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Same narrative on emigration.

  • 28-01-2014 9:39am
    #1
    Posts: 0


    The narrative on emigration in Ireland ( or at least the narrative in the media ) is that somehow it is something inhuman and that the mammy and daddies of Ireland are left pining and bereft, because all they have is their children, they live through and for their children sacrificing everything to give them a good education and now the government ( or something ) cant provide them with jobs.

    Its as if the media is stuck in a kinda 1950s mind set about Ireland and Irish family life. The parent are usually portrayed as a couple( what's happened to all the separated, single, divorced parents, step siblings or half siblings ) The parents never seem to have careers or lives of their own. It not the only time I have seen this, the main stream media is seriously out of step with real life in Ireland.

    There was an article in the Irish times on Saturday like the above.

    Both my children are in the Uk and it is grand they have much better career prospects there they would have here, and if they went to Australia or anywhere else, I would be delighted for them. If I ever have grandchildren of course I would like to be involved with them, but the world is a small place and getting smaller. Maybe emigration is not always a bad thing and a sign of failure in countries? its just that we have become a global world with world wide migration of labour.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    Emigration is the most abused/misused word in Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,676 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Irish have always emigrated, even in the 'good times', so the figures aren't simply due to the recession. Many people like to get out and see the world.

    Of course there are people who don't want to go away and it is sad for some parents to see their (adult) children leave to find work, but we have always been like that, these times aren't as different as many would have us believe.

    My kids are only young, but I really hope when they are adults they get out and see as much of the world as they can, and do well for themselves, even if they are abroad.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're absolutely right. Most of the claptrap like "Generation Emigration" takes the default setting that it's somehow a tragedy.

    In 9/10 of the instances of emigration that I've experienced it's not a teary eyed send off on a coffin ship, but a temporary hiatus in a foreign land as a means to improving people's careers.

    I think deep down we all know that emigration nowadays is different from the emigration of the 1950's and 1980's which genuinely were tragic and heartbreaking, as in most of those cases people were leaving very difficult circumstances and moving to equally tough circumstances without anything like the resources we have nowadays.

    I'm a recent emigrant, and am not too unhappy about it. I will return in a year or two with better work experience on my CV.

    I blame the Irish government for many things, but not the fact that I emigrated.

    I blame them more for their spineless cowering in front of the EU and their pathetic attempts to secure a good deal for Ireland on the unjust transfer of banking losses to the public balance sheet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭Antar Bolaeisk


    You're just in denial OP :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The narrative on emigration in Ireland ( or at least the narrative in the media ) is that somehow it is something inhuman and that the mammy and daddies of Ireland are left pining and bereft, because all they have is their children, they live through and for their children sacrificing everything to give them a good education and now the government ( or something ) cant provide them with jobs.

    Its as if the media is stuck in a kinda 1950s mind set about Ireland and Irish family life. The parent are usually portrayed as a couple( what's happened to all the separated, single, divorced parents, step siblings or half siblings ) The parents never seem to have careers or lives of their own. It not the only time I have seen this, the main stream media is seriously out of step with real life in Ireland.

    There was an article in the Irish times on Saturday like the above.

    Both my children are in the Uk and it is grand they have much better career prospects there they would have here, and if they went to Australia or anywhere else, I would be delighted for them. If I ever have grandchildren of course I would like to be involved with them, but the world is a small place and getting smaller. Maybe emigration is not always a bad thing and a sign of failure in countries? its just that we have become a global world with world wide migration of labour.

    For many that leave, they will never come back and as most are abroad to work visiting is not always an option.
    As for most parents still being together its probably representative of that age group and many would be retired.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,826 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    When I moved back to Ireland 10 years ago, it was for economic reasons. Ie the reverse of what you are saying. I wasn't all that keen to be honest but a couple of family get togethers later I was convinced we'd made the right decision (my English wife is still unconvinced!!).
    The interaction between family members, young and old, is something you will find very hard to replicate with friends. Knowing that your kids are completely relaxed and happy in a family environment is very reassuring as a parent. Happy days!
    However, 10 years later we find that the majority of our immediate family have now left the country to work all over the world, leaving us here. Mad times!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    There's no such thing as emigration anymore, the world is a hell of a lot smaller than it was fifty years ago and it's getting smaller all the time.

    In my grandparents' time, people moved to Dublin and were never heard of again. I have a neighbour that works in the Kimberley, his family live at home and he's here a week every month.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    I think you'll find that the reason for the media's narrative, is the fact that it resonates with most people. Family is very important.

