Oxytetracycline powder for Calves

sheebadog

Once 3 days old Calves go into auto feeder and get 16gms/day. Is this really necessary??

knockmulliner

sheebadog wrote: »

Once 3 days old Calves go into auto feeder and get 16gms/day. Is this really necessary??

i wouldn't have thought so, especially if they were your own. Bought in from different sources could be a problem. How long does the treatment go on for?

sheebadog

knockmulliner wrote: »

i wouldn't have thought so, especially if they were your own. Bought in from different sources could be a problem. How long does the treatment go on for?

77 days.

Brown Podzol

Does it act as a growth promoter?

sheebadog

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Does it act as a growth promoter?

I thought it was for pneumonia!

Brown Podzol

Both.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pharmacology/antibacterial_agents/tetracyclines.html

"In addition to antimicrobial chemotherapy, the tetracyclines are used for other purposes. As additives in animal feeds, they serve as growth promoters. Because of the affinity of tetracyclines for bones, teeth, and necrotic tissue, they can be used to delineate tumors by fluorescence. Demethylchlortetracycline has been used to inhibit the action of antidiuretic hormone in cases of excessive water retention and to “stretch” flexor digital tendons in neonatal foals."

sheebadog

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Both.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pharmacology/antibacterial_agents/tetracyclines.html

"In addition to antimicrobial chemotherapy, the tetracyclines are used for other purposes. As additives in animal feeds, they serve as growth promoters. Because of the affinity of tetracyclines for bones, teeth, and necrotic tissue, they can be used to delineate tumors by fluorescence. Demethylchlortetracycline has been used to inhibit the action of antidiuretic hormone in cases of excessive water retention and to “stretch” flexor digital tendons in neonatal foals."

Excellent Thanks.

Hugh 2

Calves here had retrovirus and cryptosporidium last year would these sort of additives be of any use for these?

bbam

Where do you get it.
We've used it in the past and indeed it seriously boosts appetite. But it's expensive stuff.

maxxuumman

Do you not risk antibiotic resistance using this stuff like this?

J.O. Farmer

Hugh 2 wrote: »

Calves here had retrovirus and cryptosporidium last year would these sort of additives be of any use for these?

No the retrovirus is a virus so antibiotics are no good against viruses and cryptosporidium is a protozoan so again antibiotics won't work.
This goes for antibiotics in general and not just oxytet.
On the subject what are regulations in relation to using antibiotics in animal feed as a prophylactic. Surely that kind of use over time will lead to a development of antibiotic resistance.

bbam

Last year we used it on six calves for two weeks. They had a snotty nose thing.
I was amazed how it boosted their intake. I don't like the idea of continuous feeding of it, But I can see how lads would go for it.

sheebadog

bbam wrote: »

Where do you get it.
We've used it in the past and indeed it seriously boosts appetite. But it's expensive stuff.

Get it from the Vêt. Its €100 for 5kg.

sheebadog

maxxuumman wrote: »

Do you not risk antibiotic resistance using this stuff like this?

Thats my thinking too.

greysides

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

On the subject what are regulations in relation to using antibiotics in animal feed as a prophylactic. Surely that kind of use over time will lead to a development of antibiotic resistance.

The problem with resistance is that it doesn't need the pathogenic bacteria to become resistant for there to be a problem. Any non-pathogenic bacteria that become resistant due to prolonged exposure, particularly at lower dosage rates, can be capable of passing on the resistance to the pathogenic bacteria. Essentially you are providing a Darwinian environment and genetically selecting the most resistant bacteria for survival.

Seeing as ruminant digestion requires bacteria, long courses are not recommended as they lead to digestive upsets.

CTC is closely related to one of the older,cheaper drugs that is commonly used. Nice to have an effective drug that doesn't cost the earth. Resistance to one is resistance to both.

What the legal position is, I don't know for sure, but I don't think it is legal.

Personally I'd wish the fleas of 1,000 camels infest the groin of anyone considering using it as a growth promoter. It's much too valuable in its' conventional role.

J.O. Farmer

You are 100% correct on your microbiology greysides. That is why I am wondering if it's legal or not because it should be illegal.
I did see something lately where the U.S. were bringing in tighter regulations in relation to using antibiotics as growth promoters and I thought the E.U. already had a ban in place.

Sarn

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

You are 100% correct on your microbiology greysides. That is why I am wondering if it's legal or not because it should be illegal.
I did see something lately where the U.S. were bringing in tighter regulations in relation to using antibiotics as growth promoters and I thought the E.U. already had a ban in place.

