Home bakery kitchen inspections - anyone with experience?

Lord TSC

So I've got really into baking in the last year or so. Always loved cooking but with my "time off" (read: unemployment), I've really gotten into it. So a little while ago, I thought "Hey, why not do this as a small business venture". Didn't have any grand plans; starting off, I just wanted to open a small website, cater specifically to my local area, print off and hand deliverer flyers, and even if I got one or two cake orders a month, I'd have been happy. And if in time I did ok, I could expand, hit markets, start pushing it bigger, but growing it from a small, organic hobby that didn't cost that much to start up. And if it didn't work, so be it.

Only...when I started looking into the idea, turns out that it's really not the type of idea that, legally, I can do on such a small scale. Which is frustrating, but ok. Fair enough.

I have read numerous topics on here and other sites which goes on about having to get my kitchen approved by the local health boards, though can't find a massive amount of guidelines other than vague "No laundry" stuff or messages which contradict whether there's distinctions between small bakeries done in home kitchens and large slaughterhouses :pac: The truth is I know that my current kitchen would likely fail from what I've read; it's a 10 year old kitchen that's still in good nick but the organisation of where everything is goes against what I've been reading. We're ultra clean (I'm something of a germaphobe so always make sure worktops, sinks, ovens and the likes are sparkling). But our washing machine is under a worktop, we only have one sink...the kitchen wasn't designed for such a venture.

So I was wondering if there was anyone who had gone through such an inspection at home for a home cooking business. Looking at it, starting up such a business would likely now involve "Start up costs" of putting in a new kitchen. Which isn't exactly cheap, but at least I could justify it in a "If the business fails, at least we'd have a new kitchen" way. I've not been able to find any specific set of guidelines online (which imo is a travesty in this day and age).

Anyone got any experience setting up such a little home business? I'd love to have an idea of what changes would be needed in the kitchen before I start sniffing round health inspectors and the likes. I'd be happier having a better idea of what changes I'd need before I start getting it inspected.

Animord

Yes, I have done it and it is not that bad. You need to contact your local EHO and they will tell you what is required. I think that all EHOs interpret the rules slightly differently so you will only know by talking to them.

I put in a second sink, but the first EHO I had was prepared to accept my dishwasher as being a second sink. I also have my washing machine in the kitchen, but it is built in and I had to guarantee that I would never do a wash whilst cooking. I also had to get a second fridge for anything like butter and stuff and a separate cupboard for dry goods. On the whole the EHOs I have dealt with have been very helpful.

They will check you occasionally, but I think once they are happy that you are running a hygienic kitchen they are happy enough.

Best of luck.

Winston79

Animord wrote: »

Yes, I have done it and it is not that bad.

Hi,

Just wondering what the regulations are with transporting food from home, assuming you have to do this in your business?

Is a refrigerated van required by the eho?

Animord

Winston79 wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering what the regulations are with transporting food from home, assuming you have to do this in your business?

Is a refrigerated van required by the eho?

Depends what you are transporting. is it cakes you are interested in too?

Winston79

Animord wrote: »

Depends what you are transporting. is it cakes you are interested in too?

Yeah, cakes, buns, cupcakes and the likes. Home to market to begin with.

Animord

Winston79 wrote: »

Yeah, cakes, buns, cupcakes and the likes. Home to market to begin with.

No, you don't need a refrigerated van. You need some kind of boxes though so that your produce can never get contaminated. I used to use the kind of plastic packing boxes that you get for storing things.

You can't however use fresh cream in anything, if that is your reason for considering refrigeration. Cakes, buns and breads are considered low risk which is why you can do it from home. Once there is fresh cream involved you won't be allowed to do it except in commercial kitchen with refrigeration as there is a much higher risk of food poisoning.

Lord TSC

Animord wrote: »

You can't however use fresh cream in anything, if that is your reason for considering refrigeration. Cakes, buns and breads are considered low risk which is why you can do it from home. Once there is fresh cream involved you won't be allowed to do it except in commercial kitchen with refrigeration as there is a much higher risk of food poisoning.

Didn't actually know that. Thought that since my own plan was to make cakes and deliver them pretty quickly (as opposed to baking and leaving till someone buys it, ala a street bakery), I'd be grand using fresh cream. Didn't realise that sort of rule would apply (though granted, I'm still reading the ins and outs of such a venture). Is that why so many shops and the likes use the (what I call) "Fake Cream"? The one that stays the same for days and days?

Anyway, as an update...
I'm drawing up a business plan at the moment, trying to figure out what I'd need start up wise. As I said in the opening post, I figure the initial investment is the new kitchen and the insurance, and the costs associated with getting the kitchen pass its health inspection.

Was going to ask about the van too, cause I thought looking at buying a cheaper van and getting a nice lick of paint and a fancy ad on the side would help too. So glad that was asked by someone else :P That said, would see this as a luxury starting off, something to get as/if the business grows.

