Calf House

Donnacadh

Lads, don't know if mentioned before, couldn't find anything, but thinking of buying a few drop calves in just putting in a loose pen. I have one in corner of hayshed, about 10Foot by 18 foot. Anybody any experience of this? its my first time with the calves and didn't want to have to start in building individual pens.

Is handy enough to feed them when they are loose? any hints/tips be appreciated lads

bbam

Donnacadh wrote: »

Lads, don't know if mentioned before, couldn't find anything, but thinking of buying a few drop calves in just putting in a loose pen. I have one in corner of hayshed, about 10Foot by 18 foot. Anybody any experience of this? its my first time with the calves and didn't want to have to start in building individual pens.

Is handy enough to feed them when they are loose? any hints/tips be appreciated lads

It can be a tough business..
Calves are very fickle creatures and there is alot that can go wrong...quickly

Penned in groups is good, if even preferable. 6-8 with a 10 teat feeder is comfortable going..

There have been plenty of threads on this already with some great stuff in them...you should search them out. the teagasc website has some great articles on best practice..

My top tips:

• Buy direct from farms if at all possible
• Get calves close to each others ages
• Don't just assume the dearest milk replacer is the best
• Max one bag of milk replacer per calf. 6-7 weeks on the bucket
• Plenty of calf crunch available from day 1, in the early weeks change it for fresh feed every day.
• Calves can be weaned off milk once eating 1kg of meal and drinking water freely.
• Only disbud calves that are bright looking and feeding well
• Plenty of water available from day 1, calves dislike stale water so I find best to clean it out daily. this increases intake.
• Pleny of straw under them and in feeders, barley straw.
• Watch them like a hawk, drooped ears, arched back, sunken eyes, tail between legs or lack of appetite are the big tells on their health. also a healthy calf will stretch when you put him up.
• Have a thermometer at hand, and know how to use it.
• Have an isolation pen ready with heat lamp ready to switch on. It needs a single milk feeder and water source too.
• Have a method of heating water close to calves, water is heavy stuff to carry far.
• Cheap drill and skimcoat mixer is the best way to mix.
• Try and time their purchase so they can go out doors to grass after the 7 weeks. This minimises time in the shed thus minimising disease risk.
• Use the knee test on bedding, if you kneel down and your knee gets wet then you need more bedding.
• The shed should be airy without draughts, not easy in old buildings.
• Have electrolytes at hand ready to mix.
• Never feed them hay in feeders, only straw
• With any sick calf, scour or anything, continue to feed milk along with treating, only if vet advises withdraw milk, don't listen to any other rubbish on this, they need feeding or they die quickly !
• Practice "the tent test" on their skin when healthy, its a great indicator of dehydration in a sick calf.

This is our first year not rearing sucks and I'll miss it.
I thnink good animals are way overpriced and work changes would make it harder.

theaceofspies

bbam wrote: »

It can be a tough business..
Calves are very fickle creatures and there is alot that can go wrong...quickly

Penned in groups is good, if even preferable. 6-8 with a 10 teat feeder is comfortable going..

There have been plenty of threads on this already with some great stuff in them...you should search them out. the teagasc website has some great articles on best practice..

My top tips:

• Buy direct from farms if at all possible
• Get calves close to each others ages
• Don't just assume the dearest milk replacer is the best
• Max one bag of milk replacer per calf. 6-7 weeks on the bucket
• Plenty of calf crunch available from day 1, in the early weeks change it for fresh feed every day.
• Calves can be weaned off milk once eating 1kg of meal and drinking water freely.
• Only disbud calves that are bright looking and feeding well
• Plenty of water available from day 1, calves dislike stale water so I find best to clean it out daily. this increases intake.
• Pleny of straw under them and in feeders, barley straw.
• Watch them like a hawk, drooped ears, arched back, sunken eyes, tail between legs or lack of appetite are the big tells on their health. also a healthy calf will stretch when you put him up.
• Have a thermometer at hand, and know how to use it.
• Have an isolation pen ready with heat lamp ready to switch on. It needs a single milk feeder and water source too.
• Have a method of heating water close to calves, water is heavy stuff to carry far.
• Cheap drill and skimcoat mixer is the best way to mix.
• Try and time their purchase so they can go out doors to grass after the 7 weeks. This minimises time in the shed thus minimising disease risk.
• Use the knee test on bedding, if you kneel down and your knee gets wet then you need more bedding.
• The shed should be airy without draughts, not easy in old buildings.
• Have electrolytes at hand ready to mix.
• Never feed them hay in feeders, only straw
• With any sick calf, scour or anything, continue to feed milk along with treating, only if vet advises withdraw milk, don't listen to any other rubbish on this, they need feeding or they die quickly !
• Practice "the tent test" on their skin when healthy, its a great indicator of dehydration in a sick calf.

