What is the maximum ADSL speed from my line?

manshay

I am very confused what speed broadband my line can deliver.
I am in Kilmoganny, South Kilkenny, (KMG) 051. Ireland offline states the exchange is 1.1KM away as the crow flies. It also states the exchange is capable of 24MB.
I am with Vodafone, I agreed to renew my contract in Dec as they said they could increase my max speed to 15MB(up from max 7.6MB). After a week of no speed increase, I called again, they then said there was internal noise within my property either my alarm or internal cabling. I had an alarm engineer out to install a filter on the alarm(should have been done on install, D'Oh!), who disabled the two additional phone points.

So now the phone line comes in to alarm then adsl filter, then modem.
I then rang Vodafone again to make sure my line was now setup for 15MB, they said it can't be done as "there are old lines connecting you to the exchange". They removed the contract renewal so I can move to another provider.

When I contacted the providers they all give different maximum speeds available:
Vodafone sales 15MB!, Eircom 15MB(on a €68 per month plan?), UTV 15MB on a €38.50 plan!, Sky 6.8MB(and not in their networtk so €10 extra a month).

Who is telling the truth, who is telling porkies? What is the maximum speed ?
Should I just try UTV?

Billion 7800N Modem broadband specs below:
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode G.DMT
Upstream 384
Downstream 7168
SNR Margin(Upstream) 18.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 13.3
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 14.0
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 23.0
Help!!!!!

flamegrill

Eircom provide the service to everyone else. It's hard to tell what your SNR etc will be when moved to ADSL2+

My stats for ADSL2+ (23Mbit/s) are:

D U
Signal-to-noise ratio dB 5 12
Line attenuation dB 6 4

These would be considered very good figures by eircom, you need to have an SNR below 6 in order to get put on a profile above 20Mbit/s.

Changing provider probably won't help. Internal cabling was an issue for me, I was on 8Mbit/s first and then I change things up and got 20Mbit/s and then I asked Eircom tech support to temporarily move me to the Up to 24Mbit/s profile and I was able to get 23Mbit/s.

ED E

In a lab enviornment thats a 19Mb line. Real world you should manage 15 ok.

manshay wrote: »

So now the phone line comes in to alarm then adsl filter, then modem.

This sounds incorrect. It should be line---NTU(Double socket from the tech)--Modem and alarm. The alarm needs to be after the master socket so the filter protects the broadband. But if its working thats what they did.

The physical line is capable of more, so if vodafone wont give more they're either A, incompetent, or B, the exchange has no free ADSL2+ ports so you're on an ADSL port which will do 7.6Mb at most. Best ask their tech support exactly why its not possible.

bealtine

ED E wrote: »

This sounds incorrect. It should be line---NTU(Double socket from the tech)--Modem and alarm. The alarm needs to be after the master socket so the filter protects the broadband. But if its working thats what they did.

I'd agree with this...
I'd even go as far as to say that line (in ideal conditions) can do > 20Mbs.

My guess would be that the alarm is wired up wonky ways or there are no more ADSL2 ports available.

manshay

bealtine wrote: »

I'd agree with this...
I'd even go as far as to say that line (in ideal conditions) can do > 20Mbs.

My guess would be that the alarm is wired up wonky ways or there are no more ADSL2 ports available.

Mea culpa! Typo!

Wiring was like that, prior to alarm company call.
It's now:
Eircom wiring to adsl filter within alarm to only socket, another filter, adsl modem.

Strangely my modem figures were similar before install of filter on alarm.

My exchange is a small village in the country, can't imagine there are too many connections in it, meaning I doubt it's a lack of adsl+2 ports.
So how can I find out if all adsl+2 ports are used??
How can eircom and utv sales sell me 15mb if there are no ports in my exchange?

Really appreciate the answers, as speaking to the teleco's "helplines" is less than enlightening. They know I'm not a technician so fob me off with BS or their lack of knowledge (my supervisor said...)

bealtine

manshay wrote: »

Wiring was like that, prior to alarm company call.
It's now:
Eircom wiring to adsl filter within alarm to only socket, another filter, adsl modem.

This is wrong...get it fixed.

manshay

bealtine wrote: »

This is wrong...get it fixed.

Just to clarify before I speak to the alarm company..

Should be eircom line in to adsl filter
(i) to modem
(ii) to telephone and alarm from the other port on adsl filter.

Is there somewhere on the web where this is laid down, as when I ask the alarm company out again I do not want to pay another call out charge!
I presume you are saying they have wired this wrongly?

bealtine

manshay wrote: »

I presume you are saying they have wired this wrongly?
It's now:
Eircom wiring to adsl filter within alarm to only socket, another filter, adsl modem.

