angus X hereford bulls casterate or not?

solorpower

Question for you suckler and Dairy farmers out there.
i have a few calves out of Pedigree angus cows and a pedigree Hereford bull.
i am wondering what to do with them. normally with any cross bred bulls i would sell in the mart and there is usually nice demand for them (mostly for further fattening).
but the way bull beef has gone i am wondering would i be better off casterating them.
2 of the bulls would be the perfect angus if you ignored the white strip down the front of their head......


has any one ever used a cross bred bull for breeding?

if so what were the results.

Farmer Pudsey

Most crossbreeding of bulls mix a traditional breed HE or AA with a continental breed Simenintal being the most popular to add size and milk onto them. Charley breding would be the next most popular. This is generally used in Canada and the US to add a little size to calves breed of AA or HE cows but to retain as much hardiness as possible in the calves.

With Aa and HE bonus it is nearly a no brainer to squeeze these unless they are AA on the cards in which case the AA scheme is still taking bulls under certain ages until next december but age reducing all the time. If He on the cards I would squeeze straight away. However exporters may still take these bulls for libya however in general Prices are not spectactular

farmingmad10

Tbh I would castrate them. You shouldn't sell them in the mart either personally I think you would make more money by finishing & selling in factory. What you should do with them is castrate paddock graze them do them well on grass finish them off grass at about 21 months of age feed them 2.5/3kg meal for the last 60 days on grass. You will get good bonus on them. Abp give good bonus. Also quality assurance. If they are a bit light at 21 months finish at 23 months out of shed on good quality grass silage & 3kg meal/day.

solorpower

thanks for your reply,

they are marked HEX on the cards so the angus bonus is out of the question.

i have crossed AA with CH before and got some decent calves as a result,
i have a couple of BB heifers from AA cows but unfortunatly they are still samll in size,
I have crossed AA with Lim before and while the calves were nice they were mad in the head so i went away from them again.

the only reason i have these HE X AA is because the cows repeated after going tot the AI.
i keep both pedigree AA and HE cows, i normally AI each cow once, twice if i see her repeat and then leave out the bull to mop up any repeat.
i will leave out an AA or HE depending on the year. i normally only end up with 1 or 2 Cross bred calves but last year i had 5,
as all suckler farmers know ctaching suckler cows bulling can be difficult to say the least.

i just wonderedif any one would actualy buy a cross bred bull for breeding,

Farmer Pudsey

solorpower wrote: »

i just wonderedif any one would actualy buy a cross bred bull for breeding,

Unlikly as resultant calves are unlikly to be able to be registered as AA or HE and would not be suitable for either scheme. Maybe a farmers who may only be using a bull like yourself to mop up 2-3 cows might chance it but is unlikly to pay a premium price

farmingmad10

You would still get abp bonus on Hereford. They would get bonuses. I wouldn't have any sucklers around the place too dear to feed for just 1 calf every year. Buying in good hereford/ aberdeen angus calves & finishing as heifers/ steers mainly off grass with a grass based system with minimal levels of meal feeding would leave more profit/ha. Average cost of feeding a suckler cow in ireland now is €700. Need serious continental weanlings to make any profit & still profit/ha still not great as cows take up to much land to big overhead. In calf to beef all animals are adding weight gain that will be sold as beef.

solorpower

you are right Farmingmad about the cost of keeping sucklers is high and does not always pay.
as i only have a small few cows i went down the pedigree route. that way i can get a greater return for the calf price, i know there i a bit more work and minding in them but i am a sucker for punishment....
as a said i normally only have 1 or 2 cross bred calves but i take the view that a cross bred calf is better then no calf at all,

i hope with more selective breeding i can achieve a better price then the average.

farmingmad10

Good idea with what you're doing & best of luck with it but if I was pedigree breeding I would breed purebred limousine cattle or else belgian blue. Hereford & Angus are worth **** all as calves & beef finishers in the mart would want big continental cattle not them as they will only have smaller carcass weights & poorer feed conversion efficiency.

Farmer Pudsey

farmingmad10 wrote: »

Good idea with what you're doing & best of luck with it but if I was pedigree breeding I would breed purebred limousine cattle or else belgian blue. Hereford & Angus are worth **** all as calves & beef finishers in the mart would want big continental cattle not them as they will only have smaller carcass weights & poorer feed conversion efficiency.