This is our first year not rearing sucks and I'll miss it.
I thnink good animals are way overpriced and work changes would make it harder.

Real good/practical advice there. I think experience is a big factor as well.

theaceofspies

Hygiene is critical as well. A good clean down with dis-infectant before putting calves in.

Deepsouthwest

bbam wrote: »

It can be a tough business..
Calves are very fickle creatures and there is alot that can go wrong...quickly

Penned in groups is good, if even preferable. 6-8 with a 10 teat feeder is comfortable going..

There have been plenty of threads on this already with some great stuff in them...you should search them out. the teagasc website has some great articles on best practice..

My top tips:

• Buy direct from farms if at all possible
• Get calves close to each others ages
• Don't just assume the dearest milk replacer is the best
• Max one bag of milk replacer per calf. 6-7 weeks on the bucket
• Plenty of calf crunch available from day 1, in the early weeks change it for fresh feed every day.
• Calves can be weaned off milk once eating 1kg of meal and drinking water freely.
• Only disbud calves that are bright looking and feeding well
• Plenty of water available from day 1, calves dislike stale water so I find best to clean it out daily. this increases intake.
• Pleny of straw under them and in feeders, barley straw.
• Watch them like a hawk, drooped ears, arched back, sunken eyes, tail between legs or lack of appetite are the big tells on their health. also a healthy calf will stretch when you put him up.
• Have a thermometer at hand, and know how to use it.
• Have an isolation pen ready with heat lamp ready to switch on. It needs a single milk feeder and water source too.
• Have a method of heating water close to calves, water is heavy stuff to carry far.
• Cheap drill and skimcoat mixer is the best way to mix.
• Try and time their purchase so they can go out doors to grass after the 7 weeks. This minimises time in the shed thus minimising disease risk.
• Use the knee test on bedding, if you kneel down and your knee gets wet then you need more bedding.
• The shed should be airy without draughts, not easy in old buildings.
• Have electrolytes at hand ready to mix.
• Never feed them hay in feeders, only straw
• With any sick calf, scour or anything, continue to feed milk along with treating, only if vet advises withdraw milk, don't listen to any other rubbish on this, they need feeding or they die quickly !
• Practice "the tent test" on their skin when healthy, its a great indicator of dehydration in a sick calf.

This is our first year not rearing sucks and I'll miss it.
I thnink good animals are way overpriced and work changes would make it harder.

+1 on all that. A guy could do a lot worse than having that as his calf rearing checklist

Donnacadh

Thanks for the replies, especially bbam, wasn't expecting anything so detailed, thanks for taking the time.

You know its a recurring theme with calves when you talk to men, be ready for heartache, scour, not taking to feeding etc

I definitley agree about being overpriced, I have always got a rake of lumps/weanlings in the spring and sold at back end and made modest sums, but the price you buy the lumps at you wonder how the man selling is getting a turn at all

Out of interest what breed would you go for (apart from fresians obviously)

farmerjj

bbam wrote: »

It can be a tough business..
Calves are very fickle creatures and there is alot that can go wrong...quickly

Penned in groups is good, if even preferable. 6-8 with a 10 teat feeder is comfortable going..

There have been plenty of threads on this already with some great stuff in them...you should search them out. the teagasc website has some great articles on best practice..

