A few questions about commercial tax on a van?

WellKiiid??

I know this sort of thing has been asked a million times on this but what the hell!

Im confused reading all the stuff about it and have a few questions!

I have tools and i do jobs for people!! I probably shouldn't as i dont pay tax for it but sure what the hell!! It pays for college!!

At the moment i have a passat and its very awkward bringing things around in it so i need a van!! I will be keeping the passat as its my baby

Im hoping to get money together to go abroad to work so i would be using the van to work for a year or that after i leave college in april!!

Im wondering if i can get commercial tax if i bought a van? Im not registered for vat and i don't own a business!! Getting a vat number seems very daunting and probably wouldnt be worth my while because i wouldnt be earning that much!!

Also, could i buy a van with a years commercial tax on it and sell it when the year is up?

Thanks for your help!

ubs69

I. Don't see why not loads of fellas doin it ,not to mention the <snip> ,if you find a van you like you could get the owner to tax it for the year as part of the deal

Bpmull

By right you should have a vat number to tax it. Now you could walk into tax office a and they might tax it no problem once you have a cvrt cert. but equally you could walk into tax office b and they might say not a hope and want you to get x,y,z. You could just tax it privately depending on what van your looking at it mightened be that much more.

Also bear in mind the van has to get a commerical vehicle road worthiness test (used to be doe) every year and there getting strict on that. It cost almost 120 euro and the van would want to be mechanically good to pass as strict as the nct where as the old doe wasn't.

corktina

You have to declare you will only use it for commercial purposes.

aujopimur

No need for a VAT no,.If it's business use you pay comm. rate, if not suck up and pay private rate.

Theanswers

Use your PPS Number, no bother.

jimmy2pens

I have taxed a van commercially for the last ten years, not a problem, and have never been asked any questions. I do not have a vat number or business.

corktina

but now the first time you tax it you have to sign a declaration.

jimmy2pens

corktina wrote: »

but now the first time you tax it you have to sign a declaration.

Must check this out, as I intend changing the van soon!

Smokie399

To the best of my knowledge you don't have to be registered for vat or have a vat number even if you do have a legitimate small business. So I can't see why they would request a vat number to be honest. They may ask you for a tax clearance cert to prove that your in business but again that doesn't prove anything because as far as I know anyone can get a tax clearance cert even if they don't have a business as essentially that's all it is. It's a document to say that your taxes are paid up to date. Your PPS number is the same as your would be VAT number in most cases. If you have a goods declaration form signed from Garda st and put your PPS number on the form I can't see why they won't tax it. It's all a bluff and a deterrent to stop people who aren't genuinely in business from taxing a van at the cheaper rate. Most insurance company's WILL NOT insure a commercial vehicle (van) with a private policy so you can't privately tax a van with a commercial insurance policy. This is the way it's been for the last 12 months unless it has changed again since January

corktina

they will tax it so long as you have declared you will only use it commercially. No problem

Smokie399

corktina wrote: »

they will tax it so long as you have declared you will only use it commercially. No problem

Is that guaranteed though I wonder. I'm only going on past expierience. From what I gather things seem to have changed since dec/jan and they don't want to tax commercially unless you can prove you're really in business. I don't know though cos my vans been in my name for the last 2 years

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

but now the first time you tax it you have to sign a declaration.

Nothing new about that. You always had to sign the declaration
The new part I of the RF 111a is a declaration that the business is registered for tax purposes
Link
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/menu.do?page=offline

corktina

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Nothing new about that. You always had to sign the declaration
The new part I of the RF 111a is a declaration that the business is registered for tax purposes
Link
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/menu.do?page=offline

your link died

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

your link died

It did indeed. Typical of these state agencies.:mad:
Just click on forms and then rf111a

K.Flyer

Smokie399 wrote: »

Is that guaranteed though I wonder. I'm only going on past expierience. From what I gather things seem to have changed since dec/jan and they don't want to tax commercially unless you can prove you're really in business. I don't know though cos my vans been in my name for the last 2 years

I taxed my van last week, no questions asked whatsoever about usage or business details. Its a Transit registered in my name not my business name and I just gave the reminder in with the new doe cert and paid. Now that I remember I was in such a hurry I never even filled out the insurance details or signed the form when handing it in.
Yet I have heard of some people having a hard time doing the same thing.
Regarding the O.P.'s question, I think his first concern should be how he insures the van, having incorrect insurance will land you in more trouble in the event of an incident than the wrong tax.

corktina

yep, it's not the first time you taxed it is it? You got a reminder.

