New entrants to dairy after April 1st 2015.

exercise is the antidote

Hey, what does one need as regards selling milk as a new entrant after April 1rst 2015.
How does it work. ?
I am not talking about set up costs. More so selling milk and to who.. and nitrates deragative and the red tape that everybody talks about?

Does one need shares to company they are selling milk too!
Is there contracts if so how long/ on what terms?
Do you get docked for when selling your milk?for tbc and the likes?
Does one get paid on solids or litres of milk?

merryberry

What will new entrants in 2015 do with milk up to april 1st 2015 if they haven't secured quota?

delaval

merryberry wrote: »

What will new entrants in 2015 do with milk up to april 1st 2015 if they haven't secured quota?

Dump it.

delaval

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Hey, what does one need as regards selling milk as a new entrant after April 1rst 2015.
How does it work. ?
I am not talking about set up costs. More so selling milk and to who.. and nitrates deragative and the red tape that everybody talks about?

Does one need shares to company they are selling milk too!
Is there contracts if so how long/ on what terms?
Do you get docked for when selling your milk?for tbc and the likes?
Does one get paid on solids or litres of milk?

Depends on which area you are in. Glanbia require no shares, most others do.
Glanbia will require contract for 5 yrs with a notice period of 2 yrs to terminate effectively 7 yrs

Nitrates depend on your stocking rate

Yes deductions for quality

Paid for solids

merryberry

delaval wrote: »

Dump it.

seriously:eek: could you not sell some of it to calf to beef rearers as milk replacer substitute ??? I don't know...

bob charles

merryberry wrote: »

seriously:eek: could you not sell some of it to calf to beef rearers as milk replacer substitute ??? I don't know...

Im interested. I dont think there is anything stopping feeding it to big animals. I know someone who used do it, whether it was legal or not I dont know. 650cal per kilo:)

merryberry

bob charles wrote: »

Im interested. I dont think there is anything stopping feeding it to big animals. I know someone who used do it, whether it was legal or not I dont know. 650cal per kilo:)

How would u feed it Bob? Would it sour silage do you think?

delaval

merryberry wrote: »

seriously:eek: could you not sell some of it to calf to beef rearers as milk replacer substitute ??? I don't know...

There was a thread that had to be closed because of peoples views on milk being moved. You could of course sell as cattle or calf feed but it would be illegal and a good few on here wouldn't be happy!!!

bob charles

merryberry wrote: »

How would u feed it Bob? Would it sour silage do you think?

just mix it in with the mixed ration, Ah sure hold on a minute, how much whey did we use in the past :rolleyes:

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

There was a thread that had to be closed because of peoples views on milk being moved. You could of course sell as cattle or calf feed but it would be illegal and a good few on here wouldn't be happy!!!

I doubt it is illegal to sell as cattle feed. That would make getting beastlings off a neighbor illegal aswell. Whey used come from the processors

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

I doubt it is illegal to sell as cattle feed. That would make getting beastlings off a neighbor illegal aswell. Whey used come from the processors

Don't want to start a row but its illegal to trade milk without licence.

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Don't want to start a row but its illegal to trade milk without licence.

illegal to trade for human consumption, not for animal feed though. Surely you can sell surplus milk to a farmer say next door that was using it for feeding calves. gift it so

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

illegal to trade for human consumption, not for animal feed though. Surely you can sell surplus milk to a farmer say next door that was using it for feeding calves. gift it so

Not sure

Brown Podzol

bob charles wrote: »

Im interested. I dont think there is anything stopping feeding it to big animals. I know someone who used do it, whether it was legal or not I dont know. 650cal per kilo:)

Worth 21c/litre when fed to pigs.

Greengrass1

Uncle was down today and he said he has sold a good few milk pumps over the last while for pumping milk

funny man

delaval wrote: »

Not sure

I am and it is.

darragh_haven

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Uncle was down today and he said he has sold a good few milk pumps over the last while for pumping milk

Talk about trying to start a arguement....;)

funny man

delaval wrote: »

Depends on which area you are in. Glanbia require no shares, most others do.
Glanbia will require contract for 5 yrs with a notice period of 2 yrs to terminate effectively 7 yrs

Nitrates depend on your stocking rate

Yes deductions for quality

Paid for solids

I was under the impression that you could give notice 2 yrs before the contract is up.

funny man

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Worth 21c/litre when fed to pigs.