    My parents get to see my kids almost every single weekend. And if for some reason they don't, well, they just visit us mid-week. Which is fine, since we're never short of babysitters, due also to the fact that the mother-in-law who lives alone cannot wait to see her grand kids.

    You say that the world is getting smaller, so I'm going to assume you are talking about the likes of Skype? I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that most grand parents would rather see their grand kids in person, actual physical contact, than on-screen. What's so 1950's about that?

    Anyone who has been forced* to leave this country in search of work has been failed by our self-serving, in-it-for-the-three-pensions, politicians and those too-complicated-to-be-brought-to-justice banksters.

    *People will always leave, even in good times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,260 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Something wrong when football teams are having to merge to field a full strength team because the numbers are so low. (at under age level)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,590 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Most people I think prefer to live and work in their own country,its the lack of choice that gives the narrative.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    everyone is different OP.. some people are devastated at the thought of their children having to emigrate, other people are ho-hum... and in fairness, Irish people who are working in the UK are much more likely to return home regularly than those working in OZ.

    Having said that, I have heard recently of Irish miners in Perth, who work month on - month off, come home to Ireland for their month off because it works out cheaper than having to rent short term in Perth.. plus they get to spend every second month with their families.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I am not saying it wrong or right as such it just the way it is always portrayed in the media, it is never the full picture, for example I know of irish parents who are in the middle east and their college aged children are here or of parents who have moved to the countries where their children are and so on.

    The luxury of free and ample baby siting is great bones when grandparents live near by and I would be the best baby sitter if I ever have grand children which might mean I would have to go to where my children are.

    Life is very varied, yet it only one narrative we get in the media.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    About half of my group of close friends from school / college have left the country and are gone 2 or 3 years now. Some of them will never come back, apart from the odd visit. I still feel the hole that left in my own life, and I'm fairly young, working full time and still have a social life. I can only imagine that that feeling is amplified for parents, especially those who are a bit older and beginning to slow down.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    Emigration is the most abused/misused word in Ireland.

    This is from the wiki on the matter.

    Emigration is the act of leaving one's country or region with the intent to settle permanently in another. It is the same as immigration but from the perspective of the country of origin. Human movement in general is termed migration. There are many reasons why people might choose to emigrate;


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭iDave


    Every morning on Facebook there seem to be new pictures of friends in Australia in nightclubs, at BBQs, Rugby matches, Cricket matches, Australian Open etc. All with big smiles. Many already had jobs in Ireland. One lad I know never even experienced the Irish recession. Moved to London in 2007 and decided to go there to have the craic. Tragedy my arse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    mariaalice wrote: »
    This is from the wiki on the matter.

    Emigration is the act of leaving one's country or region with the intent to settle permanently in another. It is the same as immigration but from the perspective of the country of origin. Human movement in general is termed migration. There are many reasons why people might choose to emigrate;

    I am well aware of what the word means I emigrated myself, but it often gets confused with holidays these days.

    People say they are emigrating but they are back a year later when their holiday visa runs out, they remind me of geese.... migrating for the year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    There's no such thing as emigration anymore, the world is a hell of a lot smaller than it was fifty years ago and it's getting smaller all the time.

    In my grandparents' time, people moved to Dublin and were never heard of again. I have a neighbour that works in the Kimberley, his family live at home and he's here a week every month.


    Emigration doesn't mean what it does (as in you won't see your kids again) but it exists. I've a brother and a sister in the USA who've been there for years and will never come home. I can count on two hands how often I've seen my brother in the last 20 odd years. I essentially don't know him anymore. There's no sign of me returning in the foreseeable future either, although I'm closer to home. The fact that 3 of my dad's 5 children will never come home really upsets him, particularly as he's fairly old himself (retired) and I suppose he'd like this kids around him as he enters old age.

    Not to play the tiny violin but my family are not the exception in Ireland. Emigration wasn't out of necessity for me and I'm happy as larry away from home as are my siblings but it's not all sunshine and lollipops either.

    Of course a young person going to Australia for a few years is nothing like the above and it's stupid to put them in the same category. I'd recommend travelling to anyone even just for the craic. The Irish have always travelled, even during the good times and long may it continue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    mariaalice wrote: »
    This is from the wiki on the matter.

