The Original Things Atheists Can't Do.

AerynSun

There's an interesting article on the Huffington Post's Politics Blog, that highlights the ways atheism is a hidden inequality issue - worth having a read! It's focused on the situation in the US, but some of it could well be relevant for atheists in Ireland?

What say the people of A&A? Have you experienced any of the listed inequalities as a result of your beliefs (or lack thereof, as the case may be)?

EDIT: I'm asking mainly because as a recently-Catholic-now-agnostic, I have a feeling I'm in for a bumpy ride... getting the hang of being 'outside' of the religious fold! What kind of stuff should I expect?

lazygal

School is the big one for us. A perfectly good taxpayer funded school with all mod cons is literally two minutes from our doorstep but is Catholic and while a good school in most respects has the kids doing indoctrination during school hours. We'll get a place there if we want but what'll our children do during preparation for communion/confirmation? Do we let them do the nativity play every other child will be in? What do we do if the parish priest calls in for a chat? What do they do during the indoctrination portions of the day? These are all things we wouldn't even have to consider if we were believers.


Also state marriage ceremonies are only Monday to Friday. If you want a civil ceremony in Ireland you can't have one on weekends. This doesn't sound like a hassle but it is. If you want to get married in a church, no problem! Come on down, even if you're as a la carte as they come. At least now there's the option of a legal humanist ceremony (we had to do our legal and humanist ones on different days).

There's also the whole oath taking malarky required of judges and the president - I also remember seeing a row of new gardaí all holding bibles. And the prayers that many county councils engage in and Dail and Seanad prayers on the opening of the session of parliament.

AerynSun

State marriage ceremonies only during the week... whaaa? Kinda seems to me like most people would want their wedding at the weekend, and surely the state should accommodate that?

Kivaro

Yeah, but think of all the things we CAN do because we don't believe in God ....

bumper234

Kivaro wrote: »

Yeah, but think of all the things we CAN do because we don't believe in God ....

Sinners are winners

AerynSun

Kivaro wrote: »

Yeah, but think of all the things we CAN do because we don't believe in God ....

And happy days for those bits

I'm just trying to get a better insight into the things that religious people don't even think about... that impact the lives of people who aren't religious. Kinda the way Peggy McIntosh wrote 'White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack' to help white people understand how racism affects their lives: the 'advantages' that white people have without even knowing about them.

Until now, I've had 'religious privilege', so I don't know yet what walls I'm going to run up against now that I don't have that anymore...

bumper234

AerynSun wrote: »

And happy days for those bits

I'm just trying to get a better insight into the things that religious people don't even think about... that impact the lives of people who aren't religious. Kinda the way Peggy McIntosh wrote 'White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack' to help white people understand how racism affects their lives: the 'advantages' that white people have without even knowing about them.

Until now, I've had 'religious privilege', so I don't know yet what walls I'm going to run up against now that I don't have that anymore...

Have been an atheist all my life and I've never ran into any problems or faced any issues over my beliefs.

AerynSun

bumper234 wrote: »

Have been an atheist all my life and I've never ran into any problems or faced any issues over my beliefs.

Glad to hear that... fingers crossed I'll have a similar experience (bar the religious people who knew me as a religious person, trying to convince me that I'm wrong to have made the switch, of course).

A. Rasher

"Are you really the head of the Kwik-E-Mart?"

Gordon

I can't enjoy being blown away by magic/illusion as much as some of my religious friends can I'm always looking to figure out how they do the tricks.

bumper234

As an atheist I cannot stone a woman to death if she has been with a man, I also wouldn't be able to rape a woman and force her to marry me as the bible says.

Thank **** for atheism.

bumper234

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

But how can you have morals without religion? It's unpossible :mad:




:pac:

But recent years have proven that some religious people have no morals, so you can't have morals without religion but with religion there is a chance you will have even less morals than a non religious person

iguana

delaad wrote: »

No doubt its been done,...... but they can't imitate Miley and go "Ah, Holy God"

Though of course Lally was an atheist.

On topic, the schools issue seems to be the biggest issue in this country. I'm house-hunting for a family home now and I'm so torn about whether I should buy in the area I actually really want to live in or the area near the ET school my son will be attending. I hate the thought of a car commute being a necessary part of his school day but not as much as I hate the thought of sending him to a religiously run school. I know how religion in school can get under the skin of a child and I won't subject him to that. I also wish he could live in the same neighbourhood as his schoolmates but that's not a runner even if we do live near the school he will be attending as it's a city centre school which has pupil intake from a huge radius. So no matter where we live he'll always be that bit different from the neighbourhood kids which has potential to effect any friendships negatively, while friendships with school friends will be limited to school or pre-organised playdates :vom: .

smacl

iguana wrote: »

house-hunting for a family home now and I'm so torn about whether I should buy in the area I actually really want to live in or the area near the ET school my son will be attending.

