Points against UK license never get removed?

Gwynston

Just re-read the small print on a Penalty Points Endorsement Notification I got a few months ago. I have a UK license, so I didn't get points physically added. Instead, the letter says the following:

"2 penalty points have been endorsed on the entry in the license record relating to you"

But it then goes on to say:

"these points will remain on the entry for a period of three years from;-
first day of holding a new license"

That bold part looks like it's in a place in the text where alternatives can be substituted. I presume it usually says something like "the date of the offence".

But it seems from the text I got, that the 2 points will stay until 3 years after I ever apply for an Irish license? Will I have to always declare those points forever more when buying insurance (potentially costing me more)?

That's rather unfair compared to Irish license holders who will lose the points after 3 years!

bigboss1986

Gwynston wrote: »

Just re-read the small print on a Penalty Points Endorsement Notification I got a few months ago. I have a UK license, so I didn't get points physically added. Instead, the letter says the following:

"2 penalty points have been endorsed on the entry in the license record relating to you"

But it then goes on to say:

"these points will remain on the entry for a period of three years from;-
first day of holding a new license"

That bold part looks like it's in a place in the text where alternatives can be substituted. I presume it usually says something like "the date of the offence".

But it seems from the text I got, that the 2 points will stay until 3 years after I ever apply for an Irish license? Will I have to always declare those points forever more when buying insurance (potentially costing me more)?

That's rather unfair compared to Irish license holders who will lose the points after 3 years!

Ive got 4 points in 2009 at the time I had Polish licence.In november I exchanged my Polish licence to Irish one wich arrived week ago.I bought insurance policy with Aviva and they need it my licence nr to confirm points etc and ...I have 0 they expired in 2012.
Relax and dont worry

challengemaster

Gwynston wrote: »

But it seems from the text I got, that the 2 points will stay until 3 years after I ever apply for an Irish license? Will I have to always declare those points forever more when buying insurance (potentially costing me more)?

That's rather unfair compared to Irish license holders who will lose the points after 3 years!

Thats correct.

It's because points can only be applied to an Irish license. Hence if you ever apply for an Irish license, you will then recieve the points. Until that time (which will probably never come), you effectively don't have any points.

Your UK license is unaffected. As you technically don't have points, you don't have to declare them.

bigboss1986

challengemaster wrote: »

Thats correct.

It's because points can only be applied to an Irish license. Hence if you ever apply for an Irish license, you will then recieve the points. Until that time (which will probably never come), you effectively don't have any points.

Your UK license is unaffected. As you technically don't have points, you don't have to declare them.

I rang RSA 2 minutes ago and they confirmed that I have 0 points.So does it only apply to UK licence?

Gwynston

challengemaster wrote: »

Hence if you ever apply for an Irish license, you will then recieve the points. Until that time (which will probably never come), you effectively don't have any points.

But I have 2 points against "the entry in the license record relating to" me, so I have to declare that to my insurance company.

Will I have to keep doing so until I actually have had an Irish license for 3 years, at which time, they'll be taken off?

I hadn't really planned on ever getting an Irish license, despite living here for 13 years, because I passed my test in the UK so long ago (1986) that I have an old-fashioned license which is valid until the year 2038 without ever needing renewing or anything...

Gwynston

bigboss1986 wrote: »

I rang RSA 2 minutes ago and they confirmed that I have 0 points.So does it only apply to UK licence?

I'm not sure. Maybe it depends on the wording in your notice from 2009.

It might not have said the same thing as mine.

challengemaster

bigboss1986 wrote: »

I rang RSA 2 minutes ago and they confirmed that I have 0 points.So does it only apply to UK licence?

I actually have no idea. Someone else might.

Gwynston wrote: »

But I have 2 points against "the entry in the license record relating to" me, so I have to declare that to my insurance company.

It's a "ghost license" record. Your UK license, which is currently the only license you hold, has no points.

You don't have any points to declare.

You're not the first person with a UK license to evade getting any real penalty points like this, you won't be the last either. It's pretty commonly known.

Gwynston

challengemaster wrote: »

You don't have any points to declare.

But surely when the insurance company asks me the question, "have you been convicted of any motoring offence, or have any points", I have to reply yes?

Otherwise, if I make a claim and they check my details with the RSA, they would be informed of my endorsement and find out I hadn't declared it.

challengemaster

No.

Your UK license has no points.

You do not have any other license. It is a "ghost license", essentially a record for the points to be stored on should you ever obtain an Irish license. In the case you ever do, then the points get applied.

If you never get an Irish license - you never get the points. Points from Ireland can not be applied to foreign licenses, hence why these "records" or ghost licenses are made to store the points.

ardmacha

But surely when the insurance company asks me the question, "have you been convicted of any motoring offence, or have any points", I have to reply yes?

The question ask if you have any points, not your UK licence, so if you have points then it would be fraud to deny them.

challengemaster

ardmacha wrote: »

The question ask if you have any points, not your UK licence, so if you have points then it would be fraud to deny them.

Points can only be applied to an Irish license. Until the OP gets an Irish license, the points do not exist.

He has no points.

Gwynston

ardmacha wrote: »

The question ask if you have any points, not your UK licence, so if you have points then it would be fraud to deny them.

Yes, that's the way I understood it.

I just checked with my insurance company, and she seemed to know about the concept of "points endorded on my license record", so it's clearly something they take on board for UK license holders.

And then she charged me €41 for telling her because my original incurance premium had included a discount for having no points!

Doh!

hi5

The same here, paid the €80 euros but don't get points.

This is the reason some insurance companies load foreign licences, because they can't load you for points you might have otherwise accumulated had you an Irish licence.

Gwynston

So I called the RSA for clarification and didn't manage to get a very definitive answer....

She did definitely say however that "it's a bit of a grey area to be honest"

She kind of agreed with both bigboss986 and challengemaster by saying that on one hand the points don't really exist, but I should still tell my insurance company about having had a driving endorsement.

While on the other hand she said that, despite what my notice says, in more than 3 years time there's no way they could realistically still hold the 2 points against me, and so there would be no need to still declare anything after that time when buying insurance.

So, clear as mud! :rolleyes:

corktina

you don't have any points on your Irish license until such time as you get one. You would not have to declare UK points...stop worrying, the RSA say you've no points, that's all that counts.

Gwynston

hi5 wrote: »

This is the reason some insurance companies load foreign licences, because they can't load you for points you might have otherwise accumulated had you an Irish licence.

I think they tend to treat UK licenses rather more favourably though, obviously because of the amount of cross-border movement in the North.

By which I mean:
The section in my insurance doc that declares my personal details (and the things I qualify for) includes a line which reads "Full Irish or UK license" with a tick next to it. So I guess other countries wouldn't qualify for the same benefits as I do for having that box ticked?

Gwynston

corktina wrote: »

you don't have any points on your Irish license until such time as you get one. You would not have to declare UK points...stop worrying, the RSA say you've no points, that's all that counts.

But I still need to inform my insurance company about having had an endorsement, which costs me more. My real question therefore is, for how long to I need to tell them?

I guess that's depends specifically on the insurance company....