Increasing no. of lambs / ewe

Username John

Hello all.

I was going to post this in the best maternal breed thread, but i said I would put it into a new thread...

At present I keep all suffolks mainly, and I find them ok. I like the fact they are a but quiet / dopey.
I don't generally have a problem with dopey / slow lambs thankfully (I did one year from one ram, and he got the road)
Their feet are fairly ok (I have the odd one, but trying to cull problems out)
As regards handling at lambing, I would say the issues I have are related to big singles... But the ram has a big impact here as well...

So overall - I like the ewes I have... But...

My big issue is low birth rate. This year, it was 1.5 scan rate.
It's too low. What can I do to increase this?

I only have a small flock, but I'd like to breed my own replacements. For interest as much as anything...

So what ram should I get to put with some of them next year?
OR
should I just admit I have bad breeding (we have had suffolks for as long as I can remember, so maybe they are gone too far down that road?)
Should I just look to buying replacement ewe lambs from an external source?

Maybe trying to breed my own replacements is not the best idea, when I have so few? And I should just concentrate on producing fat lambs?

Sorry - bit of all over the place post, but trying to weigh up what direction I should be going in...

Thoughts?

AnFeirmeoir

Getting the ewes in top condition and flushing them has more impact than breed.

Changing breed will take time to have an impact but you could pick a llen or Belclare ram for next year.
I was in the very same situation as you 4 years ago and introduceing Belclare then payed off last year.

rancher

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

Getting the ewes in top condition and flushing them has more impact than breed.

Changing breed will take time to have an impact but you could pick a llen or Belclare ram for next year.
I was in the very same situation as you 4 years ago and introduceing Belclare then payed off last year.

Anyone doing a good job with belclare are getting serious litter size, a neighbour regularily get 2.25 lambs/ewe and could have to rear any where around 120 pets in 600 ewes.

Username John

What are the down sides with Belclare?

I assume there are some - in that you don't get a very prolific ewe without losing something else?

rancher

Username John wrote: »

What are the down sides with Belclare?

I assume there are some - in that you don't get a very prolific ewe without losing something else?

Conformation and triplets

Username John

rancher wrote: »

Conformation and triplets

Hmmm, triplets I can live with (can't give out about low scan rate and also say I don't wan triplets )

Conformation - so the ram lambs won't be so good. I could live with that I think (to an extent)

Can someone comment (rancher? ) on Lleyn vs Belclare?

Thanks.

rancher

Username John wrote: »

Hmmm, triplets I can live with (can't give out about low scan rate and also say I don't wan triplets )

Conformation - so the ram lambs won't be so good. I could live with that I think (to an extent)

Can someone comment (rancher? ) on Lleyn vs Belclare?

Thanks.

lleyn have improved the litter size in my flock, but texel would naturally have a low litter size and the texel improve the conformation in the Lleyn, Lleyns wouldn't have the potential litter size of the belclare which is the main reason that I didn't go belclare, I don't want a 2.25 litter average. A lot of belclares will rare triplets if they are well fed.
Lleyns are hardy but they mature early, so I find it best to castrate at birth

eire23

Username John wrote: »

Hmmm, triplets I can live with (can't give out about low scan rate and also say I don't wan triplets )

Conformation - so the ram lambs won't be so good. I could live with that I think (to an extent)

Can someone comment (rancher? ) on Lleyn vs Belclare?

Thanks.

My father used to have belclares here years ago, he found them good hardy sheep and they used to have a massive scan rate but in the end there was just to many triplets and he didnt want the hassle.
Got into lleyns myself two years ago, flushed them the first year (big mistake) and ended up with a scan rate of 2.4! Didnt flush them this year and got 2.1 which i am happy enough but hopefully in the future will get it down to 2 or 1.9.
Their hardy although no more so than belclares i think. Confirmation wise they would probably be better than the belcare , but i think a lot of it has to do with the ram you pick.

razor8

Had belclares here many years ago and always felt the ewes weren't great milkers and lambs were around too long especially on a bad year

Saying that I've seen a few impressive rams around lately but haven't been tempted yet, have they improved a lot over the last few years?

AnFeirmeoir

Username John wrote: »

What are the down sides with Belclare?

I assume there are some - in that you don't get a very prolific ewe without losing something else?

Downsides
Lamb conformation. It's not that bad but I think you need a bit of terminal breed in the mix.
Ewes don't see as strong as the suffolks. Verdict out on the milk. My Belclare ewes are young and last year was tough weatherise so I won't condemn them yet.

eire23

Just a few pics of some ram lambs that i had this year to give you a idea of what their like. Found them easy fattened i was suprised at how well they did. Should be even better of suffolk cross ewes. Of the ones i killed half graded u's and the rest r's.
http://imageshack.com/a/img199/9099/qh1j.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img607/2376/da6i.jpg

And the father of the above lambs.
http://imageshack.com/a/img534/4228/loz4.jpg

sea12

Fine sheep eire. You must be close to the coast are you. Is that teh sea in the back ground?

Do you show the sheep as shows yourself.

