Question for painters/decorators re painting over mould in bedrooms please

elmar06

As the title says, would appreciate some advice please. My parents house is quite old and they have an ongoing problem with black mould/damp in bedrooms. This problem in particular is in the bedrooms at the back/gable wall where they get no sun at all. They had the house insulated 7-8 years ago and the attic is well insulated. They have a radiator/heater of some sort in the back bedroom and dehumidifiers in the rooms. Even the clothes in the wardrobe in the back bedroom were covered in mould. This room is only used as a spare room and wardrobes used for storage. Their room at the front but with a wall towards the back gets a lot of sun but again black mould on the back/gable wall, even with dehumidifiers. Now mould at the small part of the wall where the windows are. My question is, how to get rid of the mould for good. They'll be away for a while and I'd love to sort it out as a surprise. Does anyone have any suggestions please? I know that Homebase or B&Q have an ant-fungal wash and I was going to wash the walls with that and use an anti-mould undercoat and maybe anti-mould paint on top if needed. Would this stop the mould coming through for good? Don't want to waste money if it won't stop it but don't have the money or the knowledge to insulate, etc the rooms. They open windows all the time and leave the doors open. What else can be done?
Thanks in advance

dickwod1

I'd hire a decent dehumidifier and leave it on untill its not collecting water any more (or very little)

Make sure the room has a wall vent that is always opened

Keep the heat on in the bedroom for a while too (or an oil rad)

And after that tackle the mold problem with mold killer/remover

Only when all that is done paint it with what you described

After you paint the room keep it well ventilated and have some heat on espeically when its raining out

Odelay

Bathroom paint worked wonders for me in a mouldy bathroom. No sign of mould returning. It might make to rooms look cleaner but wont stop the mould growing on clothes. What are the footpaths like outside? Are they higher or lower than the floors inside?

CarrickMcJoe

More of a builders problem, would getting an insulated slab and reskimmed cure it. Painting is only a superficial cure imo.

elmar06

Thanks for all your replies. The house is a bungalow set away from the road so no footpaths but all the paths around the house are the same level as the house so no steps down or anything. Reskimming walls not an option for me to do unfortunately. There is a high wall at the gable wall where the problem walls are. It is an old house so damp to be expected I suppose. My mother has put a dehumidifier in the wardrobe and in a short space of time is nearly full. The heating is on in the rooms, windows open, doors open. It has improved a little bit since all this was done but does still appear. My mother is so depressed about it. Dad insists not as bad as she says so getting a builder in is not at all likely. Would the mould not come back even after hiring a dehumidifier when it was finished? As I said funds limited and time short as it has to be done and finished within 3 weeks. Was reading reviews of Weathercoat Fungicidal Wash
http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=110&storeId=10151&partNumber=840177
and it sounds like it might work and keep it off??

elmar06

Sorry, just to add, I can't recall if there are any wall vents in the rooms but will double check tomorrow.

gctest50

No point running a dehumidifier in the room if you leave the window open - you'll just be trying to dehumidify the planet

Get a good one, plug it in and close the door

elmar06

Thanks for your point but the dehumidifiers are mostly ones you don't plug in, they have gel or whatever it is in them. I think they do also have one you plug in but will double check that too and will look into that solution also. Does that mean though that it would have to be plugged in 24/7 always??

dickwod1

These are the type of dehumidifier's you will need before painting

If there is adequate heat and ventilation the mold should not come back after you finish, if it does you may require a new slab as mentioned before.

However if you were to use one of these for a few hours each day in the winter it would help alot after completion

Is the wardrobe fitted to a wall if so which one?

gctest50

elmar06 wrote: »

Thanks for your point but the dehumidifiers are mostly ones you don't plug in, they have gel or whatever it is in them. I think they do also have one you plug in but will double check that too and will look into that solution also. Does that mean though that it would have to be plugged in 24/7 always??