You're right, antibiotic use in animal feed as growth promoters has been banned in the EU for a few years. Press release here.

rancher

Sarn wrote: »

You're right, antibiotic use in animal feed as growth promoters has been banned in the EU for a few years. Press release here.

The dept of ag seem to enforce EU rules here much more strictly here than any other country based on what I've seen on my travels.
We are so dependent on exporting our produce, we cannot afford to be lax.

sheebadog

rancher wrote: »

The dept of ag seem to enforce EU rules here much more strictly here than any other country based on what I've seen on my travels.
We are so dependent on exporting our produce, we cannot afford to be lax.

Agree. EU civil servants (French) dream up these rules and the Irish fall over themselves enforcing them!

rancher

sheebadog wrote: »

Agree. EU civil servants (French) dream up these rules and the Irish fall over themselves enforcing them!

To be fair, antibiotics shouldn't be used for weeks on end.

sheebadog

rancher wrote: »

To be fair, antibiotics shouldn't be used for weeks on end.

Agree. Going to stop immediatly.
I would rather keep them until I really need them. Thanks All.

J.O. Farmer

sheebadog wrote: »

Agree. EU civil servants (French) dream up these rules and the Irish fall over themselves enforcing them!

While I wouldn't always agree with regulations dreamed up by someone sitting in an office who thinks milk comesffrom a bottle I fully agree with these. Greysides post explains it very well. People should also realise antibiotic resistance developed in animals will lead to humans getting infections which are also resistant.

knockmulliner

Antibiotic resistance is a problem to be avoided. It has been recommended to me to use only beastings from cows not treated with dry cow antibiotic on replacement heifers to avoid it

sheebadog

knockmulliner wrote: »

Antibiotic resistance is a problem to be avoided. It has been recommended to me to use only beastings from cows not treated with dry cow antibiotic on replacement heifers to avoid it

That seems extreme. Do you do that?

knockmulliner

Calf will get first beastings from it's mother after that try to use treated cows on bulls and untreated on breeding heifers.

mcballer

This thread is really interesting to me. I'm a food Scientist doing a Thesis on Antibiotic Resistant Bacteria in meat products. Its interesting to read from the farmer perspective not just the scientists side of things.
Indeed The EU have banned the use of Antibiotics for Growth Promotion. The US have made moves to try curb this practice in Industry, but being the US, its a voluntary step as yet.:rolleyes:
But the major moves in the EU is to always think - Judicial Use of antibiotics. Antibiotics are so precious to humans.
Also, Resistance in Human and Animal medicine can never be considered separately. As bacteria respect no boundaries. Don't know why I'm rabbiting on, but doing some research for said thesis today.....and it would put the frighteners up ya. How if your unlucky to get struck with an infection that would be usually easily treated and the bacteria is highly resistant....it could result in a world of pain or even curtains. Respect the antibiotics, cause they could in fact save your life.

Base price

MRSA been a good example :mad:

sheebadog

Base price wrote: »

MRSA been a good example :mad:

I dont think that use of antibiotics in farm animals can be blamed for all woes.

Base price

sheebadog wrote: »

I dont think that use of antibiotics in farm animals can be blamed for all woes.

True, but one wonders why there is an EU ban on ad lib use of them then and why we have VPO and POM - something to do with protecting the consumer I think.

J.O. Farmer

Base price wrote: »

True, but one wonders why there is an EU ban on ad lib use of them then and why we have VPO and POM - something to do with protecting the consumer I think.

I'm a microbiologist and a farmer and I think that everybody whether they be vet, doctor, farmer or joe/Jane Bloggs has responsibility to use antibiotics properly. Check out greysides post for exactly why overuse of antibiotics is a bad idea and realise he's not just talking about animal health.
MRSA is a good example of the problems antibiotic resistance causes especially since the M could stand for multi drug and not just methicillin that certain strains are becoming resistant to vancomycin one of the few antibiotics left to treat MRSA.

mcballer

animal use is not responsible for all our woes. But animal and human issues must be considered together.....the problem requires a 'holistic' approach. Also antibiotics are excreted out in active form so they are present in the environment too. The WHO believe antibiotic resistant bacteria to be a possible major threat to public health and the use of antibiotics needs to be given more care. For some people the infections they get can not b treated easily. Humans are goosed if this situation is left unchecked...