the more obvious. In fact it’s not just the gamers they seem to despise it’s the very concept of video games themselves.

We were going to refer to Dungeon Keeper as a non-game, but that’s not really accurate. It’s an anti-game. It is purposefully designed not to require thought, skill, or experimentation. Instead it rewards only money and, begrudgingly, patience. If video games had been a part of George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four this would be the only one allowed.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/04/dungeon-keeper-review-microtransaction-hell-4289901/

Gummy Panda

It's awful.

War for the overworld is something to check out instead

ShadowHearth

Making a **** game just for the sake of stealing money with ****y Micro transaction is one thing.

Taking Legendary franchise and pissing all over farns faces - is a new "dick" level of EA.

Mobile games will take over tradiotonal gaming my hole... good luck with that.

ShadowHearth

Its on topic too. EA took Free to play model and screwed so badly, that they can completely put off casual gamers off Games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuJHAqQgi7w

gizmo

Grimebox wrote: »

Well this is making waves in the gaming industry at the moment receiving 1/10 and 0/10 by some reviewers yet remains suspiciously quite favourable on the play store.

I played it myself briefly and its a fcuking travesty that one of my favourite games from my childhood has been bludgeoned by the EA machine. If this is the future of games, I don't want anything to do with it.

There's nothing really suspicious about it. If one looks at the Top Grossing Chart on iTunes, it's clear that these kinds of free to play games are where the largest revenues are. Not only that, but Paid Apps continue to be a rarity even at the lowest levels of the charts. For publishers to be choosing this format for their new titles is about as unsurprising as Half Life 3 not being released for the last three years.

Personally I think the whole thing is a god damn travesty. Not just because the race to the bottom has lead to this kind of nonsense, but because the latest casualty is such a beloved franchise. Doing it to Theme Park clearly wasn't enough so I imagine Theme Hospital will be next in line for this treatment.

In the meantime, fans of Dungeon Keeper can get behind War For the Overworld for some classic DK-inspired action.

Grimebox

Who is their market supposed to be with this game? Fans of the old franchise will be disgusted. I can understand how Simpons's Tapped Out works because of the wide audience it can reach, but this...? What were they thinking

gizmo

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Its on topic too. EA took Free to play model and screwed so badly, that they can completely put off casual gamers off Games.

EA did no such thing. Supercell weren't earning $2.4m per day on the back of 8.5m players with Clash of Clans because they were generous with their IAP system.

The main problem here is that EA have done it to a franchise like Dungeon Keeper.

And the fact that it's EA.

ShadowHearth

gizmo wrote: »

There's nothing really suspicious about it. If one looks at the Top Grossing Chart on iTunes, it's clear that these kinds of free to play games are where the largest revenues are. Not only that, but Paid Apps continue to be a rarity even at the lowest levels of the charts. For publishers to be choosing this format for their new titles is about as unsurprising as Half Life 3 not being released for the last three years.

Personally I think the whole thing is a god damn travesty. Not just because the race to the bottom has lead to this kind of nonsense, but because the latest casualty is such a beloved franchise. Doing it to Theme Park clearly wasn't enough so I imagine Theme Hospital will be next in line for this treatment.

In the meantime, fans of Dungeon Keeper can get behind War For the Overworld for some classic DK-inspired action.

I still cant get around my head, how this horrible business plan is so popular. I cannot really call it free to play model anymore as it would be insulting to fantastic free to play games like World of Tanks, WarThunder,LoL, TF2, Warframe, Dota 2 etc. Its more of "we will bend you over and take every penny off you, because you think it is normal."
I am pretty sure that Majority of people who make millions for these developers are people who never encountered traditional full price gaming in their past. To make it worse, poor gamers who are making their first baby steps in Gaming world will think that this is gaming and this is normal.
I have not bought a single game on my android devices for years now. I did tried very few free to play games, but still did not spent a penny as those were clearly a rip off merchants of a games.
Latest one I tried was that Dragon Age origins one. This is a perfect example of game, which just stripped down all actual "playing" and plays on its own, you are there just to buy micro transaction packs! Angry Jow did a video on that game too. Past level 5, there is no point playing without spending money. Its impossible grind with "wink wink" buy some gems ****.

