Modding Inconsistencies in AH

RDM_83 again

Firstly I would like to state I am not a homophobe, supporter of YD/Iona Institute and will be voting yes to this referendum.
Now thats out of the way.

There appears to be genuine inconsistency in moderation in AH in this thread here.

The user _Redzer_ posts this

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Usual list of proven homophobes in thread including yourself... check

And receives a Red card (which most of the time I have seen results in a don't post in this thread again, or at minimum don't post like that in the thread again but I know that not a hard and fast rule).

He's posting in thread again after this point so fair enough didn't receive a thread ban.

Along the way there's a fair whack of cards handed out.

Phill Ewinn gets banned immediately for posting after a mod warning, harsh but hey he did ignore a mod warning, the harshness is because he didn't get yellow carded earlier in the discussion or told to in a mod note to improve posting earlier in the thread instead of just being given a final warning where other posters received red cards and are allowed to keep posting (not just _Redzer_ either)

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Oh right. I'm winding people up? That so. The people telling lies and carrying on like little bold boys are allowed to play? I'm not. Boo hoo!

The bullying has turned to censorship. Moderators have again pulled the plug an the debate and allowed the thread to be derailed time and time again.

Being asked the same question fifteen times a day. Giving answers and receiving none back from the same group of yapping time wasters.

Thats boards. The new stormfront of the internet. The home of liberal facism

Mod: Banned

Where the inconsistency comes in is that _Redzer_ can then post,

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Did someone steal a chromosome from you?

with no mod action, even though its abuse, probably offensive to peoples who have families with Downs syndrome sufferers and also feeding the troll/reply to a band poster.

then

whats the point wrote: »

Really? How many posters have called him a bigot and homophope? I've lost count, yet he is the person who gets told to not post again in the thread.


Edit now just see he has been banned

Whats the point actually gets carded (yellow) for discussing moderation in thread directly after so I have no doubt a mod saw Redzers post

Redzer posts again, after another mod warning, which says not to refer to the ban with this,

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Pill was great at that. I'll miss Phill

Again no action taken.

Now am I the only one seeing the inconsistencies here in terms of mod action, particularly the yellow carding of 'whats the point.

A poster can be seen to be consistently flaunting the rules on a thread that must be being watched considering the amount of cards handed out and the banning of posters, yet there is no warning not to post on thread.

This isn't a personal crusade against this user but I think it does highlight some serious inconsistencies in the way some threads are moderated in AH, is abuse against some posters tolerated to a much higher level because, they aren't the kind of posters that are wanted?

Anyway at least eorpach's replies made the thread mildly tolerable.

El Guapo!

I hate to break it to you but there is no inconsistency. _Redzer_ is also banned.
Just because there's no visible card on the thread doesn't mean there has been no action.
These posters are more than welcome to start threads in the DRF if they feel hard done by, but trust me, they don't need anyone fighting their battles in here.

Oh, and missing a chromosome doesn't cause Down's syndrome. Having an extra one does.

padd b1975

El Guapo! wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but there is no inconsistency. _Redzer_ is also banned.
Just because there's no visible card on the thread doesn't mean there has been no action.
These posters are more than welcome to start threads in the DRF if they feel hard done by, but trust me, they don't need anyone fighting their battles in here.

Oh, and missing a chromosome doesn't cause Down's syndrome. Having an extra one does.

Is there any particular reason why this is the case?

El Guapo!

padd b1975 wrote: »

Is there any particular reason why this is the case?

If a poster is banned, nothing shows up on the post. It just seems to be a part of the system. Something really should be visible though.
That's why, most of the time, a mod will edit the post to say they're banned. It's the only visual indicator that any action has taken place.

P. Breathnach

El Guapo! wrote: »

If a poster is banned, nothing shows up on the post. It just seems to be a part of the system. Something really should be visible though.
That's why, most of the time, a mod will edit the post to say they're banned. It's the only visual indicator that any action has taken place.

Indeed.

Yellow and red cards are visible as information for other users that a poster has been sanctioned. They help to indicate what is not acceptable in a forum.

Something that merits a ban is even less acceptable, but it can sometimes be inferred (as happened here) that the mods have tolerated it.

RDM_83 again

El Guapo! wrote: »

These posters are more than welcome to start threads in the DRF if they feel hard done by, but trust me, they don't need anyone fighting their battles in here.

Its not about fighting their battles for them in my OP I state I can see why Phill was banned, its because as a normal user reading through the thread all the information I could see indicated that this type of posting was tolerated, where for the other user(s) I mentioned in the post there is no ambiguity, I presume it would only take literally 20 seconds to fire on another red card or "Mod Banned" message even if its only to stop other users replying to said banned poster and to show that this posting isn't tolerated.

You can close this thread if you like I wouldn't have even considered starting it if I knew off thread action had been taken

El Guapo! wrote: »

Oh, and missing a chromosome doesn't cause Down's syndrome. Having an extra one does.

Balls must stop posting for bed I obviously meant Jacobsen syndrome :cool:

El Guapo!

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I presume it would only take literally 20 seconds to fire on another red card or "Mod Banned" message even if its only to stop other users replying to said banned poster and to show that this posting isn't tolerated.

A red card is automatically put on the post when an infraction is given. A mod can't choose to put a red card in.
A ban is different altogether. There's no card applied to the post. That's why it's good practice for a mod to edit the post to reflect that. It is something that is done 99% of the time though. Of course there's times when it's forgotten though.

It would be a good idea though if maybe a black card or something similar was put on the post if a user is banned for that particular post.

Orion

I don't think that would be a good idea. A user can be banned for a series of posts or for multiple infractions - none of which individually warrant a ban. If you tie a ban to one post can you just imagine the DRPs?