Ed-E outlined how it should be done earlier

There should not be a filter before the modem under any circumstances

lucernarian

bealtine wrote: »

Ed-E outlined how it should be done earlier

There should not be a filter before the modem under any circumstances

I think there may be an issue of terminology here. The line will have to go into "a filter", it's more that the white eircom box with two sockets (http://i.imgur.com/Z1XZa.jpg) will have a splitter inside where one output goes directly to the modem and the other output goes via a filter, then to the alarm and then to the other socket marked telephone on the white box and also to any other sockets around the house.

So no "microfilter" e.g. http://www.1stcomms.co.uk/images/source/ADSL-Microfilter-AM-001.gif needed as the white eircom box separates the modem and alarm/telephone connections and filters the latter. It's all done inside the one socket as you know but there's a chance the OP is referring to that new socket as the "filter".

There certainly shouldn't be a second filter no matter how it's wired up though.

fat-tony

There may be terminology issues here as other posters have said. The NTU (white box) image that @To Be Confirmed has posted looks like the VDSL NTU that eircom install when they convert a house over to eFibre. This box has a built-in microfilter and separates the modem side (unfiltered) from the POTS (plain old telephone service) side - essentially it splits them. Internal to this NTU is a four connector block which services the alarm loop. The alarm must be the first connection on the POTS so that it can "seize" the line if any of the telephones in the house are off the hook. In normal operation the alarm just passes the phone signal back down to loop to the house phones via the NTU. In an alarm condition it disconnects the house phones, but if you are using one of these new NTUs, the broadband is unaffected.

As the OP is referring to an ADSL environment he/she may not have an NTU in place, but may just have an older junction box. Prior to getting eFibre two months ago I had just a small junction box in the hall with an alarm loop in it, plus an extension running to my ADSL modem, plus an extension to the main phone. The line pair coming into my house was looped into the alarm box first and fed back to the house phone, modem extension. The result was the alarm would disconnect the modem anytime it was tested. With the installation of the NTU all is ok now and effectively the broadband service is now isolated from the POTS.

As others have indicated, there should be no filter on the modem in any circumstance and if you have one of these newer NTUs, no device needs a filter as it is built in to the NTU.

lucernarian

fat-tony wrote: »

There may be terminology issues here as other posters have said. The NTU (white box) image that @To Be Confirmed has posted looks like the VDSL NTU that eircom install when they convert a house over to eFibre. This box has a built-in microfilter and separates the modem side (unfiltered) from the POTS (plain old telephone service) side - essentially it splits them. Internal to this NTU is a four connector block which services the alarm loop. The alarm must be the first connection on the POTS so that it can "seize" the line if any of the telephones in the house are off the hook. In normal operation the alarm just passes the phone signal back down to loop to the house phones via the NTU. In an alarm condition it disconnects the house phones, but if you are using one of these new NTUs, the broadband is unaffected.

As the OP is referring to an ADSL environment he/she may not have an NTU in place, but may just have an older junction box. Prior to getting eFibre two months ago I had just a small junction box in the hall with an alarm loop in it, plus an extension running to my ADSL modem, plus an extension to the main phone. The line pair coming into my house was looped into the alarm box first and fed back to the house phone, modem extension. The result was the alarm would disconnect the modem anytime it was tested. With the installation of the NTU all is ok now and effectively the broadband service is now isolated from the POTS.

As others have indicated, there should be no filter on the modem in any circumstance and if you have one of these newer NTUs, no device needs a filter as it is built in to the NTU.

There was supposed to be a filtered NTU installed whenever ADSL was provided as the eircom one I linked to contained terminals inside which allowed for the phone line to be passed through the alarm first before going to the phone socket or other extensions wired to the faceplate terminal. I think there were 2 zero-ohm resistors that had to be cut to enable the line to go to the alarm and disconnect the remaining phone sockets, were the alarm to be tested or activated.

This was the case for a long time from 2002 onwards but eircom phonewatch had to be contacted and charged €80 for doing the necessary line work. Not sure if that charge still applies.

Also, when the option was available for linesman on-site installs, they usually fitted the filtered NTU. The eircom logo used to be all-white on the older ones. When I got a line installed in Dublin about 4 or 5 years ago, I told the linesman that it was for broadband and he fitted a filtered master socket there and then, no questions asked. It might be standard practise now to fit them to any new install?

ED E

Nothing like a bitta paint.