    Emigration is the act of leaving one's country or region with the intent to settle permanently in another. It is the same as immigration but from the perspective of the country of origin. Human movement in general is termed migration. There are many reasons why people might choose to emigrate;

    Permanently is the important word there. Judging by that criteria, I doubt anyone would consider the two year working holiday visa in Oz, or TEFL in Dubai, crowds count as emigrants.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Every morning on Facebook there seem to be new pictures of friends in Australia in nightclubs, at BBQs, Rugby matches, Cricket matches, Australian Open etc. All with big smiles.

    True. I don't feel like I'm the victim of a tragedy at all to be honest. I earn good money and spent Saturday evening cavorting around Camden Town with loads of Scandinavian women and then went to see The Commitments in the West End the day after. It certainly beats the sh*t out of a night in Havanas in Cork anyway.

    However, that having been said; the above situation was always the case with emigrants to be honest. People bang on about the 1980s emigrants as if they were a dour bunch ground down by life. My two aunts moved here at that period and the craic was absolutely 90. It was the best years of their life and both of them are well settled in good jobs. Where would you rather be in 1984? A booming London or somewhere like rural Waterford?

    A far greater tragedy for young people (whether in the 80s or now) would be for them to hang around in a country that provides them zero opportunity, working sh*t jobs or else languishing on the dole while their skills atrophy and life slips away from them. Emigration, for the individual can be a great thing. It was for me anyway. Many of the current generation will return. Many won't. Such is life.

    One thing I do resent however, is the notion that emigration doesn't exist; that everyone is just away on holiday. The fact I have a good life here doesn't change the fact that I am here for the simple fact that there was and is nothing for me at home. And before I got my break, I was living in a sh*thole working 70 hours a week on building sites and behind bars while doing an internship. It certainly wasn't plain sailing. Sixty people a day are moving to London for the same reason.

    While this is an exciting opportunity for those people as individuals; an entire generation of young people p*ssing out of the country en masse due to unemployment certainly isn't a positive thing for Ireland as a whole.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,260 ✭✭✭OldRio


    iDave wrote: »
    Every morning on Facebook there seem to be new pictures of friends in Australia in nightclubs, at BBQs, Rugby matches, Cricket matches, Australian Open etc. All with big smiles. Many already had jobs in Ireland. One lad I know never even experienced the Irish recession. Moved to London in 2007 and decided to go there to have the craic. Tragedy my arse.

    Tell the parents that.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    OldRio wrote: »
    Tell the parents that.

    They're wrong if they think it's a tragedy that their kids are off having a great time in foreign parts and they need to develop some perspective. A car crash or a young death is a tragedy, not people leaving the country to make better lives for themselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    everyone is different OP.. some people are devastated at the thought of their children having to emigrate, other people are ho-hum... and in fairness, Irish people who are working in the UK are much more likely to return home regularly than those working in OZ.

    Having said that, I have heard recently of Irish miners in Perth, who work month on - month off, come home to Ireland for their month off because it works out cheaper than having to rent short term in Perth.. plus they get to spend every second month with their families.

    Jesus Christ, that sounds like a living hell.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,216 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The narrative on emigration in Ireland ( or at least the narrative in the media ) is that somehow it is something inhuman and that the mammy and daddies of Ireland are left pining and bereft, because all they have is their children, they live through and for their children sacrificing everything to give them a good education and now the government ( or something ) cant provide them with jobs.

    Its as if the media is stuck in a kinda 1950s mind set about Ireland and Irish family life. The parent are usually portrayed as a couple( what's happened to all the separated, single, divorced parents, step siblings or half siblings ) The parents never seem to have careers or lives of their own. It not the only time I have seen this, the main stream media is seriously out of step with real life in Ireland.

    There was an article in the Irish times on Saturday like the above.

    Both my children are in the Uk and it is grand they have much better career prospects there they would have here, and if they went to Australia or anywhere else, I would be delighted for them. If I ever have grandchildren of course I would like to be involved with them, but the world is a small place and getting smaller. Maybe emigration is not always a bad thing and a sign of failure in countries? its just that we have become a global world with world wide migration of labour.

    To be fair, maybe you are in a position that you may not need your kids to look after you in future.

    Many people dont have that luxury so its cruel to comment if im honest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Breezily reducing emigration to a global labour bean count is as incomplete a picture as saying everybody that goes is doing it under duress.

    A lot of people are forced to emigrate for better prospects and a lot opt to go.

    Would I be completely devastated if my kids moved to Australia forever. Yes. Would I want them to stay here if there was nothing for them and they wanted to go? No.


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