Then there's the ingredients, though starting off, I'd keep it basic; we always have a big thing of flour, eggs, etc anyway. So not much cost there. Likewise, have 90% of the tools involved.

Probably some nice boxes, though plain ones and bought in bulk.

Can do web design myself and already have a hosting package for person reasons. Also pretty good with photoshop and deisgn, so fairly confident I could do some flyers and distribute them myself, so nearly no cost there.


Now....to save up and get the money :P

Animord

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Didn't actually know that. Thought that since my own plan was to make cakes and deliver them pretty quickly (as opposed to baking and leaving till someone buys it, ala a street bakery), I'd be grand using fresh cream. Didn't realise that sort of rule would apply (though granted, I'm still reading the ins and outs of such a venture). Is that why so many shops and the likes use the (what I call) "Fake Cream"? The one that stays the same for days and days?

Anyway, as an update...
I'm drawing up a business plan at the moment, trying to figure out what I'd need start up wise. As I said in the opening post, I figure the initial investment is the new kitchen and the insurance, and the costs associated with getting the kitchen pass its health inspection.

Was going to ask about the van too, cause I thought looking at buying a cheaper van and getting a nice lick of paint and a fancy ad on the side would help too. So glad that was asked by someone else :P That said, would see this as a luxury starting off, something to get as/if the business grows.

Then there's the ingredients, though starting off, I'd keep it basic; we always have a big thing of flour, eggs, etc anyway. So not much cost there. Likewise, have 90% of the tools involved.

Probably some nice boxes, though plain ones and bought in bulk.

Can do web design myself and already have a hosting package for person reasons. Also pretty good with photoshop and deisgn, so fairly confident I could do some flyers and distribute them myself, so nearly no cost there.


Now....to save up and get the money :P

yep fresh cream is one of their big hang ups! :P I also had one EHO who insisted on walking round my garden searching for hens that didn't exist in case I was using eggs that weren't Bord Bia approved! That was a bit of a surreal day.

Do you have your own water, as in a well, or are you on public water? I have a well and have to spend about €2500 putting in water purification equipment (which I got a grant for).

Feel free to ask anything as I did it for a few years before getting out.

Lord TSC

Animord wrote: »

yep fresh cream is one of their big hang ups! :P I also had one EHO who insisted on walking round my garden searching for hens that didn't exist in case I was using eggs that weren't Bord Bia approved! That was a bit of a surreal day.

Do you have your own water, as in a well, or are you on public water? I have a well and have to spend about €2500 putting in water purification equipment (which I got a grant for).

Feel free to ask anything as I did it for a few years before getting out.

You're exactly the type of person I was hoping this thread would attract :P

No, we don't have a well. Generally, when I bake for myself, we used bottled water, though not sure how cost effective that would be if I was looking to make some profit. That said, most of the cakes I'd make don't use that much water.

I'd greatly appreciate any tips or things you'd wish you'd known before you started?

Animord

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You're exactly the type of person I was hoping this thread would attract :P

No, we don't have a well. Generally, when I bake for myself, we used bottled water, though not sure how cost effective that would be if I was looking to make some profit. That said, most of the cakes I'd make don't use that much water.

I'd greatly appreciate any tips or things you'd wish you'd known before you started?

The water thing is not from the point of view of cooking. If your water has traces of Ecoli you can't be washing your hands/utensils in it and then touching food. They will test your water at their expense if they think there may be a problem.

http://www.fsai.ie/food_businesses/starting_business.html

This is a good place to start for legislation and there are many links you should read on there.

There is nothing really that I'd say I wish I knew - if you start doing it from home and use word of mouth that is fine so long as you are not expecting to be retiring on the proceeds any time soon. The problems are that there are many many people out there doing it and you obviously have to be better than them and able to market yourself locally.

Cake making is very antisocial. Almost all cakes are required for Saturdays and holidays so you will find yourself up late on Friday nights trying to get a cake ready for someone's 21st the next day, which if you are trying to feed a family from the same kitchen can be a pain.

When I moved into markets the biggest problem is that while you can have some really good days when you come home with a big handful of cash, there are many more days when it rains, the wind blows your stall over etc and you come home with nothing except a lot of cake.

The reason I got out of it in the end was exactly that - there was too much wastage so I started making a product that has a long shelf life so I don't lose money on a bad day.

What exactly are you planning on doing? Like would you be doing decorated cakes like wedding cakes or plain sponges or apple tarts? If you tell me that I can possibly be more specific with advice.

Gloomtastic!

Can you tell us what product you switched to Animord?

