what am i not seeing?!?!

LegacyUser

I'm going to present this as unbiased as possible but I know that some personal feelings will affect my perspective and how i present this.

To me it seems that if I raise an issue with my boyfriend he will only respond with incredulity and deflect into being my being "bitchy". To my boyfriend I attack him with my words and don't give him a chance to explain. I have tried to repeat my original statement to this instead of getting bogged down in his exaggerated recall of my accusations. It doesn’t work. We still end up fighting. And I end up feeling that I should just put up with stuff instead of trying to raise an issue.

Last night I asked him if he was OK because, throughout the day, sometimes he'd either not responded to me when I asked him things or said things. He apologised (in an angry tone IMO) and said I was being "pissy" with him. I explained I wasn't being pissy, I was just concerned about his mood because he'd been distracted. I repeated that I was not angry with him. He started raising his voice and repeated I was angry with him. He said some other stuff but I started to get panicky and did talk over him trying to reassure him I wasn't angry, just concerned. That went on for a bit and then... I'm not too sure. We came to a stalemate. I know I was just trying to not act of the frustration I was feeling.

I went downstairs (we'd been getting ready for bed) and discovered that food had been left out so started putting it away. He came down and didn't sound angry, apologised for not putting the food away and offered to help. I said, "You're grand". He said, "Thanks" and I said, "You can thank me when you're not throwing up tomorrow." I didn't mean anything by it but I'm told it was bitchy and it hit off more. He kept on at me for being on at him for not being a perfect conversationalist, he can't always be entertaining! I was being bitchy and pissy ever since he came upstairs and I wouldn't even let him help. I kept saying I wasn't angry, just concerned when he came up, that I hadn't meant it bitchilly in the kitchen and had been finished so didn't need help. He told me to stop repeating myself and stop being so angry. I pointed out his voice was raised and mine hadn't once.

There was more but it's all the above over and over.

This keeps happening. I know I've tried to use no adjectives, no insults. I don't complain about every little thing (I try to deal with MY reaction to situations and only say something when it's becoming a trend) but then I get the counter of, "why didn't you say something at the time?"
I don't know where I can improve things. When I say, "you didn't hear me when I said something earlier," he hears, "you ignored me and ostracised me." That is literally what was said last night.

How can I get him to hear what I'm actually saying and realise that what I'm asking for is so small. Just, "oops, what were you saying that I didn't hear?" and not anger. His ex was very demanding whereas I'm more independent and I think he's become accustomed to outrageous requests and complaints. I know I'm at the end of my tether and no matter how much I love this guy, it doesn't seem like a long-term relationship could work where someone can't say, what's on their mind without a 12 hour fight. And my favourite irony, I can't raise the issue of how small things turn into fights without it turning into a fight!

Sorry for the long message. Thank you for reading if you got this far.

LegacyUser

To be fair, your comment in the kitchen was very bitchy. If someone said that to me, I'd feel that they were playing the angry martyr.

LegacyUser

Honestly OP it's kind of hard to tell without exact examples of your bf''s behavior.
At first glance my first thought is that I personally would find it extremely irritating if my own boyfriend kept nagging at me and asking me if I was okay just because I 'seemed distracted'. Sometimes you just need to have peace of mind to think things through by yourself. Not everyone deals with their worries by talking about them.

As for the food comment "You can thank me when you're not throwing up tomorrow."
I personally would consider that an incredibly bitchy comment to make. Especially since it seemed your bf seemed to be trying to offer you an olive branch after the previous argument and to me that comment is effectively throwing said branch back in his face.

Also there is nothing more frustrating during an argument than someone monotonously repeating the same sentence over and over again, it's just so patronizing and passive aggressive.

To me it seems that if I raise an issue with my boyfriend he will only respond with incredulity and deflect into being my being "bitchy".

It is very hard to say if your bf is being unreasonable OP. What are there issues you have to raise with your bf exactly? What is this 'stuff' you have to put up with? Honestly in what you've posted, you weren't raising any 'issues' with him, personally it reads to me as you nagging your bf, constantly wanting to know whats on his mind and expecting him to respond to every little inane thing you say. You may not think this is demanding behavior but to me it comes across as very insecure and demanding behavior, and very far from secure independent behavior imho.

Perhaps I am completely wrong here OP but again it's hard to tell without specific instances. If you're asking your bf important questions and he's blatantly ignoring you, fair enough, that's a completely different scenario. But if you're expecting him to indulge inane chatter for the sake of it and constantly filling silences that don't need to be filled i can understand how incredibly frustrating that would be.