NB: Right socket is also filtered(one for Phone/Fax/Alarm/Sky)

SNR Margin(Upstream) 18.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 13.3

Thats healthy enough at 7, so I suspect they did it right unless your connection has been intermittent.

fat-tony

I got eircom ADSL broadband 11/12 years ago and never got a change in the termination point in the hall. Even after a line pair swap about four years ago to resolve a voice line fault they didn't change the crappy little connection box. Only with the eFibre install was the NTU installed and I just wasn't sure whether it was the same as the earlier models as I had nothing to compare it with.
I was just concerned that the OP was in a similar situation to me prior to eFibre, with a "rat's nest" of wiring stuffed into a little box on the skirting board.

manshay

I was onto Vodafone technical support again,
(1)yes my line can take 15MB but I am on the wrong package. We will increase your speed call back in 4 hours if it doesn't work.
(2)Immediately my speed decreased, They actually decreased my package (according to my modem to 6MB, all other figures stayed the same)
(3)called again 4 hours later to query speed loss, customer care "don't know why that happened"
(4)Customer care said "you are on a package that can give upto 70MB in efibre areas, upto 24MB otherwise, shouldn't be a problem".
(5)Back to technical support, "you cannot get 15MB on your package".
(6) Back to customer care "technical support say you cannot have 15MB on your line and package".

However You can have 15MB on a broadband only package,BUT your landline would have to go.

Does this make sense?

ED E

Their heads are up their arses.

bealtine

manshay wrote: »

I was onto Vodafone technical support again,
(1)yes my line can take 15MB but I am on the wrong package. We will increase your speed call back in 4 hours if it doesn't work.
(2)Immediately my speed decreased, They actually decreased my package (according to my modem to 6MB, all other figures stayed the same)
(3)called again 4 hours later to query speed loss, customer care "don't know why that happened"
(4)Customer care said "you are on a package that can give upto 70MB in efibre areas, upto 24MB otherwise, shouldn't be a problem".
(5)Back to technical support, "you cannot get 15MB on your package".
(6) Back to customer care "technical support say you cannot have 15MB on your line and package".

However You can have 15MB on a broadband only package,BUT your landline would have to go.

Does this make sense?

sounds like pure crap to me

dazdrog

flamegrill wrote: »

Eircom provide the service to everyone else. It's hard to tell what your SNR etc will be when moved to ADSL2+

My stats for ADSL2+ (23Mbit/s) are:

D U
Signal-to-noise ratio dB 5 12
Line attenuation dB 6 4

These would be considered very good figures by eircom, you need to have an SNR below 6 in order to get put on a profile above 20Mbit/s.

Changing provider probably won't help. Internal cabling was an issue for me, I was on 8Mbit/s first and then I change things up and got 20Mbit/s and then I asked Eircom tech support to temporarily move me to the Up to 24Mbit/s profile and I was able to get 23Mbit/s.

you couldnt be more incorrect, a SNR of below 6 is not very good figures by any ADSL ISP. below 6db = disconnects above 6db is more a stable line

manshay

Thanks for all the help and advice. After more than 2 hours of calls I have been upgraded. Apparently my package was not configured properly.




These are my stats:

Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 1021
Downstream 15357
SNR Margin(Upstream) 11.9
SNR Margin(Downstream) 8.1
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 13.7
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 25.0

sawdoubters

eircom will give you less speed as will sky,sky uses eircom line

http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/guides/adsl_and_distance.aspx

ED E

manshay wrote: »

Thanks for all the help and advice. After more than 2 hours of calls I have been upgraded. Apparently my package was not configured properly.




These are my stats:

Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 1021
Downstream 15357
SNR Margin(Upstream) 11.9
SNR Margin(Downstream) 8.1
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 13.7
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 25.0

Thats bang on where it should be. They finally got it right. Enjoy.

sawdoubters wrote: »

eircom will give you less speed as will sky,sky uses eircom line

http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/guides/adsl_and_distance.aspx

BS. They all use eircom lines and can all provide the same speed.

manshay

ED E wrote: »

Thats bang on where it should be. They finally got it right. Enjoy.



BS. They all use eircom lines and can all provide the same speed.

Sky couldn't provide this speed at all, Eircom would only offer it on an uneconomic plan (€68 per month WTF?)is there a major wholesale cost difference to the ISP between upto 8MB and upto 24MB?

fat-tony

manshay wrote: »

Thanks for all the help and advice. After more than 2 hours of calls I have been upgraded. Apparently my package was not configured properly.




These are my stats:

Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 1021
Downstream 15357
SNR Margin(Upstream) 11.9
SNR Margin(Downstream) 8.1
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 13.7
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 25.0

Well done for your perseverance. It's just amazing all the spin and bs you were subjected to before finally someone who knew what they were doing sorted out your issue - probably with a couple of keyboard commands :rolleyes: