Coping with sexual compatibility issue

LegacyUser

In summary, after 18 years of marriage and a great deal of frustration I am coming to a conclusion that my DW has a very low libido or interest in sex in general and if I am honest is bordering on a tendency to be asexual.
In reality, she will survive self imposed "dry spells" or being celibate for well over a year without causing her any frustration.

It has led to very strained discussions every few years when things reach a crisis point after long periods of abstinence and I cave in.
I seem to naively fall into the trap of thinking that I can awaken some buried desire in my wife for me but it just doesn't ever materialise in a way that I can sense is real or sustainable.
Then, eventaully the cycle of just thinking "why bother?" settles in again.
The feelings of rejection start to take too much hold and impact on my wider world and I have to just give up the ghost again.
That in turn leads to me becoming more distant in my mind from my wife other than in just a very practical domestic relationship.

Is it selfish of me to seek counselling to address issues which are a downstream effect of all this on my own personality and makeup ?

I've let my whole motivational career and lust and general enjoyment for life itself drain to a very low level and I sense that this is more than partly due to me having let this issue get in on aspects of my own self worth.
I am battling with the idea that maybe there are coping strategies for me to deal with this and still remain married and also a level of guilt that I have become over consumed with this (which is not healthy).
I have never cheated on my wife but the idea of falling into the arms of someone more compatible and feeling someone more actively desire me has played on my mind. I have battled with the guilt of this and I prefer to try to settle my emotional attachment to my wife instead.

I am finding it extraordinarily difficult to square trying to get on with married life with this niggling feeling that something big is missing.
I feel like there is this big elephant in the room in our marriage and it is challenging to put on a front that all is fine in our marriage to the outside world.

I don't even know what type of counselling I would need to attend to begin to seek to address these issues ? Does anyone have suggestions in this regard?

My wife is closed to the idea of couples counselling so it would need to be me on my own attending.
I used to resent that but when I look at things from the point of view that maybe she knows she cannot change then maybe she is being honest in avoiding couples counselling since it might lead to a false hope.

Merkin

40something wrote: »

My wife is closed to the idea of couples counselling so it would need to be me on my own attending.
I used to resent that but when I look at things from the point of view that maybe she knows she cannot change then maybe she is being honest in avoiding couples counselling since it might lead to a false hope.

You have the patience of a saint.

There is a big difference between knowing she is incapable of change and not actually wanting to change. Unless there is some serious medical issue or she simply suddenly finds you repulsive, then it is possible that she can get her libido back but she has to be willing to put work into it by invoking the help of a counsellor and/or GP to rule out medical problems. By not doing so she is not willing to meet you halfway and is ultimately neglecting your needs and wants (which are very healthy and normal in a relationship).

I'd talk to her again about the counseling. She can't just disregard it completely, have nothing change and expect you to be OK about it.

You need to have a very frank discussion with her and then you need to go for couples counseling.

Virgil°

I wouldn't normally be the one for ultimatums OP but its 18 years at this stage.

If your wife hasn't changed at all in that period despite your efforts its unlikely she will now all of a sudden. You are almost as responsible as she is OP. This should have been nipped in the bud at the onset.

So it comes down to it now: Can you live the rest of your days without sex? This is the road that lies ahead of you in this marriage.
We only get one life OP. You have every chance of having a happy sex life but not with this woman I fear.

Give your wife an ultimatum. Say that the situation has come to a head. A relationship without sex just doesn't cut it anymore. Do not allow your wife to convince you that you are nagging her for it or being a pervert for wanting a healthy sex life. But be prepared for the worst, that she is happy with the status quo and is not willing to change.

LegacyUser

Virgil - I do understand where you are coming from with me not having nipped this in the bud, so as to speak.
From what I can recollect I did get into ultimatum territory as early as the first 3 years of marriage when this all appeared to be setting in.
I think I felt like a ba***rd for making sexual intimacy a make or break issue at the time.
I had nobody to discuss this with other than her and I was feeling internally guilty about the way I was seemingly putting myself first.

