Knocking down a wall, need any permission?

Zuzi

Hi all, we just bought an house, and now we'd like to create a open living space between kitchen and sitting room (which is much smaller than kitchen).
By the way I am not Irish, so don't know about the law.
I've called a friend that is a construction worker, he said we can do it but need to put a beam for support on the top of wall where we create the opening since is a supportive wall.
Now this is fine, great...but anyone know if I need to get any permission in order to do it? Anything from engineer or architect or from local authority? I don't want to regret later on...
Thanks for your help

Marta

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Zuzi wrote: »

Hi all, we just bought an house, and now we'd like to create a open living space between kitchen and sitting room (which is much smaller than kitchen).
By the way I am not Irish, so don't know about the law.
I've called a friend that is a construction worker, he said we can do it but need to put a beam for support on the top of wall where we create the opening since is a supportive wall.
Now this is fine, great...but anyone know if I need to get any permission in order to do it? Anything from engineer or architect or from local authority? I don't want to regret later on...
Thanks for your help

Marta

Looking at doing the same thing myself. As far as I know no planning oermission needed. As an aside how much did your friend say it would cost?

Sir Arthur Daley

No planning needed for such work, going open plan really increases space and light, will make a mess but well worth it, just consider you will need tiles/flooring to match where the wall was.

Zuzi

Hi,
thanks everyone!

@cheekycheeky The price will be about 1000 euros since we want to put a wood beam and only this one could cost around 300 euros.
I think is a good price, thinking that should include the labor work and material.
If you want to have a price from him I can give you his number.

@WikiHow About the flooring tiles and hard wood of the living room, we already are aware about.

But yes, anyway we really like the open space feeling, since the house is as well w-e exposed so in this case the kitchen and open space living room will get the sun (or the rain...) all day long!

thanks

Outkast_IRE

It would be quite stupid to do this work and not get a structural engineer to sign off the work and tell you what size and type of beam you need. If you sell your house in years to come it could become a major stumbling block or if you value safety I would be getting the engineer to sign it off.

Sir Arthur Daley

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

It would be quite stupid to do this work and not get a structural engineer to sign off the work and tell you what size and type of beam you need. If you sell your house in years to come it could become a major stumbling block or if you value safety I would be getting the engineer to sign it off.

Any builder will be able to safely carry out that work in making the decisions on beams and structural issues.

Rabbo

^ That's ridiculous and dangerous advice. Builders are in no way qualified to make structural decisions. Get an engineer involved OP. You don't need planning permission.

Outkast_IRE

WikiHow wrote: »

Any builder will be able to safely carry out that work in making the decisions on beams and structural issues.

This is incorrect, unless he has the qualifications to sign off the structural work. Although a lot of builders will tell you im doing x number of years hundreds of jobs etc etc. But at the end of the day unless you have it certified your only fooling yourself, and the builder is pocketing the money for uncertified work.

Honestly certifying and getting advice on work like this would be relatively cheap if you ring round first and get some quotes from engineers.

Sir Arthur Daley

I have worked with several engineers in the last couple of years and a few of them newly qualified and they are clueless in the real world, book fed for years in collage and their ideas and solutions for various issues completely nonsensical, people should not be mistaking builders as uneducated gombeens.

Red Nissan

IMHO, the quoted €1,000 and beam cost of just of just €300 is far too lenient.

Some make over show I watched recently had similar beams running at a grand alone. I remember saying "for a bit of wood?"

Rabbo

WikiHow wrote: »

I have worked with several engineers in the last couple of years and a few of them newly qualified and they are clueless in the real world, book fed for years in collage and their ideas and solutions for various issues completely nonsensical, people should not be mistaking builders as uneducated gombeens.

Your post sums up what is wrong with the construction industry in this country. Builders are trained to build. Engineers and architects are trained to design. Suggesting builders are qualified to specify structural members is ridiculous. Hopefully the new building control regulations will weed out alot of this rubbish.