Username John

eire23 wrote: »

Just a few pics of some ram lambs that i had this year to give you a idea of what their like. Found them easy fattened i was suprised at how well they did. Should be even better of suffolk cross ewes. Of the ones i killed half graded u's and the rest r's.
http://imageshack.com/a/img199/9099/qh1j.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img607/2376/da6i.jpg

And the father of the above lambs.
http://imageshack.com/a/img534/4228/loz4.jpg

Lovely sheep all right, that ram is a fine sheep, heavier looking than I would have expected somehow... Thanks for those pics Eire.

eire23

sea12 wrote: »

Fine sheep eire. You must be close to the coast are you. Is that teh sea in the back ground?

Do you show the sheep as shows yourself.

Thanks sea, yes im beside the sea and mountain! Yeah showed them myself last year for the first time. Tis good craic and a learning experience.

Username John wrote: »

Lovely sheep all right, that ram is a fine sheep, heavier looking than I would have expected somehow... Thanks for those pics Eire.

Cheers john, just gives ya an idea of the type of lamb ya can get. That ram is 3 years old now Delighted wit how he turned out to be honest. Hopefully he will be around for another few years yet.

dave747

eire23 wrote: »

Just a few pics of some ram lambs that i had this year to give you a idea of what their like. Found them easy fattened i was suprised at how well they did. Should be even better of suffolk cross ewes. Of the ones i killed half graded u's and the rest r's.
http://imageshack.com/a/img199/9099/qh1j.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img607/2376/da6i.jpg

And the father of the above lambs.
http://imageshack.com/a/img534/4228/loz4.jpg

Fine rams, uncle breeds them aswell,do you find much of a demand for the ram lambs?

eire23

dave747 wrote: »

Fine rams, uncle breeds them aswell,do you find much of a demand for the ram lambs?

I dont really know dave but wouldnt expect so, killed all mine bar four and three of them were sold without advertising and kept the fourth on for a hogget. If they all had ewe lambs id be happier!

Lano Lynn

eire23 wrote: »

Just a few pics of some ram lambs that i had this year to give you a idea of what their like. Found them easy fattened i was suprised at how well they did. Should be even better of suffolk cross ewes. Of the ones i killed half graded u's and the rest r's.
http://imageshack.com/a/img199/9099/qh1j.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img607/2376/da6i.jpg

And the father of the above lambs.
http://imageshack.com/a/img534/4228/loz4.jpg

great looking rams.nothing like them at tullamore SI sale this year

eire23

Lano Lynn wrote: »

great looking rams.nothing like them at tullamore SI sale this year

Thanks lano, wasnt at tullamore last year although had intended to go for the look. Have to buy a ram this year for stap so will probably go there this year.

Green farmer

I'm planning on introducing a belclare ram to my flock this season to breed replacements as well. Maybe when you mix the belclare ram with Suffolk ewes it might balance each other out and give you a scanning of around 2.0
Also grass quality is something that can be overlooked. As already mentioned flushing might be the answer to increasing lambing percentage

Insp. Harry Callahan

We have always had some sheep ,I wouldn't claim to be an expert or anything, our scanning results would normally be around 200%, we keep suffock, texal and some charlois ewes and rams.
Keep all our own replacements, would try and select good ewe lambs for retaining,no short butty ones, from doubles ideally but not exclusively.

Had a belclare ram here about 15 years ago for a few years,kept the ewe lambs from him for breeding.
had a serious amount of 3s and some quads, was bit of a disaster, found the ewes to be very wild and quite small. Sold them out, haven't had one since.

I would try and get the ewes always in good shape for tupping, in nice condition, and flush a bit if possible. I give them all a good mineral dose and also leave a mineral bucket in with them and wouldn't move them or round them up til at least a month after.

I put half the ewe lambs to the ram, the biggest ones. These usally scan half double half single. Used to buy in replacements, started having bother with abortion etc, stopped 15 years ago and never had any problems since.
All the best Op, maybe ear tag your females from your doubles and select the best of these for breeding?. I would always cross over the breeds at tupping time, wouldn't put suffock ram to suffock ewe etc.

AnFeirmeoir

Insp. Harry Callahan wrote: »

We have always had some sheep ,I wouldn't claim to be an expert or anything, our scanning results would normally be around 200%, we keep suffock, texal and some charlois ewes and rams.
Keep all our own replacements, would try and select good ewe lambs for retaining,no short butty ones, from doubles ideally but not exclusively.

Had a belclare ram here about 15 years ago for a few years,kept the ewe lambs from him for breeding.
had a serious amount of 3s and some quads, was bit of a disaster, found the ewes to be very wild and quite small. Sold them out, haven't had one since.

I would try and get the ewes always in good shape for tupping, in nice condition, and flush a bit if possible. I give them all a good mineral dose and also leave a mineral bucket in with them and wouldn't move them or round them up til at least a month after.

I put half the ewe lambs to the ram, the biggest ones. These usally scan half double half single. Used to buy in replacements, started having bother with abortion etc, stopped 15 years ago and never had any problems since.
All the best Op, maybe ear tag your females from your doubles and select the best of these for breeding?. I would always cross over the breeds at tupping time, wouldn't put suffock ram to suffock ewe etc.

I think the Belclare of 15 years ago were a completely different sheep than today. They've added much more texel to the mix since then.
Whatevever your doing .keep at it. 200% is ideal .