Low salary / no payrise in two years in job

LegacyUser

Hi,

I'm getting very frustrated with my career (or lack thereof) at the moment and I'm hoping for some opinions or advice as I don't know what to do.

I've been in my current role 22 months so almost two years and never had a salary review or received a bonus or even had a discussion on salary or anything related to it since I started in the role.

For a little background, I have a degree and a 1.1 masters and work in a field related to it in what I suppose is a graduate/low level job with salary of 27k. Previous to this, I had one years office experience also. In the time since I've started, any feedback which Ive gotten has been really positive and I've always received excellent ratings at appraisal time and great feedback.

My first appraisal was done 8 months into the role and at that time I was still on my probation period and figured when salary/bonus wasnt mentioned, it wasnt appropriate.

Since then, I have completed a series of exams and began to take on work which wasnt envisaged at the start. Before I started in the job, it was previously university students that used do it for 10 months at a time while on placement. Obviously since I took it over, I was advised that I would be doing more work than them etc but I feel as If I might still be being regarded like them with regards to compensation.

To be honest, I'm finding it very hard to survive on the salary while renting in Dublin and running a car etc and thought that after 2 years I would see some sort of an increase. There isn't any room for promotion in the department that Im in as it is so small and I feel like I'm doing exactly what I did when I started in the role so that at this stage it's not even beneficial to me staying on.

I've been looking for jobs and there is almost nothing in the sector that Im in available which means I'm pretty much stuck there.

This week I had my annual appraisal with my manager who isn't very personable and once again was told my work was great, very happy with me etc etc and again no mention whatsoever of financial rewards.

I was going to say something but at the time I just couldnt bring myself to as it seemed to be a very closed conversation but I'm so mad at myself now. I feel like they are happy with my work etc and glad to have me but aren't willing to compensate me or do not care about career development.

The only negative feedback I got at all is that chargeable hours were lower in the dept this year but that isnt really a reflection on me as I complete all work given to me etc.

I'm so upset in the job and feel like I'm stuck in a dead-end and generally just feel trapped.

I want to discuss this with my manager but feel like I missed my chance.
I'm contemplating being v honest and just saying that I'll have to consider whether its feasible for me to continue living in Dublin on the current salary particularly when I dont seem to be taking on extra work / new responsibilities etc as I can't sustain myself but am afraid of the consequences of doing this particularly when the jobs are thin on the ground but I really can't go on for much longer at this as I feel like I'm getting to a breaking point.

I would really appreciate any advice / comments which anyone might have on this.

Thanks,
Jane

Taltos

Better here OP I think.
For anyone who has followed this from PI please read the local charter before posting.

Thanks
Taltos

Outkast_IRE

honestly you need to question if you want to carry on working in a company which doesn't care about your professional development even if they increase your salary a bit.

By all means bring it up with your boss.
But at the same time I would be getting my CV in order and browse jobs and see whats available, and what demand for your profession is like.

You have almost 2 years experience now, and for a lot of potential employers that's enough to get you into the interview room, its up to you to sell yourself from there.

Moonbeam

ask for a payrise,you have nothing to loose.

MagicMarker

If you're having problems surviving on 27k in Dublin then frankly you need to re-evaluate your spending habits.

Ah_Yeah

MagicMarker wrote: »

If you're having problems surviving on 27k in Dublin then frankly you need to re-evaluate your spending habits.

I'd disagree. On payday €1,300 goes out of my account. That would leave me with €500 for the month to cover food and petrol. Then it's not factoring in a few nights out here and there. The OP seems to be young and will likely want to have an active social life. It's very possible to live on €27k as I've done it, but a lot of sacrifices need to be !made, and why should anyone have to make sacrifices when they deserve more than what they're getting?

OP, I have yet to come across a company that I worked for that voluntarily gave me a pay raise - in this economic climate it is rare - so I suggest you organise a meeting and put your best rationale forward as to why you should receive a raise. I have always found numbers to work for me as I am confident in concrete figures,e.g. I increased revenue by X, I saved X man hours etc. I would also be confident and assures enough that I would mention a figure. Ensure you know what the salary for your role is in the industry too.

