Garda fine

Canyon86 · 22-01-2014 6:45pm #1

I was having an argument with another lad,

Garda told me to leave the scene , I did!

Got a letter in the door with a fine for drunk and disorderly!

At no stage was my name tAken by the garda.

Anybody any suggestions what I should do??

Peppa Pig · 22-01-2014 7:43pm

Pay the fine

Pro Hoc Vice · 22-01-2014 7:43pm

Pay the fixed penalty notice or fight the case your choice.

EireGun · 22-01-2014 7:47pm

Inquire as to how they got your name, play the Data Protection Commissioner card, that usually works when the Gardai get your details from a third party or someone else get's your name from them.

Pro Hoc Vice · 22-01-2014 7:56pm

EireGun wrote: »

Inquire as to how they got your name, play the Data Protection Commissioner card, that usually works when the Gardai get your details from a third party or someone else get's your name from them.

So you are saying data protection will allow or force a witness to a crime to refuse/not be able to give details of the perpetrator, to an investigating officer. The Garda may have know the OP, the Garda may have asked other people or maybe a person who refused to move on gave a false name and address, don't think data protection has anything todo with it.

Fred Swanson · 22-01-2014 8:02pm

This post has been deleted.

harbourmill · 22-01-2014 8:21pm

Pay the fine, it does not matter how the garda got your name. you say it was for drunk and disorderly , and you are not disputing the fact that alcohol was involved. it may be that you do not have a clear recollection of what transpired during the arguement , or how loud ye actually were.

EireGun · 22-01-2014 8:47pm

infosys wrote: »

So you are saying data protection will allow or force a witness to a crime to refuse/not be able to give details of the perpetrator, to an investigating officer. The Garda may have know the OP, the Garda may have asked other people or maybe a person who refused to move on gave a false name and address, don't think data protection has anything todo with it.

You are well within your right to inquire as to how the Gardai got your name. They cannot tell you who, but they can tell you how. You could use that in your defence.

22-01-2014 8:56pm

EireGun wrote: »

You are well within your right to inquire as to how the Gardai got your name. They cannot tell you who, but they can tell you how. You could use that in your defence.

I what way does the manner in which the OP's name was obtained provide a defence? Unless there was a breach of a constitutional right (and I can't conceive how this could be the case) then it seems completely irrelevant.

No Pants · 22-01-2014 8:58pm

Does it state the location on the fine and does that match where the argument happened?

Pro Hoc Vice · 22-01-2014 8:59pm

EireGun wrote: »

You are well within your right to inquire as to how the Gardai got your name. They cannot tell you who, but they can tell you how. You could use that in your defence.

All that information will be provided in a Gary Doyle order.

sawdoubters · 22-01-2014 9:03pm

you were too drunk to remember giving him your name

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/public_order_offenses_in_ireland.html

Shadow Walker · 22-01-2014 9:07pm

EireGun wrote: »

Inquire as to how they got your name, play the Data Protection Commissioner card, that usually works when the Gardai get your details from a third party or someone else get's your name from them.

However they got your name , its quite obvious by your post they got the right person. If you refuse to pay the fine, it will result in a court case at which you can ask the guard how he got your name . He may answer that he knew you or that he conducted enquiries or that a colleague identified you.

What will definetly happen is the judge will get annoyed that his court list is being delayed by irrelevant questions from someone who on the face of it cannot behave when out socialising.

As for your " Data Protection Card" why ? I mean what kind of a defence is that . Canyon86 was either disorderly or not .

My sincere advice is pay up and don't make things worse for yourself.

Pro Hoc Vice · 22-01-2014 9:12pm

Shadow Walker wrote: »

However they got your name , its quite obvious by your post they got the right person. If you refuse to pay the fine, it will result in a court case at which you can ask the guard how he got your name . He may answer that he knew you or that he conducted enquiries or that a colleague identified you.

What will definetly happen is the judge will get annoyed that his court list is being delayed by irrelevant questions from someone who on the face of it cannot behave when out socialising.

As for your " Data Protection Card" why ? I mean what kind of a defence is that . You were either disorderly or not .

My sincere advice is pay up and don't make things worse for yourself.

You know that Eiregun is not the original poster.

