Wheel of Time Question

Thargor

I haven't read any of the Wheel of Time books for some reason even though Ive read basically every other piece of decent fantasy available, would people recommend them nowadays or are they all cheesy cliched "classic" fantasy that would be a bit boring nowadays?

For example I dont think I would recommend Feists Magician series to a friend these days, maybe to a kid just starting out but not to someone who's read a lot of fantasy, its just too cliched for that nowadays. Is WoT the same?

Nody

WoT is worse; first couple of books are good, then it goes downhill, then it goes into "oh lets add books that are utterly useless and does nothing so I can claim having written the longest series" until about book 13... So no; I'd not recommend it.

Thargor

Thats what I was thinking but some people still rave about it, I think Ill skip it.

Reading Codex Alera but its suffering from the same issues so far half way through the second book, black and white good and evil characters and cheesy writing, every single common soldier is "grizzled", every evil character looks at the the good characters with rage and hatred etc etc, Ill stick with it though as I have nothing else. Roll on the Winds of Winter or the next Kingkiller Chronicle...

keane2097

WoT is pretty terrible if you ask me. Even the good ones are only good, not amazing, and there are many thousands of pages of garbage.

Sephiroth_dude

I found them a chore to read if I'm honest.

ixoy

It's a "No" from me. Too much filler, too many pointless characters. There's a decent story in there but it should have been told in 5 books, not 14. It was okay spread over years but I wouldn't think it'd stand up well read back-to-back.
Plenty of more worthy series out there: the Gentlemen Bastards (Scott Lynch), Prince of Nothing / Aspect-Emperor (R. Scott Bakker), the Mistborn Empire (Brandon Sanderson), Robin Hobb's various trilogies, Joe Abercrombie's works, etc. If you've read all those then I imagine there's plenty of new authors appearing in the last while that a few of us have picked up on.

beauf

I read Feists Magician years ago, and never really grabbed me. I think I read 3 of them? I read WOT also years ago, liked it at the time up until about book 6 or 7 after that it was a drag and I gave up at 9 or 10 I think.

Re-reading it at the moment, at book 6, enjoying it thus far. But because I know its gets dull about now, I'm starting to speed read sections, as I know whats worth reading and what isn't. I heard the new books that Brandon Sanderson was involved in got it all back on track and have good reviews, so I'm hoping to just skim the boring bits till I get up to those. Maybe I'll give before then again.

I'd have to agree that the later books had too many characters and too much filler/detail for no reason. Classic failing of many fantasy books/series. Its a pity because there were some good ideas in the WOT.

OwaynOTT

Look it has it faults but it also has it good points.
One thing I think that gets overlooked is how far Jordan got before he lost control of the story but Knife of Dreams hinted that he may have gotten it under control if he had the chance.
Sanderson came in and was a breath fresh air for one book and then totally lost it but then it was an lose lose situation really, for him or anyone.

But if you look at other series like A Song of Ice and Fire, Kingkiller Chronicles and even The Gentleman Bastards series, Jordan got a lot father and packed in some killer stuff before it got bogged down.
George RR Martin's last two efforts are every bit as pointless and a chore as books 8-10 of The Wheel of Time and that's only a few books in. Rothfuss' second book moved the story forward a minuscule fraction. Others like Peter V Brett also suffer from this loss of foucs.
Now they are two of the most acclaimed fantasy series out there at the moment and all ready struggling with their stories and neither of them kept up anything close to the pace Jordan set with his books. An yes writing quickly has it cons, not as well crafted, but the pro of not being left hanging for years is overlooked.
Sure the story is a bit black versus white but there are attempts at introducing a bit of gray, with the whitecloaks and the general pettiness of most major rulers in Randland. It might not be as gritty as the likes of Abercrombie, Lawerence or GRRM but not every series needs to have cursing and unexpected deaths.
Its almost cool to bash WoT (not claiming that is being done here) at times but a lot of its flaws are present in other books as well and it has flaws that aren't present elsewhere or as obvious but a lot of the modern fantasy books owe a lot to Jordan's WoT books. If not only for pointing out how not to do some things.
Mark Lawerence's Broken Kingdoms series is notably for telling its story with some very hort books and that is admirable an effective but Jordan was a victim of the time where fantasy books had to be big massive door-stoppers.
One tip that will make the books a more pleasurable read, is to skip any of the Aes Sedai chapters, paragraphs and also Perrin's in books 8-10. And maybe the whole of Crossraods of Twilight. Do that and the issues of bloat tends to be dramatically reduced. Any mention of skirt straightening, braid tugging, men, dealing with women or general scowling. pour yourself a shot and away you go.

However, I think you have to read the WoT books as one of your first forays into the fantasy genre as it is a bit outdated and young adultish and light. I think the likes of Bakker, Erikson, Morgan et al make it difficult to appreciate the simpler pleasures of WoT.