I asked this question of a guy on here from up in Cavan I think. He had a guy with pigs interested in buying milk, now I was just wondering if it would be worthwhile for piggeries to handle milk for the year ahead. I know they all have fancy computerised feeding and the like and it is totally illegal without a licence which some people may have a problem with, but it could be an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

delaval

funny man wrote: »

I was under the impression that you could give notice 2 yrs before the contract is up.

Sign for 5 yrs with a 2 yrs notice period at the end is my understanding

funny man

That shouldn't be. when a contract is up you should have the right to renew or move on. seems like they are 7 year contracts if you can't move at 5. Lakeland are looking at a 3 year contract but will probably copy some of the other processors. interesting one my Glanbia meal rep was sounding me out to see if I would consider moving from Lakeland.

kevthegaff

Whats wrong with selling milk for the poor pigs????

funny man

Unless the piggery has a licence for it they are not allowed to take it and even with a licence they would be supposed to test it for antibiotics before feeding it(which could be done without much hassle). As a country we should be a little more creative in this area rather than writhing a cheque for €40M.

kevthegaff

i wonder with the bad weather and later calvers will it help the Superlevy situation????

maxxuumman

funny man wrote: »

Unless the piggery has a licence for it they are not allowed to take it and even with a licence they would be supposed to test it for antibiotics before feeding it(which could be done without much hassle). As a country we should be a little more creative in this area rather than writhing a cheque for €40M.

It's a bit of thinking like this is what's needed now from the dept of agri. But can't see them coming up with anything inovative soon, and coops probably wouldn't encourage it.

maxxuumman

kevthegaff wrote: »

i wonder with the bad weather and later calvers will it help the Superlevy situation????

Every bit will help.
On this, how is progress going with calving for everyone. Checked the diary last night, had 50% calved by 10/02 last year. It's early yet but can't see it happening this year.

kevthegaff

Only 13 calved, had 30 this time last year. im alot later this year, dont know how im gona move the late bull calves!!

Farmer Ed

funny man wrote: »

That shouldn't be. when a contract is up you should have the right to renew or move on. seems like they are 7 year contracts if you can't move at 5. Lakeland are looking at a 3 year contract but will probably copy some of the other processors. interesting one my Glanbia meal rep was sounding me out to see if I would consider moving from Lakeland.

Couldn't agree more with you! Why some people can't see that I just don't know. I also know a Dairygold farmer who has not signed the Dairygold contract who has been sounded by Glainbia. He is now just so happy he didn't sign as he now has bargaining power he would have lost had he signed.
Pease find below some details from the 2012 EU Milk Package. I have copied and pasted 2 relevant paragraphs from it but if you want to read all the package please just click on the link. or go to www.dmssg.com and you'll get a link there. What our co ops are trying to do to us is totally illegal ! It's just crazy! They are just trying to shut down competition after 2015. Why cant farmers see it for what it is?

(Article from the 2012 EU milk package)
(10) In order to ensure appropriate minimum standards for such contracts and to ensure that the internal market and the common market organisation function well, some basic conditions for the use of such contracts should be laid down at Union level. All such basic conditions should, however, be freely negotiated. Nevertheless, in order to strengthen the stability of the dairy market and the outlet for milk producers in certain Member States where the use of extremely short contracts is quite widespread, Member States should be allowed to set a minimum contract duration to be included in such contracts and/or offers. Such minimum duration should however be imposed only on contracts between first purchasers and milk producers or in the offers made by first purchasers to milk producers. Moreover, it should not impair the proper functioning of the internal market and milk producers should be free to opt out or refuse such a minimum duration. Among the basic conditions, it is important that the price payable for the delivery can be set in the contract, at the choice of the contracting parties, as a static price or a price varying depending on defined factors, such as the volume and the quality or composition of the raw milk delivered, without excluding the possibility of a combination of a static price for a certain volume and a formula price for an additional volume of raw milk delivered in a single contract.