Merkin

I think you really really need to work on your communication skills. Your post was convoluted and hard to decipher so if that spills over into real life I would say that you're someone who doesn't express themselves well at all and this is probably having a very negative impact on your relationship.

P. Breathnach

Merkin wrote: »

I think you really really need to work on your communication skills. Your post was convoluted and hard to decipher so if that spills over into real life I would say that you're someone who doesn't express themselves well at all and this is probably having a very negative impact on your relationship.

I suspect that the boyfriend also has difficulty in communicating effectively. So it might be that you hit the wrong note, and that gets to him; his response is defensive-aggressive; and then you are both in a spiral.

Have you a relationship worth saving? If you think you do, perhaps couples counselling might help.

Lux23

Maybe he just wants a bit of quiet time.

LegacyUser

whhoknows wrote: »

Honestly OP it's kind of hard to tell without exact examples of your bf''s behavior.

What examples do you want?

whhoknows wrote: »

At first glance my first thought is that I personally would find it extremely irritating if my own boyfriend kept nagging at me and asking me if I was okay just because I 'seemed distracted'. Sometimes you just need to have peace of mind to think things through by yourself. Not everyone deals with their worries by talking about them.

Which is why

emotionally frustrated wrote: »

Last night I asked him if he was OK because, throughout the day, sometimes he'd either not responded to me when I asked him things or said things.

This happened loads throughout the day and I didn't say anything throughout the day because I was trying to just deal with it. I'd headed upstairs earlier than him so I could journal. I only asked if he was ok once. Should I have waited a few days? If I'm in a mood and it's affecting how I interact with someone to the point that they're worried and I'm unable to respond in a way that placates them... Then that indicates that something is up to an extent that it cannot be hidden. He has mentioned suicide in the past and his friend died a year ago so I maybe worry too much.

Thanks for all the responses. Guess I'd better change my behaviour.

LegacyUser

emotionally confused wrote: »

What examples do you want?

in your original post you say you feel there are "issues" you can't discuss and "stuff" you have to put up with....what are these issues exactly? this stuff? your bf having a bad day or being in a bad mood once in a while isn't an "issue", everyone gets like that now and again, its a normal part of any relationship be it with partners, friends, family etc.

If I'm in a mood and it's affecting how I interact with someone to the point that they're worried and I'm unable to respond in a way that placates them... Then that indicates that something is up to an extent that it cannot be hidden. He has mentioned suicide in the past and his friend died a year ago so I maybe worry too much.

it is not your boyfriends duty to "placate" you. Hes perfectly entitled to have a bad day every once in a while without having to pretend to be in a good mood or being forced to reassure you constantly. There is a huge difference between being genuinely concerned about someone and nagging them incessantly, from what you've described it sounds like you are indulging in the latter.

Thanks for all the responses. Guess I'd better change my behaviour.

No offence Op but you do come across quite defensive and needy in your post/replies so perhaps you should examine why this is

LegacyUser

In my opinion, you are not seeing that you are behaving incredibly passive-aggressively to your boyfriend, and that it drives him nuts.

The last few lines of your last post should give you pointers of how not to come across to people (not just your boyfriend). It's a rotten way to behave towards others.

Big Bag of Chips

I think it might be a case that you are sometimes bitchy, or a bit passive aggressive as the previous poster mentioned - but then even when you genuinely are not, and you are genuinely asking a question out of concern, your bf can't tell the difference, so takes it up wrong, and takes it as you making a bitchy comment to him again.

The same phrase can mean 2 completely different things, depending on the tone, facial expression used when saying it. When I read "You can thank me when you're not throwing up tomorrow", I thought "WHY??? Why would you say something like that, when an atmosphere wasn't relaxed to begin with - to someone who had left food out, especially when you were just after making up after a row?"! it took me a few reads of it, to see where you might have been joking..

But if there was a bit of tension between you - and even if you had sorted out stuff upstairs, there would still be a little overhang for a while until everything thawed, saying that to him, just comes across as poking the fire!

Did you smile? Did you nudge him to let him know you were only slagging? Or did you just say it straight?

From your posts it comes across like you honestly don't think you are in the wrong. And I'm sure you are not 100% in the wrong. But your bf now has the impression that everything you say is a dig? So it's up to you both to figure out is it that he is too sensitive, is it that you are not sensitive enough - or is it a little bit of both.