To treat the symptoms you'd probably need the electric ones

You really need to fix the cause though - suss out whether its coming through the walls or its a lack of ventilation or a bit of both

Just one person breathing per day is about half a litre of condensation, cooking might be another half a litre

sawdoubters

wash walls with tsp and bleach wear gloves and eye protection


you need to get rid of moisture in house


http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/DIY/wet-ufh/how-to-solve-condensation


http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/media/pdf/f/5/EST_condensation_enw1.pdf

elmar06

I'm so confused now. Obviously, in my head, I know that the solution is costly, long term better insulation, ventilation, etc but it's not my house and dont have the money/time for building work ie adding wall vents, heat recovery systems. The bedrooms are at the other end of the house than the kitchen, living areas. The bathroom is well ventilated, extractor fans always on after showering, window open. Never any problem with mould anywhere except the back bedrooms. Would tsp and bleach work better than the Weathershield antifungal wash? Is it a complete waste of time and money doing that and painting? Should I not bother at all?

oisinbutler

elmar06 wrote: »

I'm so confused now. Obviously, in my head, I know that the solution is costly, long term better insulation, ventilation, etc but it's not my house and dont have the money/time for building work ie adding wall vents, heat recovery systems. The bedrooms are at the other end of the house than the kitchen, living areas. The bathroom is well ventilated, extractor fans always on after showering, window open. Never any problem with mould anywhere except the back bedrooms. Would tsp and bleach work better than the Weathershield antifungal wash? Is it a complete waste of time and money doing that and painting? Should I not bother at all?

Sure you should bother. Bleach mixed with water will kill it off or you can use an anti fungal wash.
Keep the room warm and aired and it should be fine. If theres no vent you can have one installed, it shouldn't cost too much to put in.
If you can't afford to install a vent then it just means you'll need to go back and kill the mould from time to time.
To make life easier paint the walls in a soft sheen when the mould has been removed, it will make the job of cleaning future mould a lot faster.

Rancid

oisinbutler wrote: »

Sure you should bother. Bleach mixed with water will kill it off or you can use an anti fungal wash.
Keep the room warm and aired and it should be fine. If theres no vent you can have one installed, it shouldn't cost too much to put in.
If you can't afford to install a vent then it just means you'll need to go back and kill the mould from time to time.
To make life easier paint the walls in a soft sheen when the mould has been removed, it will make the job of cleaning future mould a lot faster.

I totally agree.

In the past I've found HG Anti-Mould spray very effective, just follow the directions on the bottle.

Only other suggestion I can add is to thoroughly clean the whole room, corners at skirting board level, especially, then vacuum the floor really well to remove any mould spores.
Then if you get the conditions right, some heat, some ventilation and regular use of a dehumidifier the mould should be slow to reappear.

gctest50

elmar06 wrote: »

.............. Never any problem with mould anywhere except the back bedrooms. ........

Once you have the mold slaughtered, you can get single-room electrically powered vents with heat recovery:

http://www.dealec.co.uk/acatalog/vent_axia_single_room_heat_recovery.html

Simple little things :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBkpR-1574k

elmar06

Thank you all so much for your replies. They were all so helpful and I really appreciate you all taking the time to reply. Will try all that out. My mother uses the HG range all the time so I know she has the mould spray. Will wash the walls with the antifungal wash I think. Is there any need to use the Polycell Damp Seal paint over that or could I just paint over the wash? Should I use special paint or would paint for kitchens and bathrooms be best or just normal paint? There aren't any damp patches but thought the damp seal might stop the mould coming through again. I read that the damp seal paint is very gloopy and would need a couple of coats of undercoat before painting on top to stop the top coat being streaky.

http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=110&storeId=10151&partNumber=674049

Will definitely look into those little heat recovery things, they look great and seem to be just what's needed. I think I'll wait till my parents are back to show them. They'll need 2 and my budget just won't run to them, unfortunately! Thanks for the link.

It's going to be a lot of work doing 3 bedrooms plus ceilings! Think I need to find a painter!

Thanks again

oisinbutler

elmar06 wrote: »

Thank you all so much for your replies. They were all so helpful and I really appreciate you all taking the time to reply. Will try all that out. My mother uses the HG range all the time so I know she has the mould spray. Will wash the walls with the antifungal wash I think. Is there any need to use the Polycell Damp Seal paint over that or could I just paint over the wash? Should I use special paint or would paint for kitchens and bathrooms be best or just normal paint? There aren't any damp patches but thought the damp seal might stop the mould coming through again. I read that the damp seal paint is very gloopy and would need a couple of coats of undercoat before painting on top to stop the top coat being streaky.

http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=110&storeId=10151&partNumber=674049

Will definitely look into those little heat recovery things, they look great and seem to be just what's needed. I think I'll wait till my parents are back to show them. They'll need 2 and my budget just won't run to them, unfortunately! Thanks for the link.

It's going to be a lot of work doing 3 bedrooms plus ceilings! Think I need to find a painter!