We had pretty much the same issue, in that we moved from the south city to further out, but kept our kids in the ET school they were in as they were very happy there. Not ideal; earlier wake ups in the morning and organised play dates rather than spontaneous ones. The kids are very happy though, and there's no telling whether or not they would be if we'd done it any different. That said, my eldest decided to go to a Catholic girls school, and gets on fine, though religious indoctrination would be more of a concern at a younger more formative age.

We moved out of the city centre as we didn't think it was great for kids, and also to get somewhere with big parks in walking distance and a larger garden. Wherever you move to, there's usually going to be some compromises.

robindch

iguana wrote: »

On topic, the schools issue seems to be the biggest issue in this country. I'm house-hunting for a family home now and I'm so torn about whether I should buy in the area I actually really want to live in or the area near the ET school my son will be attending. I hate the thought of a car commute being a necessary part of his school day but not as much as I hate the thought of sending him to a religiously run school.

I was in exactly the same position a few years back and after a good deal of weighing up of options, decided that the 10km school run was the lesser of two evils.

Snowflake's in first class now and I can honestly say that I haven't doubted, even for a moment, that it was the right decision.

iguana

robindch wrote: »

I was in exactly the same position a few years back and after a good deal of weighing up of options, decided that the 10km school run was the lesser of two evils.

He definitely won't be going to an NS school. I used to have quite a few sleepless nights as a kid worried that my agnostic Dad would go to hell for not believing in Jesus after my 2nd class teacher repeatedly told us that's what happens to those who reject Christ. I won't be taking the risk of my son feeling anything similar if I can help it. It's just that the residential areas near the ET school are either unsuitable for families or the most expensive in the city. In my preferred area there are two primaries a short walk away from the houses I'm looking at and three more a slightly longer walk away but four are Catholic and the fifth is CoI.

It's just very frustrating trying to decide whether I should be prioritising a decent house and garden with extended family nearby or the stress reduction and freedom of being able to walk to school, when you are surrounded by schools made unsuitable by religion. I was prioritising the latter until it occurred to me that very few, if any, of the other pupils in the ET school would actually live near the school either. No matter where we live, he won't be able to walk home with his classmates and play impromptu games with them after school. So despite my constant second guessing, I've decided to concentrate on my preferred area and accept the commute .

Faz6r

they cant get abused by pedophile priests while serving as altar boys

pinkypinky

Something that bugs me is the giving evidence in court, must swear on bible thing. Now, to be clear, I understand that I can swear on the constitution but I have never seen anyone do this, or be given any option. I've had to give evidence in court and felt that it would somehow prejudice my evidence if I refused to swear on the bible*. How has anyone else gotten around this?


*Of course, this did not change my evidence a jot.

Cabaal

pinkypinky wrote: »

Something that bugs me is the giving evidence in court, must swear on bible thing. Now, to be clear, I understand that I can swear on the constitution but I have never seen anyone do this, or be given any option. I've had to give evidence in court and felt that it would somehow prejudice my evidence if I refused to swear on the bible*. How has anyone else gotten around this?


*Of course, this did not change my evidence a jot.

You don't have to swear on the bible,

pinkypinky

No I understand don't have to but in practical terms, I've never seen anyone be given the other option. I just read the other thread about jury duty where this has come up.

Turtwig

Thread cleaned. Any further er, whatever that was, will be deleted. Cards possible too.

Hotblack Desiato

pinkypinky wrote: »

No I understand don't have to but in practical terms, I've never seen anyone be given the other option. I just read the other thread about jury duty where this has come up.

You're not given the option you have to ask for it.
You will be asked to swear, you can then request to affirm, which is what I did when I was on a jury.

TheChizler

Ah I think it was this thread I should have been following... This forum needs better detour signage!

Turtwig

TheChizler wrote: »

Ah I think it was this thread I should have been following... This forum needs better detour signage!

That would defeat the purpose though. This forum is meant to spontaneous. You understand bro?

Peregrinus

pinkypinky wrote: »

No I understand don't have to but in practical terms, I've never seen anyone be given the other option. I just read the other thread about jury duty where this has come up.

I've seen it - as in, I've seen people in court making a (non-religious) affirmation. It's not a drama. It goes like this:

Judge: Now, Mr X, if you'd just like to go into the witness stand the clerk will administer the oath to you.

Mr X: May I affirm?

Judge: Certainly.

Clerk: Repeat after me: "I do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that the evidence which I shall give . . . "

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Do you think many jurors would be inclined to think less of a person who affirms?

Peregrinus

I do not think that.

But I have little data, because what jurors think is not something that is publicly know or studied in any organised way. All I can say is that over the years I've heard lots of anecdotal stuff about what goes in in jury rooms, and a good deal of speculation from trial lawyers about what has or has not influenced jury decisions in various cases, and this is not something that comes up very often, as either anecdote or as speculation. That's not to say that it has never happened, but do "many jurors" think like this? I'm fairly confident that they don't.

(PS: For what it's worth, the great bulk of witness evidence is given before a judge alone. It's only a small minority of trial that have juries nowadays. So judicial bias (perish the thought!) would be the problem in practice, rather than juror bias.)