Smokie399

corktina wrote: »

yep, it's not the first time you taxed it is it? You got a reminder.

Ya I think it's only when you change your van and try taxing it for the first time it gets complicated

K.Flyer

corktina wrote: »

yep, it's not the first time you taxed it is it? You got a reminder.

I remember a year or so ago even people with reminders were getting big hassle renewing tax on commercials.

I thinks it does come down to the person you get on the counter on the day.

timmy4u2

K.Flyer wrote: »

I remember a year or so ago even people with reminders were getting big hassle renewing tax on commercials.

I thinks it does come down to the person you get on the counter on the day.

It comes down to the law on the matter. If the clerk behind the counter does not apply the law, thats where the difference lies.
With vehicles from 2008 on it is very often cheaper to tax on the Co2 emissions now, than on the sub 3500kg commercial rate of €330.00; especially when coupled with twice the cost to test a commercial

Smokie399

K.Flyer wrote: »

I remember a year or so ago even people with reminders were getting big hassle renewing tax on commercials.

I thinks it does come down to the person you get on the counter on the day.

I think Your rite. There's a fella in my local motor tax office and if motor tax was a sinking ship he'd go down with it to get the last penny he could from you lol nothing is ever rite for him
Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Apologies if I offend anyone lol

And as for it working out cheaper to tax an 08 is fine but that doesn't do the other how ever many thousand vans that are on the road under 2008. The fact of the matter is that motor tax is badly set up in this country anyway. I know it's a bit off topic but taxing any car under 08 is an extortionate amount of money. It should be more like England where motor tax is much cheaper and can be done at any local post office.

timmy4u2

Smokie399 wrote: »

I think Your rite. There's a fella in my local motor tax office and if motor tax was a sinking ship he'd go down with it to get the last penny he could from you lol nothing is ever rite for him
Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Apologies if I offend anyone lol

And as for it working out cheaper to tax an 08 is fine but that doesn't do the other how ever many thousand vans that are on the road under 2008. The fact of the matter is that motor tax is badly set up in this country anyway. I know it's a bit off topic but taxing any car under 08 is an extortionate amount of money. It should be more like England where motor tax is much cheaper and can be done at any local post office.

Some motor tax in the UK has risen considerably as with high co2 emission cars.
As regards pre and post 2008 taxing some cars in fact can be cheaper to tax on the old system. Take for instance a 1.4 Ford Focus.€570 at 157 co as opposed to €385 taxing on CC
Between January and June 08 you have the choice of taxing under either system

Smokie399

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Some motor tax in the UK has risen considerably as with high co2 emission cars.
As regards pre and post 2008 taxing some cars in fact can be cheaper to tax on the old system. Take for instance a 1.4 Ford Focus.€570 at 157 co as opposed to €385 taxing on CC
Between January and June 08 you have the choice of taxing under either system

There's nothing cheap about taxing a pre 08 car here in Ireland I can't agree on that. It's robbery and there's no comparison to uk on some vehicles. Most diesel cars up to 06/07 were 2 litre diesel and diesel were most popular. If you take for example an 03 peugeot 406 2.0 hdi with Co2 emmisions (149kg/km) the current tax rate here in Ireland to tax such a vehicle for a year is over €700 and the exact same car in England can be taxed for the year for £140. Yes £140 vs €700 surely you can't possibly think that that's value for money lol

timmy4u2

Take for instance a 1.4 Ford Focus.€570 at 157 co as opposed to €385 taxing on CC

That is almost €200 cheaper under the old system

=Smokie399;88793361]There's nothing cheap about taxing a pre 08 car here in Ireland I can't agree on that. It's robbery and there's no comparison to uk on some vehicles. Most diesel cars up to 06/07 were 2 litre diesel and diesel were most popular. If you take for example an 03 peugeot 406 2.0 hdi with Co2 emmisions (149kg/km) the current tax rate here in Ireland to tax such a vehicle for a year is over €700 and the exact same car in England can be taxed for the year for £140. Yes £140 vs €700 surely you can't possibly think that that's value for money lol

I did not say that there are not savings to be made.
Did you not read the part of my post where I outlined the difference in taxing a 1.4 Ford Focus.
And I do agree that the huge difference in price that those who cannot afford to upgrade to the post 2008 is a disgrace.