Thanks again

Is there moisture coming through the walls? Thats a slightly different kettle of fish. If its just condensation then use a bathroom/kitchen paint. Making sure the walls are clean and sound before painting. If your really want to push the boat out theres a paint called permawhite that inhibits the growth of mould.
If there are damp patches you'll need to block them but you also need to address the cause of the damp otherwise it will return.

elmar06

Hi
there's no moisture on the walls at all. Will look into that perma white paint actually, I've heard of that. Might use that instead of the damp seal because there are no damp patches on the walls. I know it has to be resolved long term. I'll show my parents that site on the single room heat recovery systems, they can get those if they'd like. I'll definitely tell them they need them. But if i could get the place painted and give it a chance to keep the mould away, even for a few months, I'd be happy. And my mother would be too!!
Thanks

elmar06

Hi
there's no moisture on the walls at all. Will look into that perma white paint actually, I've heard of that. Might use that instead of the damp seal because there are no damp patches on the walls. I know it has to be resolved long term. I'll show my parents that site on the single room heat recovery systems, they can get those if they'd like. I'll definitely tell them they need them. But if i could get the place painted and give it a chance to keep the mould away, even for a few months, I'd be happy. And my mother would be too!!
Thanks

oisinbutler

elmar06 wrote: »

Hi
there's no moisture on the walls at all. Will look into that perma white paint actually, I've heard of that. Might use that instead of the damp seal because there are no damp patches on the walls. I know it has to be resolved long term. I'll show my parents that site on the single room heat recovery systems, they can get those if they'd like. I'll definitely tell them they need them. But if i could get the place painted and give it a chance to keep the mould away, even for a few months, I'd be happy. And my mother would be too!!
Thanks

The permawhite will do the trick for you so. Its good paint and you can have it tinted to the colour you want too. Just make sure the mould is dead before painting on the permawhite because it just inhibits mould growth, it doesn't kill it. If you were to just paint over partially removed mould, the mould would continue to grow underneath the paint and slowly push it away from the wall.

elmar06

Hi
Was speaking to a painter today to get a quote and told him about the mould, etc. He said there's no need to buy expensive paint, stuff, etc and that Domestos diluted is all that's needed and then just to paint over using ordinary paint. I'm not sure if this will do the trick at all. What do others think of this? My mother has been using mould spray and it comes back. Surely this would be the case with Domestos too? I don't want the mould to come back on freshly painted walls after a couple of weeks. How do I make sure the mould is dead? Would using the antifungal wash and the damp seal paint and bathroom/kitchen paint do the job of killing the mould? Or just the wash and bathroom paint without the damp seal paint? Checked today and the mould is so much better because they're using plug in dehumidifiers but not sure if just domestos would do the trick? Help please, we're meeting him tomorrow to get a quote
Thanks

dodzy

Won't be an issue after a couple of months. Once the weather improves and the general temp increases, you'll be grand ( until next winter) . All you need to do is posted above.

Rancid

elmar06 wrote: »

Hi
.. I don't want the mould to come back on freshly painted walls after a couple of weeks. How do I make sure the mould is dead? ...

The anti-mould spray used properly will kill the mould on the walls.
To keep it away you HAVE to change the conditions that caused the mould to grow in the first place.
This just means better ventilation, some heat, and regular dehumidifier use (with the windows and doors closed).

After you've used the anti-mould spray and the walls are dry, I'd recommend one of the Easy-care or Easy-clean paints. If you get any sign of mould regrowth, those paints are very easy to wipe clean again.

Just a thought, if anything stored in the room smells musty or looks mouldy (and check behind and under furniture for signs, or the underneath of drawers, etc.) remove it to prevent the problem starting up again.

elmar06

Thank you all very much. I really appreciate all your help and advice. Will go with all of this )

Call me Al

I was told, when we were having insulation pumped into our walls and vents added, that bleach doesn't kill mould. You need a specific mould killer for that job.
Domestos will just bleach the mould so you can't see it, but it will still be there.

dodzy

Call me Al wrote: »

I was told, when we were having insulation pumped into our walls and vents added, that bleach doesn't kill mould. You need a specific mould killer for that job.
Domestos will just bleach the mould so you can't see it, but it will still be there.

you were told lies.

Call me Al

dodzy wrote: »

you were told lies.