If they refuse,I think I'd be looking to move - if I felt I were worth more, that I wasn't being compensated adequately or that there was no room to grow. That's your call though.

LegacyUser

OP here. Thanks for the input and advice everyone.

I manage to survive in 27k and while I realise that people are in worse situations, it is quite difficult considering car costs etc and I do not spend foolishly by any means.

I just feel that at this stage with my qualifications and experience, while I am grateful to have a role, I would like more if possible to make things a little easier and even to contemplate being able to save a few euro each month or not be worrying incase something unexpected comes up like a trip to the doctor.

LegacyUser

At this stage I would do the following.

1. You need to 2 days holiday off from work and once you arrange this I would email my cv to as may recruitment agencies as possible who deal with your industry/work area.
Put a cover note with your cv saying that you would like to met them on such a day/time to chat about any openings they may have.
Once you send your cv start to ring and make appointments to see them.

2. See what comes from you meetings from them. They should be in a position to tell you what salary you should now be on or you could look this up on some of the job sites.

3. Write down a list of what you have done for your company, how you saved them money ect.
I would then arrange a meeting with your boss and remind them that you are now doing x job, have got y exams and you know they are happy with your work but that you have yet to get a pay increase or bonus after being in the company for almost 2 years.
Your boss may need to talk to other people about giving you a pay rise.
Don't mention a figure to them and let them come back to you with a figure.
If they tell you they are not going to give you a pay rise I would start to look on a serious basis for another job. Take an odd sick day for interviews and move on when the right job comes up.
If your boss asks then why are you leaving tell them I have enjoyed working here, I learnt a lot but I got a better offer.

You told us that you currently have a car. Do you really need a car to get to work or get home at the weekends? A car costs a lot to own and run. I have to be honest if your on a salary of €27 k and when you get paid you have €1300 a month going out of your bank account that day it seems that you are working to have a car on the road.
Your car could cost you €500 a month plus between repayments, insurance, tax, petrol, nct, servicing. If you could put €500 a month into a regular savings account you would have €6000 saved in 12 months not including the interest you earn on this.
If you could do with out the car and get your company to pay for your bus ticket on the tax saver scheme you would be a lot better off.

I knew someone who was in your position in Dublin a few years ago. They had a car and sold it due the cost of running it. They used a bike to get around along with the bus/dart/luas. Within a few years they have enough saved to get mortgage.
Also they moved job a few times to get a better salary. It was a short term pain for a long term gain.

Another option is to look at where you live and what rent you are paying. You may be able to move to another area for cheaper rent.

MouseTail

The annual review was the appropriate time to bring this up. But you can still approach your manager to discuss your career progression and package.

You are at the start if your career, and should be progressing. If there is not the opportunities to do so within this company, and it does seem as if you have reached a ceiling there, it is time to take the next step up elsewhere.

Mrs OBumble

OP, have you actually asked for a pay rise?

LegacyUser

No I haven't asked yet. I've never done it and not sure how to approach it and afriad of damaging the work relationship and of the repurcussions so just looking for some advice / opinions first.

Ah_Yeah

janey87 wrote: »

No I haven't asked yet. I've never done it and not sure how to approach it and afriad of damaging the work relationship and of the repurcussions so just looking for some advice / opinions first.

As I mentioned already, don't expect a raise if you don't ask for one. Don't ask, don't get.

Just ask. You're not doing anything illegal.

LegacyUser

janey87 wrote: »

No I haven't asked yet. I've never done it and not sure how to approach it and afriad of damaging the work relationship and of the repurcussions so just looking for some advice / opinions first.

I was in a very similar position to yourself. I graduated from a software engineering degree and straight away joined a compnay on ~27k. After a while, I began to realise that I was pretty good compared to older, more experienced & qualified colleagues. I had this nagging thought in my mind for ages of feeling a bit low paid, feeling others were surely on much better money for being less productive, less talented, etc.