Like I said in my previous post: Mobile gaming is the future my hole...

Off topic: I could swear I have not seen you in ages m8. Where you gone or am I just blind. If you are just back, then welcome back. IWe Missed ya!

gizmo

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I still cant get around my head, how this horrible business plan is so popular. I cannot really call it free to play model anymore as it would be insulting to fantastic free to play games like World of Tanks, WarThunder,LoL, TF2, Warframe, Dota 2 etc. Its more of "we will bend you over and take every penny off you, because you think it is normal."

I've argued for a long time that these kinds of games aren't free to play, they're just free to download. The games you've mentioned on the PC side of things certainly fit into the former bracket though. The question of course is, are they viable in the long term given the difference in AAA and mobile game teams/costs and how many can the market actually sustain simultaneously.

Speaking of which, an interesting comparison in the PC space is the shift in some MMOs from subscription-based to free-to-play and the rather massive revenue boost that followed.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I am pretty sure that Majority of people who make millions for these developers are people who never encountered traditional full price gaming in their past. To make it worse, poor gamers who are making their first baby steps in Gaming world will think that this is gaming and this is normal.

I'm pretty sure you're correct too. In fact, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't consider themselves gamers either.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Off topic: I could swear I have not seen you in ages m8. Where you gone or am I just blind. If you are just back, then welcome back. IWe Missed ya!

Aye, been a tad busy between work and home projects the last while so turned into a massive lurker instead. Cheers though

BizzyC

I've been playing this as well, wouldn't consider it a proper game though.

There's no chance in hell I'd spend a penny on it, but I'll open it once a day, click on something, come back tomorrow.

Had they actually just remade dungeon keeper 2 for tablets, I'd have easily given them €10....

gizmo

So looks like EA have responded, here's the full interview here.

Gamasutra have a shorter article here and have now updated it based on comments made in response to the original interview namely, that the game doesn't allow you to rate it at less than 5 stars from the in-game system. If you attempt to do so, it instead asks you to email the company with your feedback or dismiss the dialogue.

Ugh, *****.

Vicxas

Wow,

Just fcuk you EA. This whole Microtransaction malarky is breaking my heart, and rebooting classic titles for microtransactions and ha has is just sick.

Cravez

The article tries to faff about the justification of micro-transactions by saying there is no risk involved to the consumer. These types of games should be made in mind where the consumer can purchase the game fully & without restriction for a certain price. For example you buy Dungeon Keeper for €10, you have no restrictions in terms of mining, structure building or anything else the game entails.

Then have a version that includes restrictions, for example how the game is now but minus the micro-transactions. You are restricted to limited amounts of actions in the game until the next day. If you feel you like the game, you can then purchase the game at it's retail price (perhaps even a discount for trying it first), thus lifting the restriction. If you feel happy with the restrictions in place, you can continue to play for free each day with your set restrictions. However give a little more actions per day than what is current.

This way people have no risk but it gives the best of both worlds to both types of players, those who want to play casually and those who want to play intensively.

There is/used to be another way of companies giving consumers access to content without risk, they were called demos.

johnny_ultimate

What kills me about this sort of thing is how many comments you see online saying "haha this proves mobile gaming is ****". No, it proves this mobile game is **** and cynical. The App Store and Play Store have become home to some of the most ambitious and innovative games out there, many of which you pay for outright and are subsequently not bothered again. Also plenty of reasonably balanced, generous free to play offerings.

Beyond the effect this has on the Dungeon Keeper brand and EA's reputation, the knock-on effects it has on gamer perception of mobile gaming generally generally are the most dangerous IMO. This is simply a cash delivery system disguised as a game, where the core mechanics are solely designed around financial or time investment. Better off just playing The Room 2 instead.