You reckon? I meant my comment in the context of mould on walls.

http://blacktoxicmolds.com/bleach-kill-mold.php

oisinbutler

Call me Al wrote: »

You reckon? I meant my comment in the context of mould on walls.

http://blacktoxicmolds.com/bleach-kill-mold.php

Like the link says ' Bleach also kills mold if it comes into contact with it'. If you have a wall with out paint or plasterboard even and theres mould on it then the bleach or any other type of mould killer will only kill the surface mould. Mould will travel into plaster, plasterboard or any other type of non porous surface.
If this is the case you kill the surface mould with bleach/mould killer then paint a coat of mould block over the affected area. The mould block will stop the mould coming through again. Then you can paint as normal.

sawdoubters

you don't have to do building work,i would start by diverting the gutters away from house add a bit of pipe
about 5 feet,its probably the north wall that's getting moldy,extactor fan is easy to put in in bathroom and kitchen,there maybe grants,throw up some insulation in the attic,you can buy rolls in diy stores


http://www.permaculture.co.uk/readers-solutions/cheaply-increasing-energy-efficiency-old-home


http://www.doityourself.com/forum/walls-ceilings/253933-making-cold-room-warm-internal-insulation.html

elmar06

Oisinbutler, I haven't seen mould block paint anywhere? What brand or name would that be under? I've seen damp seal paint or the perma white paint which I'm having trouble finding actually. I'm in Dundalk and it seems to be stocked in Dublin. Woodies don't have it. There's a Homebase in Drogheda and is not on their website or B&Q in Newry. My parents have a great extractor fan in both the kitchen and bathroom. No problems there at all. They have a roof widow over the cooker too which is open a fair bit. Bathroom done up 2 years ago and is top of the range everything, fans, etc. But the back bedroom has always been cold because of the way it faces, and with the high wall behind it separating them and the neighbours.
My dad told me the attic is very well insulated when we were talking about it a while back. About the gutters, I don't think there is 5 feet between the house and the high wall at the neighbours.
Unfortunately, I don't think building work is on the cards any time soon. There was a lot of disruption on my parents property for the past year as dept of ed. were building in the field next to my parents and left it to my dad to do all the work on his side even though it only had to be done because of work they were doing on their side so he was digging trenches through concrete to re-direct cables, water pipes, eircom cables, rewiring, rebuilding walls, etc because they refused to do anything due to a lack of money so my dad nearly killed himself from early morning til late night every night so if i suggested any building work to him, I honestly think he'd cry!
I'm confused again, should I use bleach or get the Weathershield Antifungal Wash?

oisinbutler

elmar06 wrote: »

Oisinbutler, I haven't seen mould block paint anywhere? What brand or name would that be under? I've seen damp seal paint or the perma white paint which I'm having trouble finding actually. I'm in Dundalk and it seems to be stocked in Dublin. Woodies don't have it. There's a Homebase in Drogheda and is not on their website or B&Q in Newry. My parents have a great extractor fan in both the kitchen and bathroom. No problems there at all. They have a roof widow over the cooker too which is open a fair bit. Bathroom done up 2 years ago and is top of the range everything, fans, etc. But the back bedroom has always been cold because of the way it faces, and with the high wall behind it separating them and the neighbours.
My dad told me the attic is very well insulated when we were talking about it a while back. About the gutters, I don't think there is 5 feet between the house and the high wall at the neighbours.
Unfortunately, I don't think building work is on the cards any time soon. There was a lot of disruption on my parents property for the past year as dept of ed. were building in the field next to my parents and left it to my dad to do all the work on his side even though it only had to be done because of work they were doing on their side so he was digging trenches through concrete to re-direct cables, water pipes, eircom cables, rewiring, rebuilding walls, etc because they refused to do anything due to a lack of money so my dad nearly killed himself from early morning til late night every night so if i suggested any building work to him, I honestly think he'd cry!
I'm confused again, should I use bleach or get the Weathershield Antifungal Wash?

Bleach, anti fungal wash, mould killer.. They'll all do the same job. If you want peace of mind then go buy the mould killer and use that. As for mould blocking, you shouldn't need it if the mould is on the surface of the paint. Its only when mould gets into a porus surface that you need some kind of mold block shield. If the mould is in the plaster/plaster board then use this product http://www.mouldx.com/products.htm
I buy this stuff in stillorgan decor, stillorgan. Here is a list of some other stockists http://www.mouldx.com/stockists.htm

If you call stillorgan decor I'm sure they'll send up everything you need, including the permawhite.
Does this help you?

elmar06

Thank you oisinbutler for all that. Will def look for that paint tomorrow. That seems to be the product to use. Will see abhor the paint as well because I have no idea if the mould is just on the surface or deeper. I see is stocked in Dundalk so will call there tomorrow. It seems that using that paint with the spray means I won't need the damp seal paint and then won't have to use several coats of undercoat before painting! That's great news.
It's very good of you and of everybody to have gone to the trouble of posting advice.
Thanks very much.
Will post again after I talk to the painter (if he turns up this time!!)