Shadow Walker · 22-01-2014 9:18pm

Yea infosys , I could have been more precise , but the post is still valid .

EireGun · 22-01-2014 9:28pm

Shadow Walker wrote: »

Yea infosys , I could have been more precise , but the post is still valid .

Just saying I was in a position where the Gardai gave my name and address out to a third party, which was completely and utterly a breach of my data rights. I know it's name the same case here, but the Guards aren't right all the time.

Pat Mustard · 23-01-2014 8:10am

Was this meeting with the Garda within the hours of midnight and 7am OP?

Canyon86 · 23-01-2014 9:19am

Yes the incident happened between 12 and 7am,

It does give the location and time on fine,

I m just curious as to why I got a fine when I obeyed garda instruction to leave the scene,
also the other party as far as I know didnt recieve any fine,

Canyon86 · 23-01-2014 9:19am

The Mustard wrote: »

Was this meeting with the Garda within the hours of midnight and 7am OP?

Yes it was

Canyon86 · 23-01-2014 9:20am

harbourmill wrote: »

Pay the fine, it does not matter how the garda got your name. you say it was for drunk and disorderly , and you are not disputing the fact that alcohol was involved. it may be that you do not have a clear recollection of what transpired during the arguement , or how loud ye actually were.

Yes alcohol was involved,

But I was at a nice limit and remember the night perfectly

Canyon86 · 23-01-2014 9:22am

sawdoubters wrote: »

you were too drunk to remember giving him your name

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/public_order_offenses_in_ireland.html

No that was not the case,
I was amongst friends and all said I never gave a name, I obeyed garda instruction to leave the area,
No mention of any fine at all

whippet · 23-01-2014 9:22am

Canyon86 wrote: »

I m just curious as to why I got a fine when I obeyed garda instruction to leave the scene,
also the other party as far as I know didnt recieve any fine,

but by the virtue of being in row in a public place you are disorderly, when the guard asked to you move you did so; if you didn't you would most likely be charged with another offence, such as failure to comply with the direction of a guard.

Canyon86 · 23-01-2014 9:25am

whippet wrote: »

but by the virtue of being in row in a public place you are disorderly, when the guard asked to you move you did so; if you didn't you would most likely be charged with another offence, such as failure to comply with the direction of a guard.

Yes I understand that part,

but at no stage any mention of a fine was given or details taken,

surely this is not procedure?

whippet · 23-01-2014 10:35am

Canyon86 wrote: »

Yes I understand that part,

but at no stage any mention of a fine was given or details taken,

surely this is not procedure?

They were satisfied with your details (regardless of how they got them) and as you have confirmed they were correct.

A fixed penalty notice does not have to be mentioned at the offence (unless someone could confirm otherwise) .. much like a fixed penalty notice from a speed camera, you don't get stopped and told you will get the fine, it arrives in the post.

From what I can read in to this:

- you committed and admitted to a minor offence
- received a fine

Now you are looking for someway to get out of it, personally I would advise paying the fine and hopefully act a little more maturely when out and about late at night - lesson to be learned

Pat Mustard · 23-01-2014 11:42am

whippet wrote: »

but by the virtue of being in row in a public place you are disorderly.

According to s.5 of the Public Order Act, one would have had to have engaged in offensive behaviour, which, having regard to all circumstances, was likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance or might reasonably be expected to cause serious offence or annoyance.

whippet · 23-01-2014 12:02pm

The Mustard wrote: »

According to s.5 of the Public Order Act, one would have had to have engaged in offensive behaviour, which, having regard to all circumstances, was likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance or might reasonably be expected to cause serious offence or annoyance.

and the guard in question obviously felt that that was the case and fortunately after being warned the OP followed the direction of the guard and now has only been accused of the original offence.

WildRosie · 23-01-2014 4:38pm

Do you know other person? Could he have given the guards your name and address instead of his own?

Pat Mustard · 23-01-2014 5:45pm

whippet wrote: »

and the guard in question obviously felt that that was the case and fortunately after being warned the OP followed the direction of the guard and now has only been accused of the original offence.

But this doesn't mean that a person is guilty of disorderly conduct by virtue of having an argument in a public place, which is what you said previously.

Garda fine

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