Local Property Tax (LPT) Rant

cormicar

Can someone please explain to me why I have to pay this tax on something that I am making a €120k loss on?It's my one and only property and I live in it. Doesn't seem very fair in my opinion. It feels like I am being kicked while I'm down. A person should never be taxed for making a loss.

I am all for paying taxes for services that I use. At least with water tax I am getting a relatively clean source of water but what are you getting out of property tax. Nothing!!

Geuze

Capital gains tax is a tax on selling as asset.

A property tax is a tax on holding/owning an asset.

The LPT will go towards the county council.

The State will give the CC less funds.

The fiscal deficit will fall.

The tax base has got wider.

cormicar

I understand that LPT will go to FCC but for what exactly.

My property is not an asset, it's a huge liability...

Geuze

For what exactly?

It's not earmarked for anything in particular.

Just Co. Co. revenue to meet Co. Co. expenditure.

Mr. Incognito

cormicar wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why I have to pay this tax on something that I am making a €120k loss on?It's my one and only property and I live in it. Doesn't seem very fair in my opinion. It feels like I am being kicked while I'm down. A person should never be taxed for making a loss.

I am all for paying taxes for services that I use. At least with water tax I am getting a relatively clean source of water but what are you getting out of property tax. Nothing!!

I don't really get this. You are not making a loss. You bought your house at X price. You own it. You live in it. It is not an investment property.

If you buy a kettle and two weeks later there is a sale on and it is half price you did not make a loss. You bought a product for the price you were willing to pay. You are getting value out of it while you are living there. If you sell your property at a loss only THEN can you be said to have made a loss. If you keep it for the next ten years your equity will have increased. This doesn't mean you will have made a profit. It just means if you SELL it you can have made a profit.

Taxing Property is long overdue. The lack of a decent property tax one of the reasons nurses and guards were running around buying up investment properties they could not afford to service. Ireland has a low taxation base, for income tax, corporate tax and property. It needs to be wider to pay for decent schools, hospitals and public services.

Johnsee

Disagree with you totally, the same middle income people being hit for this abhorrant tax for which we receive no services, at least in the UK you receive services for it, be in no doubt this money is not going for local services but to pay banking debts....

cormicar

I couldn't disagree with you (Mr. Incognito) more on this.

Firstly, I bought my house to live in and not to make money. If I sell it now I will incur a loss. Fact. In other words its a liability and you shouldn't pay tax on it.

You bought a product for the price you were willing to pay.

This is where your wrong. I borrowed what the bank would give me within reason and I have no problem paying back what I borrowed.Lets be clear about this - banks have always and will always have a huge influence on what the price of a house will sell for. It is all supply and demand but without the supply of money the demand would/could not be there.

If you sell your property at a loss only THEN can you be said to have made a loss.

If I do make a loss, can I claim back the money that I have paid the council. Doubt it!!

Taxing Property is long overdue. The lack of a decent property tax one of the reasons nurses and guards were running around buying up investment properties they could not afford to service.

I watched a documentary on BBC the other night about foreigners and locals coming in and buying up investment properties in London and I do agree with large property taxes on these type of properties but taxing someone on their primary residence is not right.

Ireland has a low taxation base, for income tax, corporate tax and property. It needs to be wider to pay for decent schools, hospitals and public services.

Bringing in another random tax to supplement income tax to help pay for public services is a joke. Why not just increase income tax and stop bull****ting us. Most people will have to pay it one way or the other. Next it will be a tax on air to pay for parks.Lets call a spade a spade.
We need to be pressurising the government to be making cuts to the money we are paying the IMF and the ECB and not just accepting every tax they throw at us.

Geuze

Johnsee wrote: »

Disagree with you totally, the same middle income people being hit for this abhorrant tax for which we receive no services, at least in the UK you receive services for it, be in no doubt this money is not going for local services but to pay banking debts....

Property taxes are sensible, that is widely accepted by analysts.

Property taxes have several advantages over income taxes.

You are correct, pouring 64bn into the banking system was a disaster, sickening, socialising private losses, I agree with you.

But I also agree with property taxes.

Geuze

cormicar wrote: »

Bringing in another random tax to supplement income tax to help pay for public services is a joke. Why not just increase income tax and stop bull****ting us. Most people will have to pay it one way or the other. Next it will be a tax on air to pay for parks.Lets call a spade a spade.
We need to be pressurising the government to be making cuts to the money we are paying the IMF and the ECB and not just accepting every tax they throw at us.

The top MTR is already at 52% on average wages, so that should not be increased. Indeed, it's crazy that average workers pay MTR of 52%.

Now, I agree with you that average income tax rates on some people are too low.

My parents earn 900pw and pay 5-10% income taxes. That is too low. So I suggest that effective income tax on some groups should double.

The Bishop Basher

Geuze wrote: »

The LPT will go towards the county council.

Wrong.

In Wicklow for example. Only one fifth of the local tax take on LPT is funding local services according the the 2014 figures. Four fifths will be used to pay off our European masters. So glad I didn't pay this tax.

Spanish Eyes

Swanner wrote: »

Wrong.

In Wicklow for example. Only one fifth of the local tax take on LPT is funding local services according the the 2014 figures. Four fifths will be used to pay off our European masters. So glad I didn't pay this tax.

They will get you in the end.

Maybe YOU won't pay, but your heirs will, and if you sell your property aswell.

Good luck. Big bro is out there.

But maybe you have circumvented this...so would you care to share?

(maybe you are renting, good move.... )

Mr. Incognito

Swanner wrote: »

Wrong.

In Wicklow for example. Only one fifth of the local tax take on LPT is funding local services according the the 2014 figures. Four fifths will be used to pay off our European masters. So glad I didn't pay this tax.

There is no way around it. When you go to sell the house or pass it as an inheritance the solicitor will look for LPT receipts. If they are not paid the tax which be a charge on the disposal and will have to be taken out of the monies received. You are only delaying the inevitable.

@Cormicar. We are too far apart to engage in any meaningless debate. I don't accept any of your position and your misunderstanding of the definition of liability and loss means that it would just be pointless engaging in dialogue. You have your views. You are welcome to them. You seem to be blaming the banks and the government and anyone that will listen when you decided to buy a house and now refuse to take responsibility for it.

cormicar

I have taken full responsibility for my property and will continue to pay the money that I borrowed as I believe one should always pay their debts. I just have a problem with interest rates but that's a story for another day.

meaningless debate

Surely you mean meaningful debate?

Liability: a person or thing whose presence or behaviour is likely to put one at a disadvantage. Do you disagree with the Oxford English dictionary?

In my opinion,there are 3 parties to blame for the current economic mess. The Banks, the Government and the borrowers. I feel that the hard working middle class of this country have paid enough and we need to stop being punished for the wreckless lending practices of the Banks.

Even if all LPT goes directly to my local council to help pay for lighting,parks and public services, the fact of the matter is,the income tax that would have paid for these public services will be going to large international banks to service a debt that we have no responsibility to pay.