She may well have offered what seemed like reasonable excuses at the time and offers of improving and I must have gone along with those promises and never carried through on an ultimatum.

At that point she was training in her future career and so during our first 4 years of marriage she wasn't interested in having kids straight away.
Not long after and all of a sudden she had a desire to start a family and so I was kind of wrongfooted into mistaking that things were improving.
In fact, it was that she was focussed on getting pregnant.
I can only see this now in retrospect. We have 2 lovely kids now so there is no use in me thinking of time machines to change back time.

When I think back - my DW was most focussed on our sexual relationship when it came to purely a procreational intent.
It has been as if sex has been something fairly irrelevant outside that.
That is something I can never say directly to her as it is a very cold clinical observation and it feels bad for me to sully the whole business of how our lovely children were conceived, etc.

Sleepy

40something wrote: »

My wife is closed to the idea of couples counselling so it would need to be me on my own attending.
I used to resent that but when I look at things from the point of view that maybe she knows she cannot change then maybe she is being honest in avoiding couples counselling since it might lead to a false hope.

Sorry OP but that's horse-****. As it stands, she's just so comfortable in her life that she's obviously afraid of counselling as she knows she's the one who has the problem here: either her libido is gone or her desire/love for you is. Why wouldn't she attend couples counselling if she loved you?

There's your answer: she doesn't. She might say she does but it's the status quo she seems to want, not a real marriage.

Ultimatum time: attend counselling and make genuine changes (not efforts, not attempts, actual measurable changes) or it's divorce. Leaving someone that's simply using you as a lifestyle accessory (or meal ticket) doesn't make you a bad person. A fool for tolerating it for so long, possibly, but not in any way the "bad guy" of the situation.

Virgil°

40something wrote: »

Virgil - I do understand where you are coming from with me not having nipped this in the bud, so as to speak.
From what I can recollect I did get into ultimatum territory as early as the first 3 years of marriage when this all appeared to be setting in.
I think I felt like a ba***rd for making sexual intimacy a make or break issue at the time.
I had nobody to discuss this with other than her and I was feeling internally guilty about the way I was seemingly putting myself first.

She may well have offered what seemed like reasonable excuses at the time and offers of improving and I must have gone along with those promises and never carried through on an ultimatum.

At that point she was training in her future career and so during our first 4 years of marriage she wasn't interested in having kids straight away.
Not long after and all of a sudden she had a desire to start a family and so I was kind of wrongfooted into mistaking that things were improving.
In fact, it was that she was focussed on getting pregnant.
I can only see this now in retrospect. We have 2 lovely kids now so there is no use in me thinking of time machines to change back time.

When I think back - my DW was most focussed on our sexual relationship when it came to purely a procreational intent.
It has been as if sex has been something fairly irrelevant outside that.
That is something I can never say directly to her as it is a very cold clinical observation and it feels bad for me to sully the whole business of how our lovely children were conceived, etc.

At this stage I'd be thinking it doesn't really matter what her reasons are. If shes not willing to discuss them and improve what else can you do?

If she wont meet you halfway then your marriage is dead in the water anyway. You are not a bastard for wanting a healthy sex life. And you can have that. If you have the cojones to do something about it.

miamee

OP, have you *ever* had a satisfying sexual relationship with your wife? When you first got together maybe, or before you were married? If you did, then maybe there is a possibility to rekindle that feeling between you with counselling and/or couples therapy - however this is not something you can solve on your own. If you have never had such a relationship with her, I'm afraid you are unlikely to start now and it is time to seriously think about whether you are happy with this situation 'til death do us part' or not.

LegacyUser

miamee wrote: »

OP, have you *ever* had a satisfying sexual relationship with your wife? When you first got together maybe, or before you were married? If you did, then maybe there is a possibility to rekindle that feeling between you with counselling and/or couples therapy - however this is not something you can solve on your own. If you have never had such a relationship with her, I'm afraid you are unlikely to start now and it is time to seriously think about whether you are happy with this situation 'til death do us part' or not.