My top tips:

• Buy direct from farms if at all possible
• Get calves close to each others ages
• Don't just assume the dearest milk replacer is the best
• Max one bag of milk replacer per calf. 6-7 weeks on the bucket
• Plenty of calf crunch available from day 1, in the early weeks change it for fresh feed every day.
• Calves can be weaned off milk once eating 1kg of meal and drinking water freely.
• Only disbud calves that are bright looking and feeding well
• Plenty of water available from day 1, calves dislike stale water so I find best to clean it out daily. this increases intake.
• Pleny of straw under them and in feeders, barley straw.
• Watch them like a hawk, drooped ears, arched back, sunken eyes, tail between legs or lack of appetite are the big tells on their health. also a healthy calf will stretch when you put him up.
• Have a thermometer at hand, and know how to use it.
• Have an isolation pen ready with heat lamp ready to switch on. It needs a single milk feeder and water source too.
• Have a method of heating water close to calves, water is heavy stuff to carry far.
• Cheap drill and skimcoat mixer is the best way to mix.
• Try and time their purchase so they can go out doors to grass after the 7 weeks. This minimises time in the shed thus minimising disease risk.
• Use the knee test on bedding, if you kneel down and your knee gets wet then you need more bedding.
• The shed should be airy without draughts, not easy in old buildings.
• Have electrolytes at hand ready to mix.
• Never feed them hay in feeders, only straw
• With any sick calf, scour or anything, continue to feed milk along with treating, only if vet advises withdraw milk, don't listen to any other rubbish on this, they need feeding or they die quickly !
• Practice "the tent test" on their skin when healthy, its a great indicator of dehydration in a sick calf.

This is our first year not rearing sucks and I'll miss it.
I thnink good animals are way overpriced and work changes would make it harder.

just one question why not feed hay??

dzer2

Just on Bbams list observe the milk feeding closely in the first 3 weeks too much milk can cause illness as well.

Viewtodiefor

farmerjj wrote: »

just one question why not feed hay??

Was wondering that myself?

F.D

farmerjj wrote: »

just one question why not feed hay??

Tends to leave them pot bellied, especially if they take a fancy to the hay over meal its very hard to get them right come weaning, also hay can be very dusty and cause other problems
Good straw is way better and the go for the meal a lot quicker i find

jay gatsby

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Was wondering that myself?

There is a widely held view that hay causes calves to develop bellies and that straw is a better source of roughage for them.

Edit. F.D in ahead of me

bbam

Straw is way more preferable to hay.. sucks are born to drink milk and need to develop the ability in the Rumen to eat solids. the only way to develop the Rumen (to my limited knowledge) is roughage, good clean palatable barley straw is very attractive to calves, they eat it freely and the high roughage content stretches and builds up the walls of the Rumen.
Hay will do a similar job... but you need to limit it or they develop pot bellies, not sure why - they just do. but they can have adlib straw and it doesnt..

My experience is that a little more milk does no good nor harm.. A healthy calf drinking properly mixed and measured milk won't scour if he has a bit more milk, I've not seen it.. the bigger problem could be that if your feeding 2l a head per feed and he's getting 3l.... who is only getting 1l, thats the problem. Over feeding calves or feeding calves milk for longer than 7-8 weeks is a waste, I ran a wee trial myself and found that by 1 year it made no difference.

Good points on the clenliness, wash troughs out well after feeds and don't let birds ****e in them..

Regarding mixing milk... follow the instructions !!
Example:
some milk will say, add x powder to 2l of hot water and mix well.
other will say, use x powder and make the mix up to 2l mixing well.

Its important to get this right.. if you do them the other way round you can make the feed up 15% too strong or weak. Too strong is when you get nutritional scours, and while a nutritional scour is no real harm in its self its a gateway for other problems, dehydration and what not.. too weak and calves don't grow.
You should never see clots of milk after mixing... these will also cause nutritional scour.

bbam

As for what breeds...
Fr bulls can be a good buy, but the market is a bit pear shaped at the moment so maybe not..
AAx- I've given up on them to be honest. In recent years they seem to be getting smaller and runts, only 1 in 4/5 turn out to be a dood framed calf. I think the straws being used are only focused on easy calving for heifers and so very small.
LM/CHx great if you can get them at a price... but you see them making €500 as sucks, its to much.

