Some Thoughts Please, no judgement

LegacyUser

Hi,
I hope I'm posting this in the right place. I have a dilemma that I need perspective on. Please try to respond from a non judgmental position. I believe, while it is a natural human tendency, judgement I find is unhelpful.

I have a lovely relationship with my current partner. The 'sore spot' is his 'past'. What's in his 'past'? Two children with whom he has no relationship. He never bonded 'emotionally' with the children to begin with, he never 'fell in love' with them. He does contribute financially, but that's it. The story is one he finds very difficult to tell, though I have heard it. It includes elements of fear, failure, inadequacy, anger, pride, not knowing what to do and choosing 'walking away' as the solution instead. From what I believe there was a big power struggle when the relationship failed with his then wife, there were control issues, conditions attached to how he spent time with the kids (i.e) under her roof and her supervision, that extended to his family also.

He has described his experience as the children being used as weapons in a war he couldn't win and so he decided to do the extreme thing and just leave, without putting up a fight.

I have seen photos of him during that time in his life and I can see the conflict in his face… he looked so hard in those photos. I suspect that hardness is still in there somewhere. I know his father was emotionally absent during his own childhood and they have an ambivalent relationship to this day.

My partner is the biggest softie ever, it's hard to imagine there could be such coldness in there, but I know that coldness had a function, and I'm trying to remain curious in relation to it so that I can understand and maybe support whatever vulnerability or fear lies underneath, should it ever find the courage to emerge.

Where he's at now is the 'should never have happened in the first place', 'I made my decision, I failed and I just have to deal with that'.. denying, avoiding and wishing it away place. He does NOT want to confront this on an emotional level and in his 'mind' (ego) he has reduced his contribution to their lives or his responsibility to a monetary purpose and nothing more, he seems to have reached a conclusion.

BUT… I see how this unfinished business still dictates some decision making in his current life. It's still unresolved for him on some level and he's not as 'over it' as he consciously is. It is still a 'problem' he doesn't know how to solve any way other than by ignoring it.

So what's my beef? Well I'm conflicted about how to interpret this. I've been hopping in and out of this 'split family' shoes. His, hers and the kids… from the kids perspective this is painful. The longer he is absent, the greater the hole left in their worlds, how could he do this? Her perspective, I imagine there's a part of her that thinks she has 'won', she managed to make a bastard out of him and prove it too… 'he even abandoned his own kids', or maybe she's devastated for her children and also doesn't know what to do. What I do know is that she knows where he lives and if she wanted him in their lives, would she not have made some effort or taken some responsibility in facilitating that also? Couldn't she have encouraged him instead of attacking him? Couldn't they have worked it out?

And then there's me. I love him. My maternal instinct finds this really hard not only to understand, but to accept. I have no children and I would like to have a child with him but… dot dot dot. There's a part of me that is afraid his past action and current inaction could also be a product of something lacking in him. Courage, conscience, remorse, responsibility… these are qualities that are important to me in a partner, never mind a father of my child. He is adamant 'that' will never happen again. He can't even use the words to describe it any other way than 'that'. And I believe in him, I know he's capable. But it's how he relates to his fears that bother me. Am I willing to take that risk? What if we have a child and 'something happens' that frightens him. I can only expect a repeat performance because I know how big this fear is for him.

I want him to 'step up to the plate', (this is what my doubt and fear wants) I haven't said it in so many words because I'm afraid I'll strengthen the defense he has built around it. In saying that I have been approaching the issue with him in terms of bringing it to his awareness and creating doubt in his 'I failed, beyond repair' theory. I don't see so far any questioning of his decision happening on his part. Until that happens I don't have the partner with the qualities I hoped for after all.

Ironic that I'm avoiding confronting him about his avoidance confronting his past. I'm just trying not to be confrontational, because I know that will frighten him. But I am trying to mind myself too.

He intends to begin the process of divorce now (something else he has avoided until now) and I know this is going to come up for him, he reckons it'll go something like 'whatever they want I'm open to' so although he's approaching the formality of the ended marriage part, he's still avoiding the children part. Is there hope that maybe this is the beginning of him facing this pain?

And….breathe…. thanks for reading.

January

Hi op, I've moved your post to Personal Issues, I think you'll get some better replies here.

Pawwed Rig

theviewfromhere wrote: »

He has described his experience as the children being used as weapons in a war he couldn't win and so he decided to do the extreme thing and just leave, without putting up a fight.