Things were good in the early stages of the marriage (i.e first 2-3yrs).
I recall it would be my DW who would remind me to go to the chemist for protection before a weekend evening.
It is such a distant memory.
She was conservative about (penetrative) sex before marriage and I could over analyse that as being a red flag but as I say the early part of the marriage there was definitely a sense of her desire being present to what I would have felt was normal, fulfilling and not AWOL.
Trying not to be over graphic but hand relief was also part of the mix back then on occasions (perhaps on her period, etc). That side of things dwindled and vanished way back in time unfortunately.

In what semblances of discussions we have managed to fumble through in relatively recent times my DW seems to suggest that this is how she is and although she does mention the idea of me being more spontaneous, romantic, etc she seems to be setting a very low bar on expectations of how things might improve even if I was to up the effort in those areas.
This is where I am starting to see this idea of her having settled for a largely asexual lifestyle - that sex is a nuisance. That it is not me. It is how she is.
There are sites on the internet (mostly a USA/North American slant) where a large group of people seem to have willingly put themselves in this 1% asexual category.
Maybe unfairly I am somewhat sceptical in that I think that is probably a cop out for people who for whatever unfortunate reason have lost touch with their sexuality but it is a recognised phenomenon....

Also - just to put something else into context.
We have had sex recently enough 1-2 months ago (for the first time in well over a year).
It came more out of an argument to be honest and she enjoyed it.
It is just that I keep seeing her unfortunately lapsing back into indifference around to whole area of that level of intimacy.
I am fearful of it all going the same way again for the umpteenth time.

Chemist Difference

40something wrote: »

In summary, after 18 years of marriage and a great deal of frustration I am coming to a conclusion that my DW has a very low libido or interest in sex in general and if I am honest is bordering on a tendency to be asexual.
In reality, she will survive self imposed "dry spells" or being celibate for well over a year without causing her any frustration.

It has led to very strained discussions every few years when things reach a crisis point after long periods of abstinence and I cave in.
I seem to naively fall into the trap of thinking that I can awaken some buried desire in my wife for me but it just doesn't ever materialise in a way that I can sense is real or sustainable.
Then, eventaully the cycle of just thinking "why bother?" settles in again.
The feelings of rejection start to take too much hold and impact on my wider world and I have to just give up the ghost again.
That in turn leads to me becoming more distant in my mind from my wife other than in just a very practical domestic relationship.

Is it selfish of me to seek counselling to address issues which are a downstream effect of all this on my own personality and makeup ?

I've let my whole motivational career and lust and general enjoyment for life itself drain to a very low level and I sense that this is more than partly due to me having let this issue get in on aspects of my own self worth.
I am battling with the idea that maybe there are coping strategies for me to deal with this and still remain married and also a level of guilt that I have become over consumed with this (which is not healthy).
I have never cheated on my wife but the idea of falling into the arms of someone more compatible and feeling someone more actively desire me has played on my mind. I have battled with the guilt of this and I prefer to try to settle my emotional attachment to my wife instead.

I am finding it extraordinarily difficult to square trying to get on with married life with this niggling feeling that something big is missing.
I feel like there is this big elephant in the room in our marriage and it is challenging to put on a front that all is fine in our marriage to the outside world.

I don't even know what type of counselling I would need to attend to begin to seek to address these issues ? Does anyone have suggestions in this regard?

My wife is closed to the idea of couples counselling so it would need to be me on my own attending.
I used to resent that but when I look at things from the point of view that maybe she knows she cannot change then maybe she is being honest in avoiding couples counselling since it might lead to a false hope.

Ask her straight out if she is still attracted to you?

LegacyUser

When we eventually have one of those discussions about what is going on she does tell me that she loves me. She hugs me and brings me close to her.
It is just that very quickly the discussion is moved on by her away from frankly discussing the issues around her dis-inclination to have or initiate sex.