Bit of a ramble there, Phaw! there's a point in there somewhere.
WoT can be terrible but can be great but doesn't desire the criticism when the likes of Feist can get away with even lighter crap and basically regurgitating the same stuff over and over for years. brooks too.

beauf

Agree with a lot if that. Game of thrones falls into the same flaw of too many characters and losing focus in the later books.

Nody

beauf wrote: »

Agree with a lot if that. Game of thrones falls into the same flaw of too many characters and losing focus in the later books.

At least when a character die in Game of Thrones they don't come back as a different character with a different gender spending half the time being frustrated about their new body...

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Nody wrote: »

At least when a character die in Game of Thrones they don't come back as a different character with a different gender spending half the time being frustrated about their new body...

im still kind of upset

taimandred

wasn't a thing. spent many many hours arguing on internet forums about that when I was younger.

Zubeneschamali

Thargor wrote: »

would people recommend them nowadays or are they all cheesy cliched "classic" fantasy that would be a bit boring nowadays?

The series starts out as a straight Tolkien rip-off, Jordan openly admitted he deliberately used a setting which would be familiar to all fantasy readers:

In the first chapters of The Eye of the World, I tried for a Tolkienesque feel without trying to copy Tolkien’s style, but that was by way of saying to the reader, okay, this is familiar, this is something you recognize, now let’s go where you haven’t been before.

It gets a little interesting for the following two books. You can see that there's a trapdoor in Book 3 where it could have ended if sales weren't good, but it was doing OK, so Jordan just stretched it out further and further, with less and less happening per volume. I gave up when he started resurrecting the bad guys defeated earlier and undoing the progress made up to that point.

beauf

Nody wrote: »

At least when a character die in Game of Thrones they don't come back as a different character with a different gender spending half the time being frustrated about their new body...

i can image the shagging that would have led to in GOT. Mrs Doyle would have a field day with that....

keane2097

Other books can be **** too is actually probably the best argument I've heard for reading WoT tbh.

For what it's worth I packed in Game of Thrones after the first book because I thought it was pretty crap, packed in Locke Lomora half way through the second book because it was grinding to a halt. You don't have to read 14 books just because they're there. The first Locke Lomora book was great and I enjoyed it hugely, you don't have to self-flagellate with the rest of the series if you don't think they're any good just because you enjoyed the first one.

youcancallmeal

Great question OP. I've nearly finished GOT series and The Dark Tower series. Reading one and listening to the other. Think I might start listening to Wheel of Time on my commute. I'm fairly disappointed in the Dark Tower series so far (Half way through final book) but so glad I listened to it as opposed to reading as it would of taken me much longer!

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I'd be another who wasn't too impressed by it. It is completely bloated and bumbles along for the guts of 10 books. Really wish his editor had told him to get ****ed. O well.

ixoy

OwaynOTT wrote: »

George RR Martin's last two efforts are every bit as pointless and a chore as books 8-10 of The Wheel of Time and that's only a few books in.

Don't think they're as slow as Books 8-10 but I'll agree that "A Feast for Crows" and "Dance of Dragons" isn't promising. I can definitely see it being bogged down and it'd be down to GRRM being a "gardener" and not having a proper plot set out.

Rothfuss' second book moved the story forward a minuscule fraction.

I wouldn't agree though on the Kingkiller Chronicles purely on the basis Rothfuss had said it's a trilogy and has confirmed this again (although, somewhat sneakily, there's a suspicion that he's got a workaround for that).

It might not be as gritty as the likes of Abercrombie, Lawerence or GRRM but not every series needs to have cursing and unexpected deaths.

Agreed on this - I still found Feist's work a guilty treat and they're very straight forward. Same for Robin Hobb as well.

Jordan was a victim of the time where fantasy books had to be big massive door-stoppers.

I'd have thought it was Jordan who made fantasy books into door-stoppers. He began the trend surely? Previous fantasy series - Shannara, Magician, Thomas Covenant - were nowhere as big. It's Jordan's fault...

beauf

I assume you mean a longer series. I thought the Thomas Covenant were bigger volumes though. Looking on Amazon you get different pages numbers so can't directly compare them. Maybe I'm wrong.

Nody

beauf wrote: »

I assume you mean a longer series. I thought the Thomas Covenant were bigger volumes though. Looking on Amazon you get different pages numbers so can't directly compare them. Maybe I'm wrong.

Two trilogies; I'd say around 1 to 1.4k pages per trilogy depending on book size.

ciaranmac

I started reading WoT in the late 90s and got to the point where I was staring at book 10 unread on the shelf for years, having hit the wall and given up after book 9. Glad I got stuck back in though, the series picks up again and it's definitely worth the read. Book 13 especially is the most EPIC thing I've read in my life.

Though clearly having his wife as his editor didn't help keeping the word count down. She should have gone at the dresses and braids with a good pair of shears.