It is hard to advise you without knowing the ins and outs of his previous relationship but from what you said it sounds like he might have done the best thing for himself and his children. The sad fact is if a mother wants to make things difficult for a father following a break up there is pretty much nothing the father can do about it under the current family law system.
From what you say she was willing to use the kids to point score and that would be an intolerable position for anyone to be in. To be supervised like you're some kind of pariah! This would be damaging for him and the children.
All of the power is in the womans hands in this case and she will be supported by the law and social workers (almost) regardless of what she decides.

You can only judge him by what you know of him. At the very least he is financially supporting them so is ahead of many others in the same situation.

tcif

It may not be what you want to hear but I would share your instinctive fears. If he can wash his hands of the children he fathered and presumably spent at least some time raising from babies (I'm assuming he was a live in Dad until his marriage broke up, which means he was there at least into baby #1's second year) and consign them to the past other than as a financial obligation, that would scare me. I would worry about his ability to commit emotionally and/or to deal with the important stuff, not qualities I would want in someone to love and grow old with.

I know divorces can get messy and ugly (been there) but my OH has a child from previous marriage also and nothing would keep them apart and I think that's natural parental instinct and how it should be.

Telling him how you feel isn't being confrontational if it's done in a calm way. If you're thinking of committing to this person as the father of your child(ren) then you should be able to tell him your fears and talk to him openly. You can't go through life with something this big as the "elephant in the room" and while none of us are obliged to explain our past to our present partners, this isn't really the past. He has two children that are very much in the present.

Knine

To be honest if it were me I would be not interested in a man who did not see his kids. Citing an ex using the kids as weapons etc is not good enough. There are also 2 sides to that story. The Family Law Courts will soon put an end to that. Did he ever go down that route? A father interested in seeing his kids will get decent access if he goes to court. I have years of experience in that regard. Many people who think it is all about the mothers have often never been to court.

What if you go on to have children together? Will he do the same to them too? I can understand exactly where you are coming from OP.

username123

They say past behaviour is the best indicator of future behaviour. I don't believe excuses re the ex wife making it too hard.

Tasden

OP the fact you say "no judgement" a couple of times before going in to the whole story is kind of telling. You obviously feel like you know what people will think and so you have thought these things yourself, even if he did give his side of the story and changed your perspective.


As a mother who had to deal with my child's absent father (he eventually came round but only after a long battle) I don't think you can assume anything about the mothers actions. Maybe she used the kids as weapons, maybe she did what I did and hounded the guy constantly to see the kids until eventually she realised that there is no point trying to force a man to see his child because it just harbours resentment and rejection for the kids. How far into the "battle" did you arrive? Because I can tell you now that its easy for some men to turn around to their new partner and make the mother out to be the bad guy- "she wouldnt let me" etc. If she only wanted him to visit the kids under supervision why was that? And even so, why didn't he see them under supervision? If he wanted to see his children he would have no matter where it was or who was there. The only thing you have to go on for definite is his inaction.

It seems to me that this is only becoming a real issue for you now when the idea of your possible future child experiencing the same has become a possibility. And that's ok, its understandable when its applicable to your own circumstances but Tbh he has to face this issue in his own time not because you need proof that he can be a father. And those kids have gotten used to not having him around, take it from someone who knows, its a lot easier for them having constant reliable no contact than fleeting half assed contact every once in a while to ease his conscience or your fears. He needs to want to do it and permanently.

I find it sickening that any dad can abandon their child, regardless of the circumstances, but I also know as a mother that if they do decide they want a relationship with the child again I would welcome it as its their father. Whether this mother feels the same, or indeed the children themselves, I don't know. Maybe they are better off and don't want him involved again.

There's three sides to every story, (in this case unfortunately four)- his, hers, the kids' and the truth.

Also just read the bit about you thinking she thinks she's "won", I'm not saying this out of biterness or as the mother in the situation, I honestly am being unbiased here but NOBODY wins in this situation. She's rearing the kids without the support of their father. Financially he's supporting them but money means nothing when the kids are crying for their dad. She's dealing with the fallout of him leaving. And he HAS left, he's making himself out to be the bad guy, she doesn't need to.