What does pain me is the fact we cannot share intimate thoughts on any great level.
I don't want to get lost in a spiral of trying to figure out what is at the base of it.
It seems like there is some kind of repression at work and also a habit of pushing the sexual side of her life into the far margins.

LegacyUser

OP

I left my gf and then wife after 12 years for this exact reason.

Just decided I'm not putting up with her selfishness anymore, she wouldn't go to any counselling she just had decided that sex wasn't on the agenda anymore

She had no issues with me etc, she had just decided.

So I left, and can honestly say it's the best thing I ever did in my life. I went a bit mad for a year and then met someone and am happier Than I could ever have been.

It's incredible how much better a relationship is when it's not just like living with a roommate.

Sex is crucial to relationship health imo.

LegacyUser

OP here again.

My most recent discussion (the other night) with my DW was a bit more to the point.
I realise that bringing up the whole sexual intimacy thing is a big red button for her.
I tried to bring up my concerns as sensitively as I could all the while telling her that I loved her.
She really re-iterated the whole stress of her job and tiredness as a core reason for how things have been... also as a reason why I shouldn't expect any big improvement.

Along with that she was very defensive when she realised we were really talking about the lack of sex and she got angry and said in as much words "so your not happy that I am not hopping on you each and every other night".
Nothing is further from the truth.
I really think in all the communication this is how she deals with avoiding discussing the issue - by making me feel bad for having raised it.

If it were to happen consistently once a month I'd probably be more at ease once I realised that is wasn't going to lapse into another 12 months of frustration.

I am at wits end.
I am probably somewhat neurotic - truth be told - since I know how easy it has been for things to get back into "drought" mode for want of a better word.

Am I being unreasonable if I was to ask her to see the GP given that stress from work and tiredness are cited as the main cause ?
I know in my hearts heart that she will not want to visit the GP and she may rail against me for even suggesting it.
Part of the reason is her own pride because she works in the mental health field and she would find it tough to be with GP who she deals with in a professional capacity.

Am I coming across as a husband who is unsympathetic to his wife's situation ?

Cyclepath

In my experience these scenarios rarely end well. Having gone through it myself and having listened to more than a few friends with the same issue, all I can say is that it's an incredibly difficult situation to 'fix'.

In some cases, a man's self worth can be destroyed outright, for example if the spouse in question suddenly rekindles his or her desire, but with a different person.

It's simply not fair to expect one parter to live against their wishes in a sexless relationship. That's not the deal unless it's agreed upon first. Any spouse has a reasonable expectation of physical love in a relationship.

So to answer your initial question, it's not unreasonable of you to seek counselling or to expect your partner to discuss the issue thoroughly with you. I would strongly advise you to pursue the issue assertively. However you must also prepare yourself for the possibility that your partner will not engage with you.

After that, it's a simple choice... or rather a simple choice with complex ramifications. However if your partner does not respect you enough to engage or negotiate with you, then your decision will be informed by this.

Starokan

Hi OP, for some people sex is just not that important, your partner may well be bordering on asexuality. The reality is you guys are more great friends than a great couple; what you have to decide is whether the issue is worth breaking the marriage up for.

I suspect it is for you and you know what thats okay, no one could or would think any less of you , having sex is the most natural thing in the world for most people. Talk to her , see what she thinks, she may want to fix things or she may not.

Fedice

40something wrote: »

OP here again.

My most recent discussion (the other night) with my DW was a bit more to the point.
I realise that bringing up the whole sexual intimacy thing is a big red button for her.
I tried to bring up my concerns as sensitively as I could all the while telling her that I loved her.
She really re-iterated the whole stress of her job and tiredness as a core reason for how things have been... also as a reason why I shouldn't expect any big improvement.

Along with that she was very defensive when she realised we were really talking about the lack of sex and she got angry and said in as much words "so your not happy that I am not hopping on you each and every other night".
Nothing is further from the truth.
I really think in all the communication this is how she deals with avoiding discussing the issue - by making me feel bad for having raised it.