cabb8ge

2014 to see clampdown on inappropriate use and declaration of commercial tax nationwide, Dublin behind at moment, crewcab particular target, millions to be raised through this.

timmy4u2

Smokie399 wrote: »

There's nothing cheap about taxing a pre 08 car here in Ireland I can't agree on that. It's robbery and there's no comparison to uk on some vehicles. Most diesel cars up to 06/07 were 2 litre diesel and diesel were most popular. If you take for example an 03 peugeot 406 2.0 hdi with Co2 emmisions (149kg/km) the current tax rate here in Ireland to tax such a vehicle for a year is over €700 and the exact same car in England can be taxed for the year for £140. Yes £140 vs €700 surely you can't possibly think that that's value for money lol

cabb8ge wrote: »

2014 to see clampdown on inappropriate use and declaration of commercial tax nationwide, Dublin behind at moment, crewcab particular target, millions to be raised through this.

Again it must be down to clerks not applying the law on the matter as there is plenty of legislation in place to regulate the taxing of crewcabs

Theanswers

cabb8ge wrote: »

2014 to see clampdown on inappropriate use and declaration of commercial tax nationwide, Dublin behind at moment, crewcab particular target, millions to be raised through this.

It will never work. I can tell you that for nothing.

Smokie399

Quote: cabb8ge
2014 to see clampdown on inappropriate use and declaration of commercial tax nationwide, Dublin behind at moment, crewcab particular target, millions to be raised through this.

That means millions to be fleeced off of people through this. Commercial tax is too expensive in Ireland as it is. And they think there not making enough out of people so they bring out this revised goods declaration form and for you to sign and say you'll never use your commercial use. Everybody that has a commercial vehicle uses it for private use at some stage or another

Smokie399

Theanswers wrote: »

It will never work. I can tell you that for nothing.

It will and it'll work because we the Irish people can't stand up for ourselfs and say we've had enough of austerity and huge tax rates

corktina

I'd rather see everyone paying their dues rather than the rest of us paying more. I support enforcement against anyone dodging their share of taxes..I believe this will result in me paying less than might otherwise have to

cabb8ge

The clampdown is on people using vehicle private with no commercial use at commercial rates, if you have no crew for transport to and from sites your crewcab should be taxed privately or else you get appropriate vehicle on commercial tax.

Smokie399

corktina wrote: »

I'd rather see everyone paying their dues rather than the rest of us paying more. I support enforcement against anyone dodging their share of taxes..I believe this will result in me paying less than might otherwise have to

Does that mean you agree or dissagree with the fact they want anyone owning a van to tax them privately ?

Smokie399

cabb8ge wrote: »

The clampdown is on people using vehicle private with no commercial use at commercial rates, if you have no crew for transport to and from sites your crewcab should be taxed privately or else you get appropriate vehicle on commercial tax.

Yes but aside from that cos I agree that people abuse the commercial tax but now when you have to tax a new van your required to fill up form rf111a in the presence of a Garda. That's fair enough but the form is wrong and it's worded unfairly. Your asked to sign and declare that under any circumstance you will never use the van for private purposes and if you do your subject to private tax rates. Nobody that owns a commercial vehicle can say they've never used it for private use. Remember going to the shop for a litre of milk and taking the van is considered private use. In other words on your way home from work if the wife asks for bread or milk you should pass out the shop on your way home and go back to the shop in your car as using the van to do it would be private use. It's lucky that the Gards don't enforce that kinda nonsense

corktina

Smokie399 wrote: »

Does that mean you agree or dissagree with the fact they want anyone owning a van to tax them privately ?

that means all vans not used solely for commercial purposes should be taxed privately. That's what the law says. It's a concession to help business, not to subsidise peoples transport unfairly.

timmy4u2

Smokie399 wrote: »

Quote: cabb8ge
2014 to see clampdown on inappropriate use and declaration of commercial tax nationwide, Dublin behind at moment, crewcab particular target, millions to be raised through this.

That means millions to be fleeced off of people through this. Commercial tax is too expensive in Ireland as it is. And they think there not making enough out of people so they bring out this revised goods declaration form and for you to sign and say you'll never use your commercial use. Everybody that has a commercial vehicle uses it for private use at some stage or another

This is not new and "they" did not introduce it. It has been there for many years.

