Radiological weapon for Irelands defense

Cork boy 55

Radiological weapon for Irelands defense

Irelands small conventional army cannot maintain the defense in the event of a committed invader
Nuclear weapons are too difficult and costly to acquire and the option of enlarging army either by regular or large reserve is doable but extremely expensive and still against a committed large power offers limited defense

so...

Should Ireland develop a Radiological weapon for Irelands defense
The weapon essentially a localisation doomdays device would active automatically once it has received a list of input criteria and contaminate the country with radiation producing enhanced quantities of radioactive fallout, rendering a large area uninhabitable and deterring any invader.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiological_weapon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salted_bomb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_device
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war)

sawdoubters

http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/radiological%5B1%5D.pdf

sumea0502

ireland will never get attacked by out side forces, there is actually more to be gained (for out side forces) by protecting ireland then butting us over a barrel politically. our politicians are out classed by nearly all other nations.

OS119

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

..The weapon essentially a localisation doomdays device would active automatically once it has received a list of input criteria and contaminate the country with radiation producing enhanced quantities of radioactive fallout, rendering a large area uninhabitable and deterring any invader....

is that not a bit like ensuring you don't get mugged by cutting your own throat?

is having a foreign power occupy Shannon airport, or stealing the gas/oil is really worse than having no agriculture or clean water for the next thousand years?

is buying a defensive capbility that persaudes any potential aggressor that 'its just not worth it' really more expensive than not having any agriculture or clean water for the next thousand years, and having to re-house half the population?

the answer two those questions has got to be a big fat 'no' - Ireland could buy a very prickly defensive capability by taking its defence spending to the european average (in GDP% terms) instead of half that, and if you want to know what a radiological clean-up costs, go to Fukishima - and i promise you that what the Japanese have spent there would buy an air force...

Cork boy 55

The more-accurate analogy would be someone who carries a dirty bomb with him
and a big sign saying so, No mugger would mug someone because doing so would result in all parties being irradiated with cobalt-60.

The point of having a radio-logical doomsday device is you never have to use it.
because who would invade a country wired to irradiate itself in the event of invasion.

Its not quite MAD(mutually assured destruction) deterrence as
NRSCI(national radio-logical suicide in case of Invasion).

deterrence
In foreign affairs, deterrence is a strategy intended to dissuade an adversary from undertaking an action not yet started

Cork boy 55

sawdoubters wrote: »

http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/radiological%5B1%5D.pdf

Whats your point?

OS119

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

...The point of having a radio-logical doomsday device is you never have to use it.
because who would invade a country wired to irradiate itself in the event of invasion.

Its not quite MAD(mutually assured destruction) deterrence as
NRSCI(national radio-logical suicide in case of Invasion).

deterrence
In foreign affairs, deterrence is a strategy intended to dissuade an adversary from undertaking an action not yet started

except of course that for deterance to work, the other side has to believe you'd carry out your threat - and no one is going to believe that Ireland will push a button rendering half the country uninhabitable for a millenia just because someone steals Shannon Airport, or puts troops on the Donegal hills that overlook Derry Airport.

thats the problem - whats the trigger?: one British helicopter getting lost on the Monaghan border? a geographically limited and temporary, but forceful, use of Irish territory? annexation of one county - or three? occupation of a major city? theft of natural resources on the sea bed?

theres too much wiggle room, and everyone else will know it - and because its Ireland that would have to live with the consequences of the use of such a weapon, rather than the other state, not only is the use of such a weapon much less likely, but the other state is going to be much more willing to run such a risk, as for him the only penalty is the loss of men and equipment to some eternal showering and balls that glow in the dark.

Triangla

Basically suggesting destroying the island and the population to stop a change in regime.

What would be the point in that?

We would still have everyday life. Mortgages to pay, kids to feed, rules & laws. Some might even make life better.

Ireland is small therefore it is not suited to any large radius devices.

Irelands best defence is green beret style special forces who can organise and train local paramilitary groups. Guerilla warfare.

Precision strikes to screw up the enemies communications, logistical lines and command structures.

Cork boy 55

OS119 wrote: »

except of course that for deterance to work, the other side has to believe you'd carry out your threat - and no one is going to believe that Ireland will push a button rendering half the country uninhabitable for a millenia just because someone steals Shannon Airport, or puts troops on the Donegal hills that overlook Derry Airport.

thats the problem - whats the trigger?: one British helicopter getting lost on the Monaghan border? a geographically limited and temporary, but forceful, use of Irish territory? annexation of one county - or three? occupation of a major city? theft of natural resources on the sea bed?

theres too much wiggle room, and everyone else will know it - and because its Ireland that would have to live with the consequences of the use of such a weapon, rather than the other state, not only is the use of such a weapon much less likely, but the other state is going to be much more willing to run such a risk, as for him the only penalty is the loss of men and equipment to some eternal showering and balls that glow in the dark.