I would certainly be more of an introvert than an extrovert. Not great public speaking. In the past, would tend to be quite nervy in some situations, like interviews, or difficult 1 v 1 discussions etc. But I put the two things up against each other:

- Shy away from a 1-on-1 with the manager because it feels difficult, and accept the low pay.
- Be couragoues, set up a "quick meeting", just say what you feel, and within a few minutes, it's all done (like going to the dentist).

I didn't find it difficult to do the latter. I just kept saying to myself "focus on the principle, you know you are right, don't let yourself be bowled over, push for what you know you deserve". In the end, I did get a bit of a payrise, once the next salary reviews came along (after a few months).

In saying that, it's a supply and demand thing. I don't think you mentioned which sector you're working in. It's different in computing - there are jobs everywhere, so we can be a bit more pushy, knowing that the exit of one company will likely be the entrance to another, along with a big payrise. So in my field of work, if a company feels you might leave and wants to keep you, they might be pressured into giving the payrise.

Unfortunately, if jobs are not so plentiful in your area of work, it's not as easy to secure a payrise as, like I say, it's a supply & demand thing. You may quit the company over 27k, but the company knows someone else will likely fill the position on that pay (although there's a big cost involved with hiring, interviewing, training etc. which is for a different discussion really).

When you say "...and again no mention whatsoever of financial rewards.", a point I have to make is, don't expect that managers, companys, etc. will take care of you - don't expect that they will ensure that they will just come forward and happen to give what you want, without you actually pushing for it. Yes, it may happen in some situations. But a lot of the time, you simply have to make it known what you want, and what your intentions are.

But I have to stress again - only you know your area of work. You have to look at your job, your performance, how much cost would be involved for the company to replace you (if you were to quit over not getting a payrise), cost involved in hiring/training a new person, while also the cost involved by loss of performance/productivity from losing you and hiring someone else who is not as good as you. Basically, think of it from the company's point of view.

LegacyUser

Testman123 wrote: »

I was in a very similar position to yourself. I graduated from a software engineering degree and straight away joined a compnay on ~27k. After a while, I began to realise that I was pretty good compared to older, more experienced & qualified colleagues. I had this nagging thought in my mind for ages of feeling a bit low paid, feeling others were surely on much better money for being less productive, less talented, etc.

I would certainly be more of an introvert than an extrovert. Not great public speaking. In the past, would tend to be quite nervy in some situations, like interviews, or difficult 1 v 1 discussions etc. But I put the two things up against each other:

- Shy away from a 1-on-1 with the manager because it feels difficult, and accept the low pay.
- Be couragoues, set up a "quick meeting", just say what you feel, and within a few minutes, it's all done (like going to the dentist).

I didn't find it difficult to do the latter. I just kept saying to myself "focus on the principle, you know you are right, don't let yourself be bowled over, push for what you know you deserve". In the end, I did get a bit of a payrise, once the next salary reviews came along (after a few months).

In saying that, it's a supply and demand thing. I don't think you mentioned which sector you're working in. It's different in computing - there are jobs everywhere, so we can be a bit more pushy, knowing that the exit of one company will likely be the entrance to another, along with a big payrise. So in my field of work, if a company feels you might leave and wants to keep you, they might be pressured into giving the payrise.

Unfortunately, if jobs are not so plentiful in your area of work, it's not as easy to secure a payrise as, like I say, it's a supply & demand thing. You may quit the company over 27k, but the company knows someone else will likely fill the position on that pay (although there's a big cost involved with hiring, interviewing, training etc. which is for a different discussion really).

When you say "...and again no mention whatsoever of financial rewards.", a point I have to make is, don't expect that managers, companys, etc. will take care of you - don't expect that they will ensure that they will just come forward and happen to give what you want, without you actually pushing for it. Yes, it may happen in some situations. But a lot of the time, you simply have to make it known what you want, and what your intentions are.

But I have to stress again - only you know your area of work. You have to look at your job, your performance, how much cost would be involved for the company to replace you (if you were to quit over not getting a payrise), cost involved in hiring/training a new person, while also the cost involved by loss of performance/productivity from losing you and hiring someone else who is not as good as you. Basically, think of it from the company's point of view.

Thanks for such a detailed post!