Voltex

OP..id suggest that you familiarise yourself with the types of food products that are considered/classified High/Medium/Low risk. Its not just cream products..but any high protein materials likely to support and promote the growth of pathogenic contaminants (i.e meat, eggs, fish, cheese..etc..etc).
http://www.fao.org/docrep/012/a1552e/a1552e00.pdf

This is basic food processing/hygiene awareness and CRITICAL to ensuring that the products you produce are safe to consume. The FSAI and the UK's FSA have fantastic resources available for this sort of business.

Other areas to be aware of is that you have to retain traceability on all products produced. If your selling packaged goods they must have legally compliant labelling. The implementation of a working HACCP plan is also required for all FBO's (you could download the Codex Alimentarius food safety guide below).
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codexalimentarius.org%2Finput%2Fdownload%2Fstandards%2F23%2FCXP_001e.pdf&ei=-bgHU7m3CMmp7QaK6ICoAw&usg=AFQjCNGx1qgI0C4LDmiOfbZubFHjIbk2ng&sig2=csMOgHHyEqi-WOgUXeyGRw

A big thing in recent times (especially amongst EHO's) is allergen mgmt. Get to know the basic 14 EU recognised allergenic materials and demonstrate how you control these.

Animord

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Can you tell us what product you switched to Animord?

I make a variety of flavoured mustards and chilli jam mostly.

bizzyb

Animord wrote: »

I make a variety of flavoured mustards and chilli jam mostly.

Just wondering do you know can you handle wild forged berries to make jams at home?I have a hawthorn berry recipe that i make a batch for family and friends every autumn but i think it would sell really well if i stepped up production.

Animord

bizzyb wrote: »

Just wondering do you know can you handle wild forged berries to make jams at home?I have a hawthorn berry recipe that i make a batch for family and friends every autumn but i think it would sell really well if i stepped up production.

As far as I know you can. There are plenty of people out there who are selling foraged stuff. You need to discuss it with your EHO. Also check with your insurance that they are happy.


To all the other posters, don't forget about insurance with the baking. You will need it and can't trade at any markets without it.

Lord TSC

Animord wrote: »

What exactly are you planning on doing? Like would you be doing decorated cakes like wedding cakes or plain sponges or apple tarts? If you tell me that I can possibly be more specific with advice.

Well, as I said in the opening post, it was an idea starting off to take a hobby and try and make a little cash out of it. I'm (sadly) long term unemployed right now, and while I wasn't under the illusion I could make a massive life for myself out of it, the hope was to do a cake or two every two weeks and make a little profit from something I enjoy doing.
Create a website, take the odd order, deliver it and enjoy having a small business with plenty of room to grow.

At the moment, I can do plenty of the basics really well. Sponges, tarts, chocolate cakes and the likes. I've been working on my icing skills too, though wouldn't be as confident in them. Have also started making pasta, which is great with just egg and flour. Nothing revolutionary, but then not looking to become a baking kingpin :P

Animord

Ok. Actually if I had to give just one piece of advice it would be don't undersell yourself. Have a look at the British Sugarcraft Guild website forum for the trials and tribulations of cake making for the public.

Do all of your costings and then add at least the minimum wage for your time. So many people don't do this and then discover they are working for nothing.

And, hard as it is, don't be tricked into doing it cheap for friends - people are so used to paying Tesco/Dunnes etc rates that they will be shocked at what it really costs to make things from scratch.

seosamh1980

Re: fresh cream, you wouldn't be "grand" using it because you plan to deliver your cakes quickly. Fresh cream can be out of the fridge for 30 mins, any cake with fresh cream needs to be refrigerated from the moment it's assembled until it's ready to be served, so you would need a refrigerated van, it can only be used in dessert cakes (not inside sugarpaste icing), and you are subject to more rigorous rules from your EHO.

Just contact your local EHO and arrange for them to come out to see your kitchen and they can advise on your specific kitchen and the products you want to produce from it. There are different rules for each area and each EHO for everything from the type of lights in the kitchen, to extra fridge/no extra fridge required, to Goods In sheets required/not required, cream/mascarpone/eggs etc.

Voltex

seosamh1980 wrote: »

Re: fresh cream, you wouldn't be "grand" using it because you plan to deliver your cakes quickly. Fresh cream can be out of the fridge for 30 mins, any cake with fresh cream needs to be refrigerated from the moment it's assembled until it's ready to be served, so you would need a refrigerated van, it can only be used in dessert cakes (not inside sugarpaste icing), and you are subject to more rigorous rules from your EHO.

Just contact your local EHO and arrange for them to come out to see your kitchen and they can advise on your specific kitchen and the products you want to produce from it. There are different rules for each area and each EHO for everything from the type of lights in the kitchen, to extra fridge/no extra fridge required, to Goods In sheets required/not required, cream/mascarpone/eggs etc.

Just to add to that. You would need to be in a position to prove that you delivered and held your products at the correct temps. Records of temps., thermograph printouts, production times, dump times..etc..etc..
High risk foods are not something to take on lightly.