Phones, Tablets and laptops

dubdaymo

There was an article recently in the Indo Business section concerning the use of technology by pax onboard. It appears that, according to the experts, there never HAS been any danger to aircraft from the use of such items. We have all been conned.

It specifically mentioned that in the US nothing is banned onboard anymore but that Technology Company execs flying on EI's new San Fran service to DUB will not be best pleased when told to switch off. The article further stated that decisions on usage of such items onboard are made by the IAA after airline submissions are made but that none had been made so far by either EI or FR. Of course, you can't always believe what you read in the papers. I'm just bringing it up here for discussion purposes.

Coincidentally, I was on a BA flight ex-DUB since and it was specifically announced that all technology could be used at all phases of the flight (except that laptops, being deemed bulky items, had to be stowed for takeoff and landing and, of course, that mobile phones had to be in aeroplane mode).

If these rules are relaxed it will be interesting to see if the nonsensical rules that apply going through security, that are heaven-sent for jobsworths, are similarly relaxed making air travel a much better experience for travellers.

EchoIndia

dubdaymo wrote: »

If these rules are relaxed it will be interesting to see if the nonsensical rules that apply going through security, that are heaven-sent for jobsworths, are similarly relaxed making air travel a much better experience for travellers.

Though the security issues involve an entirely different set of considerations than those relating to use of electronic devices on board.

Growler!!!

dubdaymo wrote: »

There was an article recently in the Indo Business section concerning the use of technology by pax onboard. It appears that, according to the experts, there never HAS been any danger to aircraft from the use of such items. We have all been conned.

Hindsight is indeed 20/20. It's a bit much saying we were all conned as if we missed out on something. If new facts have come to light then, as in every industry the rules need to change as they seem to be.

But conned? Come on.

Tenger

dubdaymo wrote: »

There was an article recently in the Indo Business section concerning the use of technology by pax onboard......

It specifically mentioned that in the US nothing is banned onboard anymore but that Technology Company execs flying on EI's new San Fran service to DUB will not be best pleased when told to switch off. The article further stated that decisions on usage of such items onboard are made by the IAA after airline submissions are made but that none had been made so far by either EI or FR. Of course, you can't always believe what you read in the papers. I'm just bringing it up here for discussion purposes......

Well the US ruling is quite recent. I think the FAA only relaxed the rule about 2 months ago. Delta and JetBlue were ready to change their policy straight away. I'm not sure which if any other US carriers have also changed their own policies. And this is after years of testing and discussion....so "conned" is a bit of an overblown accusation.

EU aviation will follow suit but then it will be up to the individual airlines to alter their own policies. I would expect that EI and FR will follow the EU ruling, if they had any particular desires on this issue they would make a submissions to the IAA or the EU ruling body.
And for any passengers who argues this point they will be reminded that they (the passenger) ticked the box that stated they agree to the airline T&C's.

And perhaps the Tech execs will welcome a chance to "disconnect"?

IRLConor

Tenger wrote: »

And perhaps the Tech execs will welcome a chance to "disconnect"?

Well, I'm not an "exec" but I've found planes are a great place to get some actual work done. No e-mail/IM or other internet distractions makes for a great environment to get some code written.

So I'm on the fence a bit. I don't really care about being told to turn off the radio-emitting features of my devices but it's a bit irritating that on some airlines you get told to turn off all electronics (including my beloved noise cancelling headphones) ages before landing.

Five Lamps

I thought the rationale for 'banning' such devices for landing/take off was not because of any interference with flight systems but rather it was based on wanting to remove both distractions from potential safety announcements and bulky items in the vent something goes wrong?

St. Leibowitz

dubdaymo wrote: »

There was an article recently in the Indo Business section concerning the use of technology by pax onboard. It appears that, according to the experts, there never HAS been any danger to aircraft from the use of such items. We have all been conned.

Indo Business you say ?? I'm sure it was an incredibly well researched article then, with an emphasis on news and not sensationalist at all, and had input from "experts" from both sides of the arguement.

Have a look at the below. Nothing conclusive, but strong evidence, and certainly a reason to be cautious.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_10/interfere_textonly.html

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1995, 737 airplane.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A passenger laptop computer was reported to cause autopilot disconnects during cruise.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1996/1997, 767 airplane.
Over a period of eight months, Boeing received five reports on interference with various navigation equipment (uncommanded rolls, displays blanking, flight management computer [FMC]/ autopilot/standby altimeter inoperative, and autopilot disconnects) caused by passenger operation of a popular handheld electronic game device.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1998, 747 airplane.
A passenger’s palmtop computer was reported to cause the airplane to initiate a shallow bank turn.

[/FONT][/FONT]The industry has erred on the side of caution, not conning. If the Boeing article above is read, you'll see that in some cases, very strong evidence of interference was seen/reported, but that it was not reproducible in a lab. The problem is that while a specific device may be seen to be the primary reason, due to the physics of EMI, things such as harmonics and the subtle effects of other nearby devices on the primary interference signal come into play. And because of the subtleties, the seating position and emission power of all the devices are important, which cannot be reproduced in the lab easily. Even the position of a galley cart could have a bearing of the interference signal at a specific time.

The big issue is the amount of emissions if unrestricted use is allowed. Many people now carry two phones. Add tablets and laptops onto a long techie heavy flight and some passengers could have 5 or 6 devices powered up at the same time.

Aircraft systems are being hardened against EMI, but the physics of EMI is a notoriously difficult field. Usually the first step is to shield the electronics in a Faraday cage. Unfortunately, an aircraft is in essence a Faraday cage, and all the interference is being emitted inside it.

Will an airplane drop out of the sky because of all the emissions in the cabin ? Incredibly unlikely. Will "strange" things like the uncommanded turns, autopilot disconnects and screen blanks seen above happen ? Probably. They'll still be rare, but will become less so. Will an aircraft crash if something like that happens ? Probably not ... unless ... it happens at a critical stage of flight, or it happens during the cruise and isn't noticed by the crew. Those long oceanic flights can be incredibly boring.

fr336

If there was ever any chance of danger in terms of affecting the aircrafts computer systems, I daresay they might collect them all before the flight and give them back after :P Really couldn't trust every passenger (or even most) to actually do as they were told in such a scenario.

LXFlyer

Five Lamps wrote: »

I thought the rationale for 'banning' such devices for landing/take off was not because of any interference with flight systems but rather it was based on wanting to remove both distractions from potential safety announcements and bulky items in the vent something goes wrong?

This was always my understanding for the rationale on restricting headphones and laptops on take off and approach.

markpb

IRLConor wrote: »

Well, I'm not an "exec" but I've found planes are a great place to get some actual work done. No e-mail/IM or other internet distractions makes for a great environment to get some code written. .

+1

I'm the same. If I'm traveling for work, the flight is a great time to prepare for whatever meeting I'm going to and read any paperwork I'm behind on.