LegacyUser

OP here

A few people have said that I'm repeating myself and nagging.
A) I have been in therapy and have been told that, if a doubt won't go away, it's best to question it directly rather than allow it to grow and fester.
I have talked about this with my boyfriend and he understood because
C) how else am I supposed to let him know that I'm there to listen if he wants to talk? His stipulation was that it not be too often. I don't think once in a 24hr period is too much.
D) I don't believe that so many people don't ask "you ok?" when their partner is looking or acting down. I have seen A LOT of people ask other people if they're ok for a little sigh to if they look away at the wrong moment to just because they were in another room for a few seconds. I have never seen anyone react with insisting that the asker is angry.
E) How is me asking him if he's ok equal to nagging but him telling me repeatedly that I'm angry an appropriate response and not nagging? And how can I not repeat myself to the same accusation? Of course I kept saying I wasn't angry; He kept insisting I was!

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I think it might be a case that you are sometimes bitchy, or a bit passive aggressive as the previous poster mentioned - but then even when you genuinely are not, and you are genuinely asking a question out of concern, your bf can't tell the difference, so takes it up wrong, and takes it as you making a bitchy comment to him again.

The same phrase can mean 2 completely different things, depending on the tone, facial expression used when saying it. When I read "You can thank me when you're not throwing up tomorrow", I thought "WHY??? Why would you say something like that, when an atmosphere wasn't relaxed to begin with - to someone who had left food out, especially when you were just after making up after a row?"! it took me a few reads of it, to see where you might have been joking..

But if there was a bit of tension between you - and even if you had sorted out stuff upstairs, there would still be a little overhang for a while until everything thawed, saying that to him, just comes across as poking the fire!

Did you smile? Did you nudge him to let him know you were only slagging? Or did you just say it straight?

From your posts it comes across like you honestly don't think you are in the wrong. And I'm sure you are not 100% in the wrong. But your bf now has the impression that everything you say is a dig? So it's up to you both to figure out is it that he is too sensitive, is it that you are not sensitive enough - or is it a little bit of both.

I was smiling when I said the throwing up thing. Thank you for getting that! This is the guy who offered to get me a rape cake on the anniversary of me being raped and that made me laugh on a very tough day. We have weird senses of humour. Usually. I can see now that my timing was off. And I hadn't considered him coming down an olive branch. I'm more literal and don't understand someone being angry with me and thinking me angry one minute, can suddenly be nice to me without a catch the next minute.

I don't know if his assuming that I'm making a dig is something that's evolved. Just after we'd first got together we had our first big fight. He'd asked me to get something out of one of his drawers and I found a pair of panties. At this point I was thinking, "Could be exes -best case scenario. Could be cross dresser - Um.... OK? Could be panty sniffer - eek!" So, I texted him saying I'd found some knickers. What's the story? He said they're my exes... "Yippee, I think we're in the category I want, just don't need them to masturbate." How come you still have them?" And then it went insane. I was over reacting, didn't trust him, he'd just forgotten to throw them out. All that was shouted at me. I tried to point out that I had the right to ask why he still had them and if he'd forgotten to throw them out it was fine. It was not fine. He was hurt and I expected him to be perfect. He jumped to a lot of assumptions about what was being said or implied (there was nothing implied. I had literally just asked those 2 questions to trigger that reaction and that was via text so no narky undertone/facial expression. Luckily he was in the pub and his friend's told him he was being an ass so he was sorry when I saw him but that's the only time he's said sorry for being defensive and our arguments seem to follow the same trajectory every time I raise something that's an issue for me.

ISSUES I HAVE RAISED
His friend who came to stay with us for 10 weeks, paid €40 for bills in that time, didn't bring a scrap of anything (food, linen, towels) and we ended up feeding him each night because it felt too rude to eat in front of him when he had no food.
That he should have told me that Xmas at his parents was a 4 day affair and not the 2 or 3 days I'd packed for very lightly. That was not a big issue for me but I regretted having a moan.
I once asked him to give me a hand with the rubbish (he doesn't do a lot around the house which is grand because he's working and I'm not). He got sulky but is very helpful now. And I only raised that once. The fight about me asking meant I was reluctant to ask again.
I wanted to go away for the weekend or a few days, he didn't want me to go without him. I felt that I'd cause a fight if I said I really felt I needed some time away sooner rather than later. He has taken holidays twice since then but we haven't got away yet. I wanted to go away in October. I have raised the issue twice since then (each time it was before his holidays started), offered to pay for a groupon in a hotel a county over and it's always been no. In fairness, we finally booked flights the other day! But, it's the fights that get to me. I was asking for something that I'd compromised on and he was reacting with this venom. He will ignore points and blow others out of proportion.
Last night he was shaving and asked me to check him. I pointed to a bit he missed and backed out of the bathroom when he reached for the shaver past me. He said, "o, you're not going to....." and trailed off. In the past when I've tried to help more than has been asked, I've been told off. "I thought you just wanted me to check for you but I can if you'd like?" and started back into the bathroom. "I said I was fine." This is the point that gets to me most; Should I respond to the original request that I hadn't picked up on or respect the most recent request ie the most recent information. Or the one I usually do, explain "I hadn't realised you wanted a hand shaving. I really would like to help if you'd still like?" And then it went downhill. "I don't need your help, I can see you have more important stuff to do." The difference here is that he did text me apologising for throwing the clippers on the bed later. No, I hadn't complained that he had.

