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RDF Non-Effective List

  • 18-01-2014 11:29pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 47


    Hi lads,

    I've been part of the Reserve Defence Forces for the lads 6 years in which I attained the rank of Cpl as well as numerous corps specific courses. My record and attendance has always been of a very high standard. Unfortunately due to poor attendance and a lack of training nights and field days due to a focus on my job, I have been placed on the Non-Effective list for the first time. I have signed and dated my request papers to get off the Non-Effective list. My questions are:

    1) How long does it take to process your paperwork.

    2) How long does it take to return to active duty in the RDF.

    3) Does being on the Non-Effective list affect your record in a negative way.

    Thanks for the replies.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    2) The Non-Effective list is either going or gone, thankfully (it'll be complete your KPIs or get thrown out from now on).

    Given the lack of places, anyone who went 'non-effective' in the past year or so is in the danger zone for discharge. I'd get back in there as soon as possible and show your face.


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 TacAide


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    2) The Non-Effective list is either going or gone, thankfully (it'll be complete your KPIs or get thrown out from now on).

    Given the lack of places, anyone who went 'non-effective' in the past year or so is in the danger zone for discharge. I'd get back in there as soon as possible and show your face.

    I had hear that alright, which is what I was afraid of, love the RDF and would crush me to lose it, but the officers of my own unit have been unfortunately slow to help and guide me, would I be allowed to just start showing up at training?.

    Or are there any other routes I can exploit?.

    Thanks again for the reply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    TacAide wrote: »
    I had hear that alright, which is what I was afraid of, love the RDF and would crush me to lose it, but the officers of my own unit have been unfortunately slow to help and guide me, would I be allowed to just start showing up at training?.

    Or are there any other routes I can exploit?.

    Thanks again for the reply.

    Your RDFRA rep would be the first person to get on the case, if you know who that is. As I say, the big danger right now is getting struck off completely. I'm sorry to hear that your officers aren't proving much help. I'd keep plugging away with continued contact to try to move it along.


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 TacAide


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    Your RDFRA rep would be the first person to get on the case, if you know who that is. As I say, the big danger right now is getting struck off completely. I'm sorry to hear that your officers aren't proving much help. I'd keep plugging away with continued contact to try to move it along.

    I havent put down the phone once yet, keep on to my superiors and other NCOs that could possibly help me. Thanks again for the advice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 62 Reserve Battalion


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    Your RDFRA rep would be the first person to get on the case, if you know who that is.

    Forget RDFRA - waste of time. By the time they get around to dealing with it... and assuming they can deal with it, things will have gone on too long. And their answer is likely to be they can't help. Last people you should go to.

    How to resolve the matter.
    1. Ensure you were put on the non-effective list correctly. The KPIs are still not legally binding - DFR R5 is. Do a list of the training you did complete this year, work out the hours completed and see if it exceeds the required 48hrs.
    If it does, then you should not be on the non-effective list. If this is the case, you need to get whomever is dealing with the list to double check your hours, ensuring that they were correctly recorded. Forget this crap of "you only did x numbers of training parades etc" - that does not matter - your hours are what matter and it doesn't make any difference how you gained them. There is no requirement to do X number of training parades or weekends etc.... just 48hours. That is it. If someone disagrees with this, then point to DFR R5 Paras 39 & 49. You can't argue with the Ministers signature. It is the Officer Commanding your unit (PDF) who puts you on the non-effective list - no one else. He may work off the advice of others but he is the one who signs it. If you are in-correctly on the list, he is the one you should talk to if you are getting no satisfaction anywhere else. Go through your chain of command and request to meet with him. MAKE SURE you are right in your calculations before you do so. More than likely people will panic before this and realise they screwed up and will undo the listing - they are relying on you not creating a fuss.

    2. If you are on the non-effective list correctly, then you need to apply to the GOC for permission to be removed from the non-effective list and back onto the effective strength of your unit (DFR R5 Para 50). This creates a paper trail. Don't take any crap from anyone about not being allowed to do this. If anyone argues with you that you cannot do this, put DFR R5 in front of them with the ministers signature and ask them for their written documentation backing up what they are saying. Follow the paper trail. But if the GOC says no......then you are screwed.