Its their new form RF 111a where they have gone a stage further and interpreted Article 3 of The Road Vehicles Reg & Lic Regulations 1992 and took it a stage further to mean that you have to declare your business tax details.

Furthermore. In law it was never correct for goods vehicles to be used for social domestic and pleasure purposes.
If this practise was not going on wholesale the status quo may not have been changed as it now is

George Dalton

timmy4u2 wrote: »

With vehicles from 2008 on it is very often cheaper to tax on the Co2 emissions now, than on the sub 3500kg commercial rate of €330.00; especially when coupled with twice the cost to test a commercial

There are two points to note here.

Firstly it isn't possible to tax a commercial on basis of CO2. If you cannot satisfy your local motor tax office's requirements for taxing at the commercial rate then you are stuck with paying the CC rate, regardless of the year of registration of the van.

Secondly, even privately taxed commercials are still subject to the CVRT test at an annual cost of roughly twice that of the NCT.

Smokie399

George Dalton wrote: »

There are two points to note here.

Firstly it isn't possible to tax a commercial on basis of CO2. If you cannot satisfy your local motor tax office's requirements for taxing at the commercial rate then you are stuck with paying the CC rate, regardless of the year of registration of the van.

Secondly, even privately taxed commercials are still subject to the CVRT test at an annual cost of roughly twice that of the NCT.

Exactly so the van is insured commercially tested commercially but yet they expect you to tax it private if you can't prove you have a business. In a way they're breaking there own law

corktina

or..it's not insured as a car because it isn't one and it isn't tested as a car as it isn't one and you have to tax it as a car if you want to use it as one.

timmy4u2

George Dalton wrote: »

There are two points to note here.

Firstly it isn't possible to tax a commercial on basis of CO2. If you cannot satisfy your local motor tax office's requirements for taxing at the commercial rate then you are stuck with paying the CC rate, regardless of the year of registration of the van.

Secondly, even privately taxed commercials are still subject to the CVRT test at an annual cost of roughly twice that of the NCT.

Perhaps I did not spell it out clearly.
I was not suggesting what you took up at all.

I used the terminology' vehicle' as in an estate or a hatchback rather than referring to a sub 3500kg van.

That way you have a dual vehicle. A vehicle capable of carrying your goods and a vehicle that you can legally use for you social domestic and pleasure purposes while enjoying a lower tax rate and a lower test rate as in an NCT, plus the added bonus of a two year test up to ten years of age.
This will also do away with those who are happy to claim back the tax on their commercial vehicle and fuel but expect to use their commercially taxed van for their soc, dom & pleasure purposes.


Thought that was clear

K.Flyer

I dont think they are after the Commercial Van driver who drops their child off to school on the way to work, I would say its more the crew cab 4x4 which they are going to clamp down on.
In saying that, if your "commercial" vehicle was to have sign writing and the words "24 emergency service" meaning you were always "on call" and need to go at a moments notice where would the line be drawn if at that particular moment when you are stopped by a Garda you were not engaged in a work duty.

timmy4u2

K.Flyer wrote: »

I dont think they are after the Commercial Van driver who drops their child off to school on the way to work, I would say its more the crew cab 4x4 which they are going to clamp down on.
In saying that, if your "commercial" vehicle was to have sign writing and the words "24 emergency service" meaning you were always "on call" and need to go at a moments notice where would the line be drawn if at that particular moment you were not engaged in a work duty.

Very true and you will not be targeted if you pick up the milk from the shop on your way home as suggested elsewhere.
Common sense will prevail.
Its the guys getting the benefit of claiming vat back on their van or crewcab and their diesel and then using it for everything outside of business purposes that killed the goose.

There was no complaining not too many years ago when commercial tax was very very cheap but now that the system has favoured the private car through a co basis swords are drawn.

Its difficult for a lot of people who need a commercial vehicle for work to also run a private car and perhaps there should be a system whereby on payment of a higher tax rate it . Would be allowed as a dual purpose vehicle.
This would apply only to a crew cab where a family is concerned as insurance companies will only cover as many passengers as there is seating for.

corktina

Well, it probably isn't legal to carry small children in the van without suitable seats anyway. Van drivers as always will use the van for other purposes no doubt, but hopefully they would be bright enough to keep some tools or parcels in the backs o they could claim to be off to a job, and in the evenings when they are most likely to get a pull, they will have to remember to say they are "on call"

corktina

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Very true and you will not be targeted if you pick up the milk from the shop on your way home as suggested elsewhere.
Common sense will prevail.
Its the guys getting the benefit of claiming vat back on their van or crewcab and their diesel and then using it for everything outside of business purposes that killed the goose.