So if I were buying I'd be looking at HEx kinda multipurpose really, I've sold lots to lads for suckler replacments and with the premium they go well anyway. Price is the killer. €275 is enough for a good HEx calf, lads here are looking €374/400 ex farm.

Deepsouthwest

Donnacadh wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, especially bbam, wasn't expecting anything so detailed, thanks for taking the time.

You know its a recurring theme with calves when you talk to men, be ready for heartache, scour, not taking to feeding etc

I definitley agree about being overpriced, I have always got a rake of lumps/weanlings in the spring and sold at back end and made modest sums, but the price you buy the lumps at you wonder how the man selling is getting a turn at all

Out of interest what breed would you go for (apart from fresians obviously)

I probably agree with buying Herefords, although not at the prices they're making at the moment. Wait one month and prices will be back €100 a head, v predictable, but happens every yr a when the glut of calves hits the market

PatQfarmer

bbam wrote: »

It can be a tough business..
Calves are very fickle creatures and there is alot that can go wrong...quickly

This is our first year not rearing sucks and I'll miss it.
I thnink good animals are way overpriced and work changes would make it harder.

You and me both, bbam. Been rearing for years, Autumn and Spring. Did last rearing in Autumn 2012, none in 2013 and don't see me doing any in 2014.
Miss it too. Something about rearing calves...
They are too dear to warrant the work, when weanlings/yearlings are the price they are.
Heard reports of 2-3 week old HFRD Hfrs making €350-400!
I can't work at those sums.
This year, I hope to buy when the superlevy lads have them reared for me:rolleyes:

hugo29

bbam wrote: »

Straw is way more preferable to hay.. sucks are born to drink milk and need to develop the ability in the Rumen to eat solids. the only way to develop the Rumen (to my limited knowledge) is roughage, good clean palatable barley straw is very attractive to calves, they eat it freely and the high roughage content stretches and builds up the walls of the Rumen.
Hay will do a similar job... but you need to limit it or they develop pot bellies, not sure why - they just do. but they can have adlib straw and it doesnt..

My experience is that a little more milk does no good nor harm.. A healthy calf drinking properly mixed and measured milk won't scour if he has a bit more milk, I've not seen it.. the bigger problem could be that if your feeding 2l a head per feed and he's getting 3l.... who is only getting 1l, thats the problem. Over feeding calves or feeding calves milk for longer than 7-8 weeks is a waste, I ran a wee trial myself and found that by 1 year it made no difference.

Good points on the clenliness, wash troughs out well after feeds and don't let birds ****e in them..

Regarding mixing milk... follow the instructions !!
Example:
some milk will say, add x powder to 2l of hot water and mix well.
other will say, use x powder and make the mix up to 2l mixing well.

Its important to get this right.. if you do them the other way round you can make the feed up 15% too strong or weak. Too strong is when you get nutritional scours, and while a nutritional scour is no real harm in its self its a gateway for other problems, dehydration and what not.. too weak and calves don't grow.
You should never see clots of milk after mixing... these will also cause nutritional scour.

great article BBAM and fair play for taking the time to set it out, the hay one was interesting and not one i have come across, usually put some hay in the creep at the back for the calves to keep them off the slats but might cjange to straw this year

did any of the lads come back to you about the HEX cross heifers as to how they faired as replacements

bbam

hugo29 wrote: »

great article BBAM and fair play for taking the time to set it out, the hay one was interesting and not one i have come across, usually put some hay in the creep at the back for the calves to keep them off the slats but might cjange to straw this year

did any of the lads come back to you about the HEX cross heifers as to how they faired as replacements

Yes.
One lad bought replacements three years running. Was happy with them. He was using an easy calving LM bull on them. I never saw his weanlings but he seemed happy, but he was finishing.

hugo29

bbam wrote: »

Yes.
One lad bought replacements three years running. Was happy with them. He was using an easy calving LM bull on them. I never saw his weanlings but he seemed happy, but he was finishing.

Have a nice HExSIM heifer bulled to HCA this year