    Big problem with all this is DFR R5 is being rewritten and the new one will soon be the legal one. I have no idea what this will say and may make the whole thing moot. So move fast.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    The Old R5 is the current one, it doesn't matter if the Minister sings the new one when looking at 2013, the old one was law then and regulations cannot be applied retrospectively. Imagine if the speed limit was dropped from 120km/hr to 90km/hr on motorways in 2014 and you got a speeding fine for doing 110km/hr in March 2013.

    If you are made non-effective then you will or should receive a formal notification (AF463) outlining why. Along with this form should be a form that you can fill in requesting to be taken off of the non-effective list and back on to your unit books. Should be a formality.

    If you have done 48hrs in 2013 then write to your CO telling him you think it is in error.


  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    The KPIs are still not legally binding - DFR R5 is.

    KPI's as defined by the military authorities are law where they don't conflict with R5. So you can be deemed to have not met your KPI's but cannot be discharged because of it, yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 62 Reserve Battalion


    OwenM wrote: »
    KPI's as defined by the military authorities are law where they don't conflict with R5. So you can be deemed to have not met your KPI's but cannot be discharged because of it, yet.

    But the KPIs (taken from AdminO 1/13) DO conflict with the Effectiveness criteria as laid down in DFR R5. You may not meet your KPIs, but under the current rule you can still be effective and may not be discharged.

    In saying all this, going through this whole procedure makes sense if you just had a bad year and expect to meet the effectiveness criteria for 2014. If you are just trying to stop from being discharged from the RDF and have no intention of meeting the KPIs for 2014, then you are wasting your time and ours. I'm not saying that you are, TacAide, but just putting it out to other people who are reading this.

    And to the people who created this legal mess by putting out the AdminO a year ago and not following it up with the DFR - stop leaving things to the last minute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    .....In saying all this, going through this whole procedure makes sense if you just had a bad year and expect to meet the effectiveness criteria for 2014. If you are just trying to stop from being discharged from the RDF and have no intention of meeting the KPIs for 2014, then you are wasting your time and ours....


    Very true. The reserve is looking for a more even commitment from its members. I know there are people who give a lot lot more than others but there are people who give very little as well. The DF is increasing the minimum standard required from all members - and hopefully will reward those that give a lot more with promotions, course choices etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 TacAide


    OwenM wrote: »
    Very true. The reserve is looking for a more even commitment from its members. I know there are people who give a lot lot more than others but there are people who give very little as well. The DF is increasing the minimum standard required from all members - and hopefully will reward those that give a lot more with promotions, course choices etc.

    I know exactly what you are saying, I was always showing up, putting my name down for course also keeping myself physically in shape, ever since I signed up in September 2006, but unfortunately when my job got a little bit too demanding, and with the whole reorg. I was unable to the dedicated performance and the give time to the RDF I had had once given.

    Was speaking to one of my officers during the weekend about my situation, an exceptional officer, he now unfortunately has to resign his commission due to work commitments and he's finding it difficult to show up for training.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭ace86


    TacAide wrote: »
    Hi lads,

    I've been part of the Reserve Defence Forces for the lads 6 years in which I attained the rank of Cpl as well as numerous corps specific courses. My record and attendance has always been of a very high standard. Unfortunately due to poor attendance and a lack of training nights and field days due to a focus on my job, I have been placed on the Non-Effective list for the first time. I have signed and dated my request papers to get off the Non-Effective list. My questions are:

    1) How long does it take to process your paperwork.

    2) How long does it take to return to active duty in the RDF.

    3) Does being on the Non-Effective list affect your record in a negative way.

    Thanks for the replies.

    1. I think roughly 3 weeks is what i'm told a member of our unit is in the same situation and thats what he was told and he will be informed is he in or out.That list you will be on for 2yrs before being discharged.
    2.when yo get a letter from your PDF C.O saying you have been re enlisted to the unit you can show up at the nxt training nite/wknd, but i would advise you do your best to show up it could come back to bite ya in the ass bcos if ya don't they could throw ya back on it again and it would be no hope of come back. My Unit put 20 people I know on it people with 10-30 yrs experience and alot of people couldnt come to the Rdf due to work and family commitments which I feel is understandable.
    3. If your discharged as being non-effective you still get an Honourable Discharge but on your papers for reason of Discharge is "Non Effective". If your family every wanted to look up your service record in years it's mybe something you wouldnt want them to see but thats down to individual.

    I think R5 is going to be changed this yr from what I hear and rumour has it you must have your I.T test done before you can go to camp from here on in.


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