Generally on the odd occasion I've banned I infract the post and apply the ban in the infraction dialogue. At least then a red card is on the post. And the user will get a separate message as to why they have been banned.

Spear

El Guapo! wrote: »

It would be a good idea though if maybe a black card or something similar was put on the post if a user is banned for that particular post.

My exact suggestion back during the consultancy for modutils 3, but it wasn't taken up.

Dav

I think the change I'd like to make is remove the Yellow Card from Warnings, apply that to infractions and bump Red Cards up to bans.

People get so utterly butt-hurt over a warning, maybe they'd stop their whinging if it wasn't visible (and maybe if they didn't behave like a numpty they wouldn't get a warning in the first place).

MadsL

If you become a Mod you get a list of forums you mod beside your name.

Could it be the same with a list next to your user name ie

Banned from: Liquorish


Could the use of Banned as a title also be umm banned. Very confusing.

El Guapo!

MadsL wrote: »

If you become a Mod you get a list of forums you mod beside your name.

Could it be the same with a list next to your user name ie

Banned from: Liquorish


Could the use of Banned as a title also be umm banned. Very confusing.

I don't see how displaying the forums you're banned from would be beneficial.


And on a side note.....how much of an asshole would you need to be to get banned from the Liquorice forum!

Nodin

El Guapo! wrote: »

I don't see how displaying the forums you're banned from would be beneficial.


And on a side note.....how much of an asshole would you need to be to get banned from the Liquorice forum!

....people get banned from Weather, Farming......Where there's a will theres a way.

anncoates

El Guapo! wrote: »

And on a side note.....how much of an asshole would you need to be to get banned from the Liquorice forum!

You shouldn't judge as it takes allsorts...

Cabaal

MadsL wrote: »

If you become a Mod you get a list of forums you mod beside your name.

Could it be the same with a list next to your user name ie

Banned from: Liquorish


Could the use of Banned as a title also be umm banned. Very confusing.

I'd see this as a bad idea, some people would see it as a badge of honor

It would be like how some people see ASBO's as a badge of honor, it would likely be a minority but why give them something they can openly boost about?

Dades

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd see this as a bad idea, some people would see it as a badge of honor

It would be like how some people see ASBO's as a badge of honor, it would likely be a minority but why give them something they can openly boost about?

This. All day long.

I like the idea of a card of some sort to indicate a ban has been given following that post. I get that a ban is usally on foot of multiple posts, but the reality is there's almost always a last straw to apply the card to.

Complaining about a "black card" in DR would be no different (and no less simple to clear up) to the many DRs we have where people feel they've been banned for one post when in fact it's a history of post that's the issue.

hullaballoo

What about when the post for which the card issues is deleted? I regularly delete posts that have led members to being carded because the content is not something that should remain visible.

MugMugs

hullaballoo wrote: »

What about when the post for which the card issues is deleted? I regularly delete posts that have led members to being carded because the content is not something that should remain visible.

Could you not card the post, retain the post and remove the content therein with a <snip> and edit reason of "Poster Infracted - X discussion is not welcome here" ?

Penn

hullaballoo wrote: »

What about when the post for which the card issues is deleted? I regularly delete posts that have led members to being carded because the content is not something that should remain visible.

Well, in some cases it can be best to leave the post up with a mod note saying the poster was banned, as other posters can see that type of post isn't acceptable (plus some posters may have responded to it meaning you'd have to delete/edit their posts too).

If it's really bad though, I tend to snip out the offending text but leave the post visible, and add a mod note saying the poster was banned or whatever.

Dav

You know what though, we shouldn't need to leave abusive comments up to say "this is what will get you banned" because common sense and some self control should be enough. We shouldn't have to waste Mod time in spelling out bad behaviour - it's usually self evident.

Penn

Dav wrote: »

You know what though, we shouldn't need to leave abusive comments up to say "this is what will get you banned" because common sense and some self control should be enough. We shouldn't have to waste Mod time in spelling out bad behaviour - it's usually self evident.

I don't think the mod note is spelling out the bad behaviour, simply pointing out that the poster was banned, as there's no icon as opposed to when there's a yellow or red card. Your suggestion of upgrading the cards to yellow for infraction and red for ban would eliminate the need for mod notes for bans.

If posters don't know mod action was taken, they'll keep reporting it.

hullaballoo

MugMugs wrote: »

Could you not card the post, retain the post and remove the content therein with a <snip> and edit reason of "Poster Infracted - X discussion is not welcome here" ?

Penncil Dick wrote: »

Well, in some cases it can be best to leave the post up with a mod note saying the poster was banned, as other posters can see that type of post isn't acceptable (plus some posters may have responded to it meaning you'd have to delete/edit their posts too).

If it's really bad though, I tend to snip out the offending text but leave the post visible, and add a mod note saying the poster was banned or whatever.

I'm not talking about abusive posts. I'm talking about posts where the content cannot remain in place.

Often, I will have to do these in batches and where many other users have quoted the offending post.

I can either batch delete or edit multiple posts to insert a warning. It's a case of 10-15 seconds vs. 10-15 minutes.

My point is really that there isn't a once-size-fits-all rule that can be put in place. If AH mods want to adopt a rule that all of their actions remain visibe, fair play to them. It just isn't going to work everywhere unless/until there is extensive software development catering for it.

Dades

Could you not just batch delete all offending posts and re-instate one post (the carded one) with nothing but a mod note?

If it's a time issue, I don't see much extra time it would take to leave one of many posts visible with the content snipped so that people could see a ban had been given.

Doctor Strange

From a non-mod perspective, I think having even having one infracted/bannable post remain is useful if it's a "this type of discussion won't be tolerated" thing.

Mr E

Off topic post by Brown Bomber deleted. Start a new feedback thread, or open a Dispute thread if you have a problem with your ban. It has nothing to do with After Hours.