I don't really have the nerve to straight out ask for a rise because of my qualifications and the industry that I'm in (law grad) there are loads of unemployed grads and the company will be able to get another person to replace me and probably even get away with paying them less so the odds are in their favour in that way.

My worries have been compounded now as I'm being forced to move house due to landlord selling up. I have been in this place for the past two years and the rent is quite reasonable for Dublin.Having looked on daft rent has really increased so much so I really do not think it's feasible for me to continue in this role without making ends meet! This however is not my employers problem.

I just really don't know what to do and it's causing me so much stress.

I've been meeting with recruiters and applied for over 30 jobs in the last few weeks and the only feedback I'm getting is that there's nothing out there for someone like me at the moment.

I really feel like I'm screwed.

My options are
Stick in current job which I hate, amen't progressing in at all, the company just want someone to keep doing what they're being given and aren't interested in developing someone.

Quit when I have nothing else to move to. This is a ridiculous option so isn't really even an option. The only thing would be that if I quit I could pursue further education but can't afford to do this at all as I'm literally counting the pennies until payday.

Ah_Yeah

janey87 wrote: »

Thanks for such a detailed post!

I don't really have the nerve to straight out ask for a rise because of my qualifications and the industry that I'm in (law grad) there are loads of unemployed grads and the company will be able to get another person to replace me and probably even get away with paying them less so the odds are in their favour in that way.

My worries have been compounded now as I'm being forced to move house due to landlord selling up. I have been in this place for the past two years and the rent is quite reasonable for Dublin.Having looked on daft rent has really increased so much so I really do not think it's feasible for me to continue in this role without making ends meet! This however is not my employers problem.

I just really don't know what to do and it's causing me so much stress.

I've been meeting with recruiters and applied for over 30 jobs in the last few weeks and the only feedback I'm getting is that there's nothing out there for someone like me at the moment.

I really feel like I'm screwed.

My options are
Stick in current job which I hate, amen't progressing in at all, the company just want someone to keep doing what they're being given and aren't interested in developing someone.

Quit when I have nothing else to move to. This is a ridiculous option so isn't really even an option. The only thing would be that if I quit I could pursue further education but can't afford to do this at all as I'm literally counting the pennies until payday.

At this stage, you are complaining about something you have done nothing about. Of you have not asked for more money, or asked for an opportunity to progress (such as challenging responsibilities), then how do you expect your employer to know this is what you want?

Additionally, if you say a new grad could do the same job as you for the same salary, then your employer would not see the need to give you a raise. As the previous poster mentioned, its all about supply and demand. If there is something you can do better than someone else that's on the same salary, and this something is valuable and creates revenue or is profitable to the company in some way, that warrants a raise. Find what you do that qualifies, and present that to your manager.

And you're right, your cost of living is not grounds for a raise. It is quite possibly the worst reason for asking for a raise.

the_syco

Two things;

janey87 wrote: »

• I have a degree and a 1.1 masters and work in a field related to it in what I suppose is a graduate/low level job with salary of 27k.
  
• In the time since I've started, any feedback which Ive gotten has been really positive and I've always received excellent ratings at appraisal time and great feedback.
  
• This week I had my annual appraisal with my manager who isn't very personable and once again was told my work was great, very happy with me etc etc and again no mention whatsoever of financial rewards.

The reason why you should get a pay-rise; you join company, you excel at the job, and you do well in your ratings. Not because you live in a house/have a car/etc. The latter doesn't bring anything to the job, the former does.

janey87 wrote: »

Since then, I have completed a series of exams and began to take on work which wasnt envisaged at the start.

Who has paid for the exams? You or your work?

TonyStark

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, have you actually asked for a pay rise?

If you don't ask you won't get. Companies will not offer pay rises if they think they can get by with paying you as less as possible. It's harsh but true unfortunately

yawhat!

It depends OP on how difficult is your job?
Could they get someone tomorrow to replace you and train them up with very little training?

27K isn't that bad of a salary for someone starting out and you are only working two years. Is there many jobs in what you do on recruitment sites?