oisinbutler

elmar06 wrote: »

Thank you oisinbutler for all that. Will def look for that paint tomorrow. That seems to be the product to use. Will see abhor the paint as well because I have no idea if the mould is just on the surface or deeper. I see is stocked in Dundalk so will call there tomorrow. It seems that using that paint with the spray means I won't need the damp seal paint and then won't have to use several coats of undercoat before painting! That's great news.
It's very good of you and of everybody to have gone to the trouble of posting advice.
Thanks very much.
Will post again after I talk to the painter (if he turns up this time!!)

You're welcome Elmar

oisinbutler

oisinbutler wrote: »

You're welcome Elmar

You've inspired me to write a blog about mould!

http://oisinbutler.ie/mould-removal-and-how-to-prevent-mould/

elmar06

Wow, so honoured to be a muse! Read your blog, it's very good. You see, I didn't know that there was such a difference between the antifungal and moild block paint - even after ALL my reading up on the subject, I still didn't realise that! So it was very informative!
Unfortunately, all my research seems to be put on hold for the time being. The painter's quote came in a bit steep imo. I didn't really think it would be so much. He said it would take him 2 days for 3 bedrooms (2 doubles, 1 single). All rooms have built in wardrobes which take up 1 wall of each room (apart from the single room where the built in wardrobe doesn't cover the whole wall). 1 double has 1 wall covered entirely with the wardrobe, 1 wall has the window and the depth of the wardrobe and another wall has the door. The other remaining wall has units above the locker that can't be moved. The single is the same as that double but without the units. The other double room is longer so 1 wall quite long but with wardrobe and door along the other long wall and other wall has the window.
He quoted E400 for the 2 days works to paint walls with the mouldx paint and then normal paint for walls and ceilings and woodwork just on the room side, so 1 side of the door. Does this price sound reasonable to you or am I just completely out of touch with painters prices as I normally do our own painting at home? And we were to buy all the paint ourselves and I was cleaning it with the mouldx spray beforehand btw.

oisinbutler

elmar06 wrote: »

Wow, so honoured to be a muse! Read your blog, it's very good. You see, I didn't know that there was such a difference between the antifungal and moild block paint - even after ALL my reading up on the subject, I still didn't realise that! So it was very informative!
Unfortunately, all my research seems to be put on hold for the time being. The painter's quote came in a bit steep imo. I didn't really think it would be so much. He said it would take him 2 days for 3 bedrooms (2 doubles, 1 single). All rooms have built in wardrobes which take up 1 wall of each room (apart from the single room where the built in wardrobe doesn't cover the whole wall). 1 double has 1 wall covered entirely with the wardrobe, 1 wall has the window and the depth of the wardrobe and another wall has the door. The other remaining wall has units above the locker that can't be moved. The single is the same as that double but without the units. The other double room is longer so 1 wall quite long but with wardrobe and door along the other long wall and other wall has the window.
He quoted E400 for the 2 days works to paint walls with the mouldx paint and then normal paint for walls and ceilings and woodwork just on the room side, so 1 side of the door. Does this price sound reasonable to you or am I just completely out of touch with painters prices as I normally do our own painting at home? And we were to buy all the paint ourselves and I was cleaning it with the mouldx spray beforehand btw.

Thanks muse! Glad you liked it!

Thats €400 including Vat? To be honest it will take two visits to finish the rooms if he's using the mould block on the ceilings and walls and oil based paint on the wood work.
The woodwork needs to be sanded down first, then undercoated. Once undercoated it needs to be left a day before the painter can apply the finish.
The mould block can take up to 6 hours before it can be painted over, so again it will probably be the next day before he can come back and apply a finish coat.
To speed up the process, assuming the mould has been removed, you can spray the ceiling and walls with the mould barrier and instead of using mould block use an anti mould additive mixed into the paint.
For the woodwork if you use acrylic undercoat and acrylic satinwood or gloss for the finish he might be able to get it all done in the one day. Also if you make sure everything is moved out of the painters way ie pictures on walls, books or anything else that the painter will need to move, this will also help him get the job done faster. Also make sure the heating is on, this will help the water based paint dry faster so he can recoat sooner.This is probably the best you can do without cutting corners.
A good painter will charge about this much to do work in your house and to be fair you usually get what you pay for.
I would offer to come out and have a look for you myself but I'm quite busy at the moment.