The doomsday machine is designed to to trigger itself automatically.
The machines super computer will be connected to a network of sensors and will second by second decide whether to trigger based on its programmed algorithm.
The buried bombs are connected to the supercomputer .
A specific and clearly defined set of circumstances as detected by sensors, under which the bombs are to be exploded, are programmed into a tape memory bank.
It is designed to explode if any attempt is ever made to untrigger it
Upon detonation it will realize a cloud of Cobalt thorium G over the entire country destroying all human and animal life and rending country inhabitable for centuries

Also the weapon itself maybe unarmed
but everyone will think it is armed bar an handful of individual at top of state
This secret would have to be guarded well clearly and protocols established
to deal with it. There are animals in the jungle with poison markings that are not poisonous

It is not as crazy as its sounds, Its a serious proposal.
The weapon is so deadly that no one will touch us, a Radiological "scorched earth" policy.
The doomsday scheme will cost us just a fraction of what we' spendi on defense in a single year
Deterrence is the whole idea of this machine. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy, the fear to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision making process which rules out human meddling, the doomsday machine is terrifying. It's simple to understand. And completely credible, and convincing.

Lemming

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

It is not as crazy as its sounds, Its a serious proposal.
The weapon is so deadly that no one will touch us, a Radiological "scorched earth" policy.
The doomsday scheme will cost us just a fraction of what we' spendi on defense in a single year
Deterrence is the whole idea of this machine. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy, the fear to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision making process which rules out human meddling, the doomsday machine is terrifying. It's simple to understand. And completely credible, and convincing.

What exactly would be the deterrence criteria? There is more than one way to topple a country and control it ... Add to that, it becomes a giant single point of weakness if a suitably motivated terrorist wanted to make a statement; gain access and attempt to defuse.

Not to mention the captain obvious downside; for the deterrence to work it would have to be made public. And well, who wants to ask Paddy Powers if they'll take bets on the survival odds of the government that approves & announces such a deterrence. An enemy wouldn't even need to lift a finger; the local population will give them their regime change/armageddon.

AngryHippie

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Also the weapon itself maybe unarmed
but everyone will think it is armed bar an handful of individual at top of state
It is not as crazy as its sounds, Its a serious proposal.
The doomsday scheme will cost us just a fraction of what we' spend on defense in a single year

But the Doomsday scheme has no other benefit, except for reducing the already tiny risk of a tactical/strategic military invasion of the country.

On the other hand, a small well trained military force is an asset that can be deployed for internal security, national disasters or other internal emergencies, can be deployed beyond our borders to assist with humanitarian goals overseas and due to it's small and well trained nature, could be used in the case of an aggressive invasion to train and execute an insurgency that would be a far more effective deterrent than nuking the country.

This tactic might work for Israel or some nation that already has a stockpile of fissile material and is known as being more than happy to use it, but I think everyone knows better about Ireland. we're more like the Afghans than the Israeli's.

It is as crazy as it sounds, and while it might be a serious proposal, the costs and negatives would far outweigh any possible benefit.
It would also cost a hell of a lot more than our defense budget, and would break several nuclear non proliferation articles on it's way.

It is currently even less plausible than an actual invasion.

Lemming

AngryHippie wrote: »

It is as crazy as it sounds, and while it might be a serious proposal, the costs and negatives would far outweigh any possible benefit.
It would also cost a hell of a lot more than our defense budget, and would break several nuclear non proliferation articles on it's way.

Not to mention the salient little point that irradiated matter doesn't stay still. It would spread with the wind & tides; resulting in contamination of Northern Ireland, the UK, and some of Western Europe.

Yeah; that'd win us a lot of friends even announcing such a brain-dead "weapon".

Cork boy 55

Lemming wrote: »

Not to mention the salient little point that irradiated matter doesn't stay still. It would spread with the wind & tides; resulting in contamination of Northern Ireland, the UK, and some of Western Europe.

Yeah; that'd win us a lot of friends even announcing such a brain-dead "weapon".

The Device will be constructed in Ultra secrecy.

The first the world shall know is once its turned on and as explained earlier
once switched on it can be never be turned off.

Your neighbors will then have a vested interests in insuring that the circumstances which would cause the Device to decide to detonate itself never occur thus providing us with a double layer of regional security.

The perfect weapon.

Conmaicne Mara

AngryHippie wrote: »

It is as crazy as it sounds

I never agree with hippies, but this time, the hippie is correct.

Triangla

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

The perfect weapon.

Kills you, everything you own and everyone you know.

Leaves your enemy safe and sound at home.

And you think it's perfect? LOL

meathstevie

I suggest we just step out of the Euro so the ECB doesn't set the rules anymore and we let our bankers work away and within a matter of months the population will have all fled a Somalia like economical situation anyway. Sorted.

Boskowski

Sounds like a great plan. Turn your country into wasteland then nobody will want it. Unfortunately that would include ourselves.

Capt'n Midnight

Why use radiation when we'd have to import most of the raw materials and gamma radiation can be detected by low flying planes even if you use massive amounts of shielding. It's how they prospect for uranium nowadays.

We do have an awful lot of chemical plants / pharma down in Cork so chemical weapons / bio-weapons would be a lot more practical

Chemical Byrne

We should set our women on the invaders, that's a sure fire way to repulse them.