A lot of companies don't offer career progression and the ones that do offer it only will only offer progression if you are good enough to be progressed to be given a more difficult role. If you remain in the same role they will increase your wage to a good bit better than the national average for the same position.

I only started out on 22,000 in a company with a 2.2 degree in I.T in Dublin along with other people who got 1.1 degree and masters and who i knew who were making more than me in the start. 12 months later I excelled in the role and now earn 32,000 and a lot of them got let go after six months, others after a year while I earned a permanent contract.

Been able to deal with clients effectively is 60% of your career been progressed. Ask them for a pay rise is something you should definitely do. They probably think your happy on 27k or think they can away with it.

I don't know how you are not surviving on 27K to be honest. I could get a car, rent and have money to go boozing on the weekends when I was on 22k.

Grumpypants

If you don't want to come straight out and just ask for a raise ask your boss about career progression or career development within the company.

To be honest I wouldn't get hung up on tying a figure to your experience or masters as both are largely irrelevant at this stage. Your salary is tied to want you can do for them in the future.

Discuss with your manager what you can do for them , what role you want and what you need to do to get the role.

Once your career starts moving in the right direction your salary will too.

witnessmenow

yawhat! wrote: »

It depends OP on how difficult is your job?
Could they get someone tomorrow to replace you and train them up with very little training?

27K isn't that bad of a salary for someone starting out and you are only working two years. Is there many jobs in what you do on recruitment sites?

A lot of companies don't offer career progression and the ones that do offer it only will only offer progression if you are good enough to be progressed to be given a more difficult role. If you remain in the same role they will increase your wage to a good bit better than the national average for the same position.

I only started out on 22,000 in a company with a 2.2 degree in I.T in Dublin along with other people who got 1.1 degree and masters and who i knew who were making more than me in the start. 12 months later I excelled in the role and now earn 32,000 and a lot of them got let go after six months, others after a year while I earned a permanent contract.

Been able to deal with clients effectively is 60% of your career been progressed. Ask them for a pay rise is something you should definitely do. They probably think your happy on 27k or think they can away with it.

I don't know how you are not surviving on 27K to be honest. I could get a car, rent and have money to go boozing on the weekends when I was on 22k.

Depends on the area you are in. I'm a software developer, with a 2.2 degree, in Galway, working in this company for about 2 years from a graduate position (they dont seemt to count my previous experience, as Im pretty much on par with others who started with me) and I'm on a sizable amount more than that, in fact the starting salary was more than that.

People can pretty much adjust to whatever they are on in most cases, in my previous job I was on 24K, which i could live on comfortably enough, but there wasnt much left over for savings etc.

LuckyLloyd

To be honest, how good / bad you are with money is a separate issue to how much you are paid. The former needs to be worked on and solved otherwise you'll always find yourself short somehow even if you're on €50k (speaking from experience here ).

Some spot on posts above. Essentially, if you don't worry about your career; your role; your utilisation within a company; and ultimately your pay don't expect someone else to do it for you. Often companies will be fully aware that staff members are underpaid relative to their market value but be willing to gamble that they won't move on. In such situations, a pay rise will suddenly be offered the day you walk in with your notice in tow.

It sounds like you achieved a good education and are good at what you do. Fair play on those fronts, it should give you confidence. Too often I see people who are afraid to push their own corner at review time and have this idea in their head that no other company would ever have them. Getting a new job is a pain in the ass. Updating your CV, writing cover letters, having phone calls and interviews is work and it's time consuming and scary. Because of that, lots of people settle in jobs they aren't mad about while feeling undervalued. Don't be one of those people!

Best of luck approaching your manager as the first step anyway.

Wanderer2010

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, have you actually asked for a pay rise?

Did you not read the OP? He/she very clearly stated that they didnt ask for a payrise as they werent up for it. Your post is a bit silly in my opinion.

Ah_Yeah

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Did you not read the OP? He/she very clearly stated that they didnt ask for a payrise as they werent up for it. Your post is a bit silly in my opinion.

Quite the opposite in fact. Why someone would complain about not receiving something without having asked for it is much more silly IMO.

S.R.

janey87, move abroad. I think you can find work with your education somewhere in USA or Canada.