There was no complaining not too many years ago when commercial tax was very very cheap but now that the system has favoured the private car through a co basis swords are drawn.

Its difficult for a lot of people who need a commercial vehicle for work to also run a private car and perhaps there should be a system whereby on payment of a higher tax rate it . Would be allowed as a dual purpose vehicle.
This would apply only to a crew cab where a family is concerned as insurance companies will only cover as many passengers as there is seating for.

yep and all thos 4x4 s which are effectively 2 seater luxury cars and don't get used for business at all. (The loading bays in Cork are packed with them everyday , making life difficult for genuine deliveries.

timmy4u2

corktina wrote: »

Well, it probably isn't legal to carry small children in the van without suitable seats anyway. Van drivers as always will use the van for other purposes no doubt, but hopefully they would be bright enough to keep some tools or parcels in the backs o they could claim to be off to a job, and in the evenings when they are most likely to get a pull, they will have to remember to say they are "on call"

The only issue re passengers is an insurance issue and the insurance companies will cover passengers, children or adults, if proper seats are available.

Smokie399

timmy4u2 wrote: »

This is not new and "they" did not introduce it. It has been there for many years.

Its their new form RF 111a where they have gone a stage further and interpreted Article 3 of The Road Vehicles Reg & Lic Regulations 1992 and took it a stage further to mean that you have to declare your business tax details.

Furthermore. In law it was never correct for goods vehicles to be used for social domestic and pleasure purposes.
If this practise was not going on wholesale the status quo may not have been changed as it now is

Perhaps I wasn't clear as I thought in my previous post I said REVISED goods declaration form and your correct the new form is rf111a and in case U didn't know the old form was RF110 and THEY if you want to be correct abt it since you kindly pointed out were the Green Party just before they were obliterated in the elections were the people who went the stage further.

And further more if the rate of tax of private motor tax wasn't so extortionate in this country then taxing vehicles commercially wouldn't be happening wholesale as you've put it .{/quote}

SharonLynch007

I was in the Dublin Motor Tax Office today 17th Feb, to tax a van that is used commercially & insured commercially.

I just bought the van last week & this is the first time I am taxing it in my name. I did have the motor tax renewal form but it was in the former owners name.

I have to complete RF111A confirming it will only be used in the course of my business/trade & will not be used for social or domestic purposes. I need to give my income tax registration number & get the local garda to stamp the form.

Smokie399

SharonLynch007 wrote: »

I was in the Dublin Motor Tax Office today 17th Feb, to tax a van that is used commercially & insured commercially.

I just bought the van last week & this is the first time I am taxing it in my name. I did have the motor tax renewal form but it was in the former owners name.

I have to complete RF111A confirming it will only be used in the course of my business/trade & will not be used for social or domestic purposes. I need to give my income tax registration number & get the local garda to stamp the form.

That's interesting. Did they ask you to prove that your business or you are registered with the revenue for paying tax. That's what there looking for down here in Kerry and they won't tax any commercial vehicle without it

SharonLynch007

I think once the form is stamped by the Guards it will be taxed.

To be in business you dont have to register for VAT (income tresholds apply) or have a Company set up. You can be a sole trader & therefore just use your PPS number on the form.

Smokie399

SharonLynch007 wrote: »

I think once the form is stamped by the Guards it will be taxed.

To be in business you dont have to register for VAT (income tresholds apply) or have a Company set up. You can be a sole trader & therefore just use your PPS number on the form.

I'm aware of that I think the vat threshold is 37500 but even to be a sole trader you should still pay tax on your earnings.
The motor tax office here in Kerry are refusing to tax any commercial vehicle without proof that you or your business is registered for paying tax. But theoretically almost everybody pays tax even people that have a job. Therefor a P60 should be good enough proof that you pay tax and if you provide a P60 then they shouldn't refuse to tax it. I wonder do you have to tax a vehicle in the county you live in or can you tax it in any county in the republic ?

SharonLynch007

Ah but if you are a sole trader earning small money (I think its 20k but let's say 10k to be on the safe side) you will not be required to pay tax because it is below the income tresholds for taxation.

Also you could have a paye job & a second job where you need a commercial vehicle & therefore you would pay tax on all your income using your PPS number.