(11) Dairy cooperatives which have in their statutes or in the rules and decisions based thereon provisions with effects similar to those of the basic conditions for contracts laid down in this Regulation should, in the interests of simplicity, be exempted from a requirement that there be a written contract.
http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/milk/milk-package/index_en.htm

farmertipp

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with you! Why some people can't see that I just don't know. I also know a Dairygold farmer who has not signed the Dairygold contract who has been sounded by Glainbia. He is now just so happy he didn't sign as he now has bargaining power he would have lost had he signed.
Pease find below some details from the 2012 EU Milk Package. I have copied and pasted 2 relevant paragraphs from it but if you want to read all the package please just click on the link. or go to www.dmssg.com and you'll get a link there. What our co ops are trying to do to us is totally illegal ! It's just crazy! They are just trying to shut down competition after 2015. Why cant farmers see it for what it is?

(Article from the 2012 EU milk package)
(10) In order to ensure appropriate minimum standards for such contracts and to ensure that the internal market and the common market organisation function well, some basic conditions for the use of such contracts should be laid down at Union level. All such basic conditions should, however, be freely negotiated. Nevertheless, in order to strengthen the stability of the dairy market and the outlet for milk producers in certain Member States where the use of extremely short contracts is quite widespread, Member States should be allowed to set a minimum contract duration to be included in such contracts and/or offers. Such minimum duration should however be imposed only on contracts between first purchasers and milk producers or in the offers made by first purchasers to milk producers. Moreover, it should not impair the proper functioning of the internal market and milk producers should be free to opt out or refuse such a minimum duration. Among the basic conditions, it is important that the price payable for the delivery can be set in the contract, at the choice of the contracting parties, as a static price or a price varying depending on defined factors, such as the volume and the quality or composition of the raw milk delivered, without excluding the possibility of a combination of a static price for a certain volume and a formula price for an additional volume of raw milk delivered in a single contract.

(11) Dairy cooperatives which have in their statutes or in the rules and decisions based thereon provisions with effects similar to those of the basic conditions for contracts laid down in this Regulation should, in the interests of simplicity, be exempted from a requirement that there be a written contract.
http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/milk/milk-package/index_en.htm

Why would that dg supplier go 6glanbia and take a lower price for milk?

Farmer Ed

Well I understand that 17 suppliers are gone to Botherbue in the last year and more would have gone but for Dairygolds CEO and 2 other managers invading the Botherbue managers office and telling him if he took anymore suppliers they would under cut the price Botherbue are getting from Craft foods. The one good thing about a small co op like Botherbue is that the board members come out and tell shareholders what is going on.


Can you not see now want has happened with Glanbia and Strathroy? Can you not see that post 2015 who ever controls a pool of milk controls an asset? I sure hope you invested that bonus wisely because in effect when you signed that contract you signed away an asset.

Can you please log on to www.dmssg.com and go to the EU link re. the 2012 EU milk package. It was put in place by the EU to protect farmers. But clearly our co ops are not complying with it . The only ones who seem to be are Strathroy. Should that not sound alarm bells for you??? Is it not clear that the co ops are running scared of competition and that is what these contracts (that are clearly at odds with EU law) are clearly all about?

rancher

Its great to see new entrants can now supply milk without shares/levy to some coops.
They'll have enough to do to finance inside their own farm gate.
Was nearly eaten when I suggested this a year or so ago

Farmer Ed

rancher wrote: »

Its great to see new entrants can now supply milk without shares/levy to some coops.
They'll have enough to do to finance inside their own farm gate.
Was nearly eaten when I suggested this a year or so ago

Fair play to Strathroy for making it possible:)

freedominacup

rancher wrote: »

Its great to see new entrants can now supply milk without shares/levy to some coops.
They'll have enough to do to finance inside their own farm gate.
Was nearly eaten when I suggested this a year or so ago