ShadowHearth

gizmo wrote: »

So looks like EA have responded, here's the full interview here.

Gamasutra have a shorter article here and have now updated it based on comments made in response to the original interview namely, that the game doesn't allow you to rate it at less than 5 stars from the in-game system. If you attempt to do so, it instead asks you to email the company with your feedback or dismiss the dialogue.

Ugh, *****.

Wait what, you are not allowed to rate it lower then 5 stars and give a bad review? How is this even legal?! Why they allowed do this on appstore?!

Grimebox

EA responds to fevered 'Dungeon Keeper' paywall criticism wrote:

...

but we didn’t make this game for ourselves, we made it for the players.

You made it for the $$$

Grimebox

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

What kills me about this sort of thing is how many comments you see online saying "haha this proves mobile gaming is ****". No, it proves this mobile game is **** and cynical. The App Store and Play Store have become home to some of the most ambitious and innovative games out there, many of which you pay for outright and are subsequently not bothered again. Also plenty of reasonably balanced, generous free to play offerings.

Beyond the effect this has on the Dungeon Keeper brand and EA's reputation, the knock-on effects it has on gamer perception of mobile gaming generally generally are the most dangerous IMO. This is simply a cash delivery system disguised as a game, where the core mechanics are solely designed around financial or time investment. Better off just playing The Room 2 instead.

To be honest, there aren't any games on my Android phone that I consider good outside of emulators. Mobile gaming is ****e according to me

ShadowHearth

Grimebox wrote: »

To be honest, there aren't any games on my Android phone that I consider good outside of emulators. Mobile gaming is ****e according to me

I have to agree. All of the popular games now are pure cash cows and not actual games. When it started off we had some really amazing stand alone games for 1-3eu, which were fun and actual clever when it comes to gaming thanks to touch screen and lower development costs.

cherryghost

There are some quality games on mobile, problem is that 95% of the market is awash with crap.

Retr0gamer

The only people really to blame in this are the morons that pay that sort of money on these games. The people that make these games profitable are a tiny minority of users that end up spending disproportionate amounts of money on them.

James Howlett

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I have to agree. All of the popular games now are pure cash cows and not actual games. When it started off we had some really amazing stand alone games for 1-3eu, which were fun and actual clever when it comes to gaming thanks to touch screen and lower development costs.

I have to disagree. I paid nothing for Flappy Bird and it has given me HOURS of entertainment :pac:

Retr0gamer

James Howlett wrote: »

I have to disagree. I paid nothing for Flappy Bird and it has given me HOURS of entertainment :pac:

Flappy bird is another level of evil altogether. It's not happy with ripping off other much better games, it goes ahead and rips off the art from other games as well. At least they aren't charging for it but I'm amazing the creators haven't been hit with a lawyer squad yet.

Grimebox

James Howlett wrote: »

I have to disagree. I paid nothing for Flappy Bird and it has given me HOURS of entertainment :pac:

That is a perfect example of a ****e mobile game. I played it for 2 mins and saw everything it has to offer.

I think the difference is that I'm looking for an actual game, not 5 mins to waste on the toilet/bus here and there.

gizmo

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Wait what, you are not allowed to rate it lower then 5 stars and give a bad review? How is this even legal?! Why they allowed do this on appstore?!

From what I gather, if you try to give it lower than 5 stars it shows you this screen. Therefore, the only way to give it a lower review is to do it via iTunes or the Play Store directly. Legality doesn't really come into it but I would have hoped this would be against the respective app stores developer terms and conditions.

As I said above though, despite the ****ty situation that EA have created with combining these mechanics with the Dungeon Keeper IP, the absolute worst thing that can come from this is that they just win the worst company of the year award again. The problem is far greater than them or any one game and as johnny_ultimate mentioned above, the result of it continuing unchecked may be an extremely distorted view of what constitutes not just mobile gaming, but gaming in general, being adopted by an extremely large number of people.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The only people really to blame in this are the morons that pay that sort of money on these games. The people that make these games profitable are a tiny minority of users that end up spending disproportionate amounts of money on them.