Matteroffact

He obviously needs counselling but I guess he is the sort of man who would not be open to this. Some men are very closed and can't cope with that kind of thing. This man obviously knows that what he did was wrong but he felt so helpless with the break up of his marriage that he opted out of the whole thing. He doesn't know how to cope now thinking that he cannot make amends for what happened, but maybe you could reassure him that it is never too late to get to know his children. He has a right to have access and I am sure all of this will come up if he is getting a divorce and this could be his chance to say what he wants. All you can do is encourage him OP to see that this is his golden opportunity and that his children would be delighted to get to know him. I feel that this man lacks confidence and rather than put up a fight he just took the line of least resistance. It is so sad but there is still time to change all of this, so encourage him by pointing out how his children need him in their lives and that the older they get the more aware they will be that he is absent.

jellyboy

hi op

i read this from your post..
you don't believe him

how we deal with traumas very much down to the individual
anyone that writes about their experience of courts,break ups /breakdowns are given their side ..

Some have good and some have bad experiences
your partner is one of those men who has had a bad experience

from your post ,he seems to have told you how it was,but you seem to want him to go further in and ignore his pain and his exs indifference to his role as a father

there is a slant in the court system against males

i would suggest that you stop judging him and support him …
maybe couple counseling or open talking about this could be a way forward ?

LegacyUser

Thank you

Jellyboy, you're right there's a 'part' of me that questions him, and I also agree that what I'm hearing is a 'side of the story' and that side has had a really bad experience. You misunderstand me when you say

"from your post ,he seems to have told you how it was,but you seem to want him to go further in and ignore his pain and his exs indifference to his role as a father"

I don't want him to 'ignore' his pain. I am supportive of him, what you call my 'judgement' of him is my acknowledgment of that pain, the pain of the situation and his avoidance of it because it is such an important life matter. I would be naive to 'ignore' my own concerns and the potential consequences for me and for him/us, I don't want him (or me) to go through that again. (and I'm sad his children and their mother have had to also)

I'm sure the other sides have equally persuasive stories and an equally bad experience. Thank you Tasden for sharing your experience. I haven't drawn any conclusions on any assumptions about the mother, there's a part of me that's in her corner too. I don't know anything about her, along with my 'thoughts' of her having 'won' are thoughts of her frustration and disappointment, her side of the losing 'battle' with him. These are just some of the perspectives I've imagined. And I agree nobody 'wins' here. So thank you for speaking for that side, because that's a voice missing in the argument on his side.

From experiences I've had in which mine was only one side to the story, and having done a lot of my own soul searching over the years I understand that where there are open wounds there is little tolerance for further pain. It takes a lot to own up to your failures and admit you were wrong. It's not an easy place to go. And there are no innocent parties when somebody has been hurt.

Matteroffact, thank you so much. I would have thought that also, that some counseling would be on a 'no no' list for him, but I'm not so sure, nothing can be ruled out, there is always hope. And yes, he knows he did wrong here. He failed, that kills him, I know it. I agree with you that this is potentially a golden opportunity for reparation.

Thank you Knine and tcif also. You each helped to balance this out.

We had an amazing talk, out of the blue today after he brought up the subject himself for the first time. I was so encouraged. As I mentioned in OP, I had planted a seed of doubt in his theory and it seems to have shifted something. I think he is open to the possibility that he maybe does have enough courage to follow through with the harder part. I never mentioned that the reason he is 'facing' the divorce now is because he wants to commit to me. And that in turn has turned up the 'responsibility' dial on my radar. I've ignored my radar once before, and it was a painful lesson.

I know he has this courage, I've seen him use it, my god he has it. He used it for me in a way that I will never forget and for me to let him down by sledgehammering him through this, tippy toeing around it or being indifferent, actually anything but supportive, would shatter that. He just needs to realize that he can use that courage for himself as well and to be the hero in his own story too, not just mine.

I posted here to 'get it out' because his 'issue' triggered an 'issue' for me and though they're related, I didn't want to 'bleed' my needs onto him in the hope that he'd 'fix' us both. I needed a sounding board. The situation emerging as an issue of importance with me has made me realize how much not only I love him, but how much I love 'us' and our life together, too much to let something that has the potential to heal fall through the cracks because neither of us trusted the other enough to be honest about the ugly side of this. That's big.

I think I got what I need from this, thank you.

Taltos

theviewfromhere wrote: »

I think I got what I need from this, thank you.

Taking this as a request to close.
OP, if you change your mind and want it re-opened please contact any of the mods here with a link to this thread in strictest confidence.

Best of luck.