TBH I would be cross breeding AA/HE off contenintal type cows if finishing. LM/FR or CH/FR. At this stage the next hit is the heavy carcasse there will be a concentrated effort to max the weight at sub 400kgs I think over the next few years. Big carcasses day are numbered it is all about premium price when breeding

farmingmad10

Theirs never anything about big carcasses around May or June ha. We had belgian blue bulls out of our Holstein dairy cows they were 460kg carcass weight

Panch18

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

TBH I would be cross breeding AA/HE off contenintal type cows if finishing. LM/FR or CH/FR. At this stage the next hit is the heavy carcasse there will be a concentrated effort to max the weight at sub 400kgs I think over the next few years. Big carcasses day are numbered it is all about premium price when breeding

I think you are right on the carcase weight issue

Back to the Angus and HE again I reckon

solorpower

when i was getting into pedigrees i looked at all breeds and which was the best.
while i agree that Lim are lovely cattle and there is a good market for them i just thought there are too many pedigrees in the country as it is, and one of my requirements in any breed is easy calving what breeding BB are way too high maintance with too many sections, i am not a fan of taking calves out the side,
Angus and hereford are docile enough and mostly calve themselves.
that and i figure that the expansion in dairy numbers will keep the demand there for a Hereford bull to mop up milking cows and angus are always popular with dairymen for use in heifers.

farmingmad10

But as a man that's breeding bulls to sell as stores the continental cattle types are a no brainer.angus are definitely not for intensive feeding & who's going to want to buy a Angus bull?

farmingmad10

Most dairy men still using friesan on heifers though. Maybe you would have customers on the dairy side alright to mop up after dairy cows but beef finishers will want charolais limousine belgian blue

solorpower

I know a lot of guys changed from using Angus on heifers in recent years but most of these guys are anxious to increase numbers of dairy cows in the next year or 2.
a number of these guys who changed from angus have gone back to angus again, they just want a handy calf from the cow in year 1 as the main job will be milking.
Herefords on the other hand are mixed between mopping cows and sometimes for heifers.
i am not targeting the suckler market as any one serious in sucklers will want a bigger breed bull.

but if i was producing beef weanlings i would change breed.


my orgional question was weather i should squeeze the Hereford X angus bulls.

every year i get a call or 2 looking for a non registered pedigree and i usually respond by asking is it a cheap pedigree you mean!!

just thought that there might be a handy sale for these lads to the guys who will not pay good money for a bull and i would get more then i would as selling them for beef, but i am thinking it would not be worth the hastle!

moy83

solorpower wrote: »

every year i get a call or 2 looking for a non registered pedigree and i usually respond by asking is it a cheap pedigree you mean!!

just thought that there might be a handy sale for these lads to the guys who will not pay good money for a bull and i would get more then i would as selling them for beef, but i am thinking it would not be worth the hastle!

The boys that wont pay good money for a purebred bull will have plenty of choice in the mart . I wouldnt be holding out for such a buyer .
Id squeeze them and sell them whenever you want then

on the river

Put them to the factory you will get the best price of them. I would not castrate them as their performance levels will drop leading to less profit. As the other posters said try introducing limousion or charolais into the breeding wichwill help with profitability

farmingmad10

solorpower wrote: »

I know a lot of guys changed from using Angus on heifers in recent years but most of these guys are anxious to increase numbers of dairy cows in the next year or 2.
a number of these guys who changed from angus have gone back to angus again, they just want a handy calf from the cow in year 1 as the main job will be milking.
Herefords on the other hand are mixed between mopping cows and sometimes for heifers.
i am not targeting the suckler market as any one serious in sucklers will want a bigger breed bull.

but if i was producing beef weanlings i would change breed.


my orgional question was weather i should squeeze the Hereford X angus bulls.

every year i get a call or 2 looking for a non registered pedigree and i usually respond by asking is it a cheap pedigree you mean!!

just thought that there might be a handy sale for these lads to the guys who will not pay good money for a bull and i would get more then i would as selling them for beef, but i am thinking it would not be worth the hastle!

I wouldn't. Tbh I don't think much would like buying a crossbred bull for using on cows. They would be lovely cattle to finish off grass they are great cattle as they are easily finished with not much meal but as regards selling in mart I don't think lads selling British breeds get enough of a price for them & if I were you I'd finish off grass & get all them bonuses

farmingmad10

It won't pay though to stuff €300 into an Aberdeen Angus as they won't come into a big carcass weight I guarantee you all if you added up the bonuses & finished with 2.5kg meal/day for 60 days even though carcass weight wouldn't be big you would make alot greater profit. You will miss out on the abp bonus if bull goes over 16 months & it finishing Angus bulls under 16 months isn't going to be profitable to much time in sheds.

Bellview

farmingmad10 wrote: »

Most dairy men still using friesan on heifers though. Maybe you would have customers on the dairy side alright to mop up after dairy cows but beef finishers will want charolais limousine belgian blue

Not sure I would agree on the fR men. Sexed semen is a game changer for genetics and which bloodlines remain in farmyards. I have ped a bulls and normally sell from mid mar. This year 2 sold to fr men already for heifers.. The jersey gone. Big carcass is market now for finishers agree once there is no change of mind from the factories like they have just done with bulls

bigredbull

future breed to be watched is stabiliser ,far ahead of aa

Bellview

bigredbull wrote: »

future breed to be watched is stabiliser ,far ahead of aa

Time will tell.. A lot of breeds have appeared in past and most are niche but let's see where it goes over time