Outkast_IRE

WikiHow wrote: »

I have worked with several engineers in the last couple of years and a few of them newly qualified and they are clueless in the real world, book fed for years in collage and their ideas and solutions for various issues completely nonsensical, people should not be mistaking builders as uneducated gombeens.

If you expect a newly qualified engineer or newly qualified person in any profession to walk out of college with perfect solutions for every situation then its an unrealistic expectation. Every single college course needs real world experience at the end of it, and a guiding hand from an experienced senior qualified person.

I didn't once say any such thing about builders with my own background I have worked with many, a lot of whom were as knowledgeable as any engineer in some areas, but the point still stands for the work to be certified it needs an engineer sign off, and work does need to be signed off, when a house is being sold or an insurance company get involved work that isn't signed off can become a nightmare. The college education comes in useful when you need to do the number crunching and mathematically prove that their solution is acceptable to building regs etc.

This is reminding me of the countless attic conversions for a bedroom that were never signed off by an engineer and when the time of sale comes and certs are looked for its a big issue.

beer enigma

Moving this to construction & planning as more appropriate

Gumbo

WikiHow wrote: »

I have worked with several engineers in the last couple of years and a few of them newly qualified and they are clueless in the real world, book fed for years in collage and their ideas and solutions for various issues completely nonsensical, people should not be mistaking builders as uneducated gombeens.

You sir are exacty why we need the new building control amendment regulations.

OP, get an engineer in, one days work including site visit, structural calculations and a detailed sketch of what the builder needs to do covers every bodies ass, even if Tubulidentata has done it 1000 times before.

If your floor collapses next month, who are you going to blame? Who will your home insurance company blame and will they pay out if you've done a major modification to your home without professional advice and input.

It won't cost must anyway.

BryanF

No structural advice here please, thats best kept for a site visit by qualified engineer.

DOCARCH

WikiHow wrote: »

No planning needed for such work...

...unless the house is a Protected Structure, planning permission possibly required in that case.

Just thought I'd throw in that nugget. As 'teased' out above, seek professional advice.

sawdoubters

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/planning_perm_altering_a_house.html

Zuzi

Wow guys never thought that my new thread could cause such a nice exchange of ideas.
Well I'll try to find a engineer to get a quote, does anyone of you know someone that will not ask me a fortune? I've just bought the house and our finance are really down right now 😒
Thanks to everyone

BryanF

Zuzi wrote: »

Wow guys never thought that my new thread could cause such a nice exchange of ideas.
Well I'll try to find a engineer to get a quote, does anyone of you know someone that will not ask me a fortune? I've just bought the house and our finance are really down right now 😒
Thanks to everyone

why not look for an engineer here

tell me, did you discuss this with the engineer you used to check the house over prior to purchase? why not go back to him/her for a spec on this..

Zuzi

Yes, and engineer did the survey of the house....
Maybe I'll ask him...

BryanF

Zuzi wrote: »

Yes, and engineer did the survey of the house....
Maybe I'll ask him...

There you go

blacktea

DOCARCH wrote: »

...unless the house is a Protected Structure, planning permission possibly required in that case.

Just thought I'd throw in that nugget. As 'teased' out above, seek professional advice.

you should validate this but afaik Doarch is spot on..if the building is on the register of protected structures then you will require permission for internal works

Zuzi

Thank, the building is not protect, since was built on 2005...really young one!

blacktea

Zuzi wrote: »

Thank, the building is not protect, since was built on 2005...really young one!

ah your ok so! Regarding the engineer beam design / certification, might seem like overkill but worth it....

Dtoffee

Knocking down any wall is dangerous, knocking down a supporting wall is lethal and my advice is to seek expert structural engineers advice if you can afford it. If you are trying to keep costs down, are there any similar jobs done to houses around you ... maybe ask around and see if you can find out what your neighbours did, what builder they used and what it cost them.

To be honest, I would always say an Rolled Steel Joist is the best solution for anyone considering taking a wall out. Timber can work but has its limitations and is nowhere near as strong or durable.