Yup, most figures I've seen have the actual conversion rate at around 5%. What this has obviously then led to is games being aggressively designed and marketed to as wide an audience as possible so as to make up for the fact that around 95% of the people playing it aren't paying a penny for it.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Flappy bird is another level of evil altogether. It's not happy with ripping off other much better games, it goes ahead and rips off the art from other games as well. At least they aren't charging for it but I'm amazing the creators haven't been hit with a lawyer squad yet.

...and using bots to artificially jack up its popularity. As for not charging for it, that's irrelevant when it's plastered with in-game ads. The "developer" is making $50k a day on it after all.

James Howlett

Grimebox wrote: »

That is a perfect example of a ****e mobile game. I played it for 2 mins and saw everything it has to offer.

I think the difference is that I'm looking for an actual game, not 5 mins to waste on the toilet/bus here and there.

I think that's an important point there. What you mentioned there is what a lot of successful mobile games focus on.

If I'm at home and have an hour or two to spare I'll power up a console or a computer for a certain type of game. I would not expect to play the same type of game via a mobile phone as I already have dedicated systems for traditioanal gaming.

Games like Rayman Jungle Run + Fiesta Run, Fruit Ninja etc are all fine games and suit 2-5minutes here or there via mobile phone.

Grumpypants

It's simple they made a game for a market, if that market didn't exist neither would the game.

If you want a good compelling mobile game buy one.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The only people really to blame in this are the morons that pay that sort of money on these games. The people that make these games profitable are a tiny minority of users that end up spending disproportionate amounts of money on them.

By people you mean children, easily exploited in Candy Crush etc..

johnny_ultimate

Grimebox wrote: »

To be honest, there aren't any games on my Android phone that I consider good outside of emulators. Mobile gaming is ****e according to me

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I have to agree. All of the popular games now are pure cash cows and not actual games. When it started off we had some really amazing stand alone games for 1-3eu, which were fun and actual clever when it comes to gaming thanks to touch screen and lower development costs.

Proving my point :P Nah, mobile gaming has a hell of a lot to offer - Device 6, Year Walk, Super Hexagon, The Room 1 + 2, Blackbar, Ridiculous Fishing, Papa Sangre II etc... are among the best, most progressive games I've played in the last year, easily surpassing a considerable majority of AAA games. And the hours I've lost to the likes of Joe Danger Infinity, Rayman, the Cave ports, Robot Unicorn 2 and more... well, I'm glad they don't prominently display accumulated time played And I'm pretty sure out of all those games the only microtransaction I've ever made is the 79 cent it cost me to get The Neverending Story theme in Robt Unicorn. I regret nothing.

Retr0 has a good point too - it's incredibly easy to blame EA alone here, and yes they deserve all the ire they're getting for this anti-game. But this business model works, and games of this sort are not only routinely at the top of App Store grossing charts, they stay there for months or years. The 'pay or wait to click stuff' style of gaming is almost mind bogglingly popular. Look at the size of the Tapped Out thread in this forum for example, which follows a very similar type of 'game'play model - in fact, it's probably more popular than every thread in the games forum, either surpassing or on a par with the very rare likes of the Skyrim or Dark Souls megathreads. Candy Crush is infinitely more popular than any of the acclaimed games, independent or big budget, many enthusiast gamers and critics like to praise. To a certain degree, publishers and developers would be stupid not to see the euro signs. Shame they drag some well loved franchises down to that level, of course.

As for 95% crap? Sure, but I'd consider that statistic (or higher) to ring true with film, literature, television and gaming generally. Every medium offers a horrible noise to signal ratio, but luckily there's no shortage of signal to those who can filter through it.

Atomic Pineapple

Get the original PC version for free now

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057148774