whhoknows wrote: »

in your original post you say you feel there are "issues" you can't discuss and "stuff" you have to put up with....what are these issues exactly? this stuff? your bf having a bad day or being in a bad mood once in a while isn't an "issue", everyone gets like that now and again, its a normal part of any relationship be it with partners, friends, family etc.



it is not your boyfriends duty to "placate" you. Hes perfectly entitled to have a bad day every once in a while without having to pretend to be in a good mood or being forced to reassure you constantly. There is a huge difference between being genuinely concerned about someone and nagging them incessantly, from what you've described it sounds like you are indulging in the latter.



No offence Op but you do come across quite defensive and needy in your post/replies so perhaps you should examine why this is

I'm posting in personal issues! Yes, I am needy. I am feeling insecure and like I have no control over my life. That probably is irrational and I'm here to explore it and find a way to deal with it. I feel like I don't have the strength to fight within these rules and have no idea HOW I should respond. To me, nothing I say changes the (what seems to me) intense reactions. Nothing that hurts me that I try to raise with him hurts as much as the dismissal of the issue and the b0ll0ck!ng I get for saying it,no matter how reasonably I try to raise it. What am I not seeing!?!? How can I raise an issue (see first paragraph of this post) without it turning into an insane fight about whether or not I'm angry?! Or wanting him to be perfect?

I have also listed some of the issues I have raised in the past. All have turned into fights. None of them were about anything as trivial as a bad mood.

People keep saying I'm being passive-aggressive. Where do you see this? I am asking because I don't see.

I don't expect him to placate me, just answer a question honestly. If he feels low and doesn't want to talk, that's ok. Just let me know. I won't know if he doesn't tell me. I ask a question because I don't know the answer.

Merkin

Do you actually get on with your boyfriend or are you spending the time fighting? I still think there are massive communication issues on both parts. I also think you should explore the issue of returning to therapy. It seems that there's an awful lot going on in your head and perhaps offloading to someone in a professional capacity could help as the issues seem varied and complex.

ViveLaVie

How long are ye going out OP? I ask because it doesn't sound like the relationship is any fun tbh. It sounds like you are both irritated by and frustrated with each-other and unhappy in the relationship.

LegacyUser

You've given a lot of new information and raised some interesting points OP - it sounds to me that maybe non-verbal communication is an issue for you, that perhaps you aren't picking up on his frustration with how you approach things until it spills over into a row.

It's good to say things rather than letting them fester, but the nuances of how things are said is important. And sometimes saying things too quickly and not letting anything slide can lead to someone feeling a bit attacked.

I guess a good gauge would be whether you have the same issues with people other than your BF; although we often feel freer to say things differently to those close to us than colleagues or friends.

It can be hard for those who aren't of a very literal frame of mind to deal with those who are. It's possible that you both just have a fundamentally different communication style that is incompatible.

Big Bag of Chips

I think you just don't 'get' each other. I'm with my husband 13 years, and if he's in a bad mood or not particularly chatty... I leave him too it. If I'm annoyed or pissed off with something the last thing I want is someone asking me what's wrong! If I am upset and want to talk about it, I'll talk about it. If I don't want to talk about it, then I don't want someone asking me!

People aren't necessarily reasonable when they are in a bad mood, so someone asking an innocent "What's wrong?" can be met with an annoyed "nothing". Which can then lead the other person to feeling that THEY are the one who caused the mood/upset. They then push to find out what they've done wrong, which annoys the other person more because they are just in a bad mood.. not necessarily because of their bf/gf!

I think you might just need to get better at reading each other, the non-verbal communication as mentioned above.