National Museum of Ireland Mistakes

MasterSun

Damn, it's another raining Saturday in Ireland, so I re-visited the National Museum of Ireland at Collins barracks and decided to give myself a challenge -- to see how many mistakes that the museum has made. Here are my findings:


No 1. Numismatic section

The 1988 50P Proof coin was made of Silver?



I have a certificate from the central bank says otherwise.
Unless 75% Copper + 25% Nickel = 100% Silver (Yes, I aced chemistry)

Neeson

The ones in distribution were silver though.

MasterSun

No. 2 Military section

Medals are in wrong order, they don't match the description section
The medal in the middle is the long service medal should be marked "B", the one next to it is the UN medal for service in Cyprus; they should switch places.

MasterSun

No 3. Asian Art

Guanyin Porcelain

The quote from Albert (2nd pic below) is incorrect.
The majority of Chinese would call Avalokiteśvara "Guanyin" or "Guanshiyin".
The Tibetan name for Avalokiteśvara is "Chenrezig".

MasterSun

No 4. Asian Art

The info on Chinese Dynasties is misleading, there were at least 5 dynasties before Han and certainly before BC. (I know we are in a Catholic country but this is history.)




From wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history

Judgement Day

I think that the National Museum of Ireland and especially their former Director, Pat Wallace, have made more serious mistakes than the incorrect labelling of a few exhibits at the Collins Barracks. Their elitist attitude to what should be preserved in museums has lead to the 'Hay Shed' in Howth amongst many other things.

MasterSun

No 5. Porcelain Wares

Chinese Chess sets
Chinese Chess set is an ambiguous term, in this case, it should be called Chinese themed chess pieces, because Chinese chess is another board game with different pieces and rules.




Chinese Chess

MasterSun

No 6. Porcelain Wares

Japanese portraits? (yes, they put portraits in Porcelain Wares section)
These two are clearly Manchurian, not Japanese. They were possibly painted by an European artist.
The man in the left portrait is Ye Mingchen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Mingchen

MasterSun

No 7. Porcelain Wares

This is the funniest of all. I believe these are cosmetic jars from a brothel.
In the "golden" days, Asian brothels used to give souvenirs (such as pillow cases or cosmetic jars) to their customers, this was used as a marketing method to retain a regular customer pool.

I don't want to think how the the museum got a hold of these jars.

Blade

Neeson wrote: »

The ones in distribution were silver though.

No, they were Cupronickel (copper & nickel) too.

gobnaitolunacy

Write them a 'strongly worded letter'.

gobnaitolunacy

Judgement Day wrote: »

I think that the National Museum of Ireland and especially their former Director, Pat Wallace, have made more serious mistakes than the incorrect labelling of a few exhibits at the Collins Barracks. Their elitist attitude to what should be preserved in museums has lead to the 'Hay Shed' in Howth amongst many other things.

Unless it was some oul chalice or a brooch they're just not interested.

MasterSun

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Write them a 'strongly worded letter'.

I contacted them about mistake 1 and mistake 2 four months ago, talked to their receptionist and filled a feedback form. I was told their main curator is working in a museum in America and other museum staffs are not allowed to touch the displays. Then in October, I got an email reply from them, see below, heard nothing from curator S and nothing has been corrected so far. Typical civil servant's attitude!

johnny_doyle

a couple of mistakes in the Soldiers and Chiefs exhibition area :

a. shell retrieved from the GPO in the 1920's listed as a 12pounder instead of an 18pounder
b. a "Corporal" in the South Irish Horse is actually a Private with Good Conduct Stripes rather than Corporal stripes.
c. an audio track re Cadet MacKay who was held prisoner in Boland's Mill during the Rising; the audio mentions that MacKay was later killed in WW1 (based on an article in Irish Sword); however, Mackay wrote to De Valera in the 1950's about his time as his prisoner during the Rising and it was a different MacKay killed in WW1.

The NLI recently updated some photos from the War of Independence that were incorrectly labelled, having originally contacted them 2 years ago about the error.

I confess to being a pedant re the Easter Rising/War of Independence and there are numerous blogs and books out there with errors. With some books, the errors don't detract from the overall quality of the material and can be considered "genuine errors" - especially older books where the author perhaps didn't have access to the wide range of material now available online; in others I tend to become irritated by the errors which come across as sloppy bits of work.

kabakuyu

johnny_doyle wrote: »

a couple of mistakes in the Soldiers and Chiefs exhibition area
b. a "Corporal" in the South Irish Horse is actually a Private with Good Conduct Stripes rather than Corporal stripes.
.

Spot on Johnny.

feelgoodinc27

Judgement Day wrote: »

I think that the National Museum of Ireland and especially their former Director, Pat Wallace, have made more serious mistakes than the incorrect labelling of a few exhibits at the Collins Barracks. Their elitist attitude to what should be preserved in museums has lead to the 'Hay Shed' in Howth amongst many other things.

whats that parked outside?

Neeson

feelgoodinc27 wrote: »

whats that parked outside?

The tank that shot Hogan in Croke Park I think.

johnny_doyle

I believe the vehicle in the photo is a Timoney Armoured Personnel Carrier. Designed and built in Ireland


The vehicle used in the attack at Croke Park was a Rolls Royce armoured car.

Wild_Dogger

I think you guys are too quick on the trigger to call mistakes.

I can see a few mistakes in your own attributions.

Guanyin or 'Kuanyin' is perfectly correct and is the Wade Giles romanization.
You'll need to look up the W.G to Pinyin to discover

Also the chess set is perfect - it is Chinese but made in Canton specifically for the Western market - dating to the middle of the 19th century.

These Japanese powder boxes would have been way too expensive to hand out as souvenirs. They would have been extremely expensive to produce and were designed on the Chinese prototype exclusively for the rich Western market.

As for the dynasties chart - well the Archaic Dynasties were extremely limited and the Han dynasty was the turning point for the arts.

Too much nit-picking and if you want to call foul on their expertise then you need to be sure about your facts.

Judgement Day

I'm sure about my facts concerning the legacy of Pat Wallace and the elite who are charged with looking after our heritage.

Wild_Dogger

Obviously I was not referring to your contribution J . D (as you can see from my post above)

Anyway - tell us more about the mistakes if you have some info !

MasterSun

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

I think you guys are too quick on the trigger to call mistakes.

I can see a few mistakes in your own attributions.

Guanyin or 'Kuanyin' is perfectly correct and is the Wade Giles romanization.
You'll need to look up the W.G to Pinyin to discover

Thanks for your post.

The Tibetan name for Avalokiteśvara is not "Guanyin", so the error was spotted correctly.

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Also the chess set is perfect - it is Chinese but made in Canton specifically for the Western market - dating to the middle of the 19th century.

The mistake is in the labelling - "Chinese Chess sets" can mean a different thing.

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

As for the dynasties chart - well the Archaic Dynasties were extremely limited and the Han dynasty was the turning point for the arts.

This is your personal opinion and it's not a valid excuse for omitting the early dynasties cause one can use the same logic to argue the case that none of the Chinese dynasties should be included.
The indisputable fact is that there were dynasties before the Han Dynasty.

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

These Japanese powder boxes would have been way too expensive to hand out as souvenirs. They would have been extremely expensive to produce and were designed on the Chinese prototype exclusively for the rich Western market.

On the contrary, cosmetic jars such as in the picture were cheaply produced in Asia, it is only when they were sold overseas, they became expensive.

johnny_doyle

johnny_doyle wrote: »

b. a "Corporal" in the South Irish Horse is actually a Private with Good Conduct Stripes rather than Corporal stripes.

The South Irish Horse uniform appears near