I'm just pricing up the cost of getting 24 acres up to speed for milking and it's serious. The water alone will cost 60-70 euro per acre. Reseeding last year was well over 250 and there will be no change out of 200 euro per acre for the roadways. This is where I am grafting onto existing roads and water systems and the land starts 20 feet from the dairy door. I'm not including the weeks hire for a track machines when we bought it first or fencing which we have a lot of done. Fencing I think with a contractor could hit another 100 euro per acre. We could easily spend another 30-40 per acre on water but will leave things so that it will be an easy upgrade.

Greengrass1

freedominacup wrote: »

I'm just pricing up the cost of getting 24 acres up to speed for milking and it's serious. The water alone will cost 60-70 euro per acre. Reseeding last year was well over 250 and there will be no change out of 200 euro per acre for the roadways. This is where I am grafting onto existing roads and water systems and the land starts 20 feet from the dairy door. I'm not including the weeks hire for a track machines when we bought it first or fencing which we have a lot of done. Fencing I think with a contractor could hit another 100 euro per acre. We could easily spend another 30-40 per acre on water but will leave things so that it will be an easy upgrade.

Lad in my discussion group leased 100 acres beside his parlour two yrs ago,he has it all fenced and roadwayed and has all water pipes down. But he pulls a 40gallon troughs and water pipe from paddock to paddock . he loves hardship
All he has to do is place all the concrete troughs and connect them up.
Still hasn't got it done ha

Bactidiaryl

rancher wrote: »

Its great to see new entrants can now supply milk without shares/levy to some coops.
They'll have enough to do to finance inside their own farm gate.
Was nearly eaten when I suggested this a year or so ago

Sounds like a race to the bottom if you ask me.

frazzledhome

Bactidiaryl wrote: »

Sounds like a race to the bottom if you ask me.

???????

awaywithyou

I may have an opportunity to start up a wee herd of my own cows in the near future... On a relatives farm.... He used to milk there upto 8 yrs ago... Buildings are still there but equipment is absent.... Roadways in place.... But land needs to be reseeded... And fenced and water has to b sorted....

Compared to jacks list in last wks journal for new entrants... There isn't a lot to be done to get up and going....

Should A lad go for it....? Considering we have a sizeable herd of cows here that I run with mom and dad... Time would be e biggest issue... But feck it we could work around it!

kevthegaff

Why not if its quite large and your restricted on your home block

biddy2013

awaywithyou wrote: »

I may have an opportunity to start up a wee herd of my own cows in the near future... On a relatives farm.... He used to milk there upto 8 yrs ago... Buildings are still there but equipment is absent.... Roadways in place.... But land needs to be reseeded... And fenced and water has to b sorted....

Compared to jacks list in last wks journal for new entrants... There isn't a lot to be done to get up and going....

Should A lad go for it....? Considering we have a sizeable herd of cows here that I run with mom and dad... Time would be e biggest issue... But feck it we could work around it!

i mliked 2 seperate farms for a few years it is doable but its hard doing 4 milkings a day when you also have to look after things during the day

alps

rancher wrote: »

Its great to see new entrants can now supply milk without shares/levy to some coops.
They'll have enough to do to finance inside their own farm gate.
Was nearly eaten when I suggested this a year or so ago

Agree with you fully here Rancher. I just can't come to terms with the whole industry allowing a coop put in place an investment plan that is being paid for by farmers out of after tax money.....

milkprofit

awaywithyou wrote: »

I may have an opportunity to start up a wee herd of my own cows in the near future... On a relatives farm.... He used to milk there upto 8 yrs ago... Buildings are still there but equipment is absent.... Roadways in place.... But land needs to be reseeded... And fenced and water has to b sorted....

Compared to jacks list in last wks journal for new entrants... There isn't a lot to be done to get up and going....

Should A lad go for it....? Considering we have a sizeable herd of cows here that I run with mom and dad... Time would be e biggest issue... But feck it we could work around it!

How efficient is home farm