If it were to happen consistently once a month I'd probably be more at ease once I realised that is wasn't going to lapse into another 12 months of frustration.

I am at wits end.
I am probably somewhat neurotic - truth be told - since I know how easy it has been for things to get back into "drought" mode for want of a better word.

Am I being unreasonable if I was to ask her to see the GP given that stress from work and tiredness are cited as the main cause ?
I know in my hearts heart that she will not want to visit the GP and she may rail against me for even suggesting it.
Part of the reason is her own pride because she works in the mental health field and she would find it tough to be with GP who she deals with in a professional capacity.

Am I coming across as a husband who is unsympathetic to his wife's situation ?

Jesus she's done a job on you. She doesn't bother to have sex with you and manipulates you so that you think you are being a bastard for wanting sex.

Write down your feelings on the matter. Then write down questions which you need answered. Hand it to her, tell her to read it and that it's very important to you that she reads it and writes down answers to your questions. This way it won't be so easy to be vague and avoid the questions.

If she won't bother doing this I think you know how little you mean to her. Then you need to end the relationship and find someone who values you.

Sleepy

OP, lawyer up, get your affairs sorted and leave her. If she attacks you and makes you feel like a bastard for wanting a normal marriage she doesn't love you and will further emasculate you the longer this relationship continues.

She's your wife. She *SHOULD* want to hop on you every other night! It's not wrong of you to want a partner that feels like that about you. Sure, real life gets in the way and many of us end up having far less sex than that at times but honestly I'd be having a serious conversation with my wife if a dry spell stretched to anything even approaching a month unless there was a medical issue at the time.

TechnicalGroup

40something wrote: »

OP here again.

My most recent discussion (the other night) with my DW was a bit more to the point.
I realise that bringing up the whole sexual intimacy thing is a big red button for her.
I tried to bring up my concerns as sensitively as I could all the while telling her that I loved her.
She really re-iterated the whole stress of her job and tiredness as a core reason for how things have been... also as a reason why I shouldn't expect any big improvement.

Classic manipulation tactics. Oh, I would have had sex with you if only you hadn't asked me to. How many times did she spontaneously suggest sex? You are not the only person here thinking of future scenarios. She is manipulating you into not raising the situation so as to keep it frozen in the position that suits her.

40something wrote: »

Along with that she was very defensive when she realised we were really talking about the lack of sex and she got angry and said in as much words "so your not happy that I am not hopping on you each and every other night".
Nothing is further from the truth.

I really think in all the communication this is how she deals with avoiding discussing the issue - by making me feel bad for having raised it.

Exactly. Draw a breath and think about the reasoning behind that for a minute. You have put up with almost no sex for most of your sexually-active life and she is accusing you of being unreasonable. Does she really believe that, or is she pushing your guilt buttons to close down the discussion?

40something wrote: »

Am I being unreasonable if I was to ask her to see the GP given that stress from work and tiredness are cited as the main cause ?
I know in my hearts heart that she will not want to visit the GP and she may rail against me for even suggesting it.
Part of the reason is her own pride because she works in the mental health field and she would find it tough to be with GP who she deals with in a professional capacity.

Am I coming across as a husband who is unsympathetic to his wife's situation ?

Yes, you are being completely unreasonable.

It is possible that she has a problem that could be solved by something that would start with the GP. But that's not your concern, because there are other issues that the GP can't tackle. She is being unreasonable, selfish and manipulative. GPs can't cure that.

She has a right to not have sex if she chooses that. She does not have a right to decide that you will not have a sex life.

So here is the solution. Write a list. It should be something like this:

1. Things continue as they are
2. We have sex life - once per month is at the extreme low end of expectations. I would say once per week, to give yourself negotiation room if nothing else
3. We divorce
4. We have a companionship marriage, and each person's sex and love life is none of the other's business
5. A portion of the household budget is devoted to paying for prostitutes for you

Add your own solutions to the list, and allow her to add hers. Make it clear to her that if you are to have a life together, it must be on terms that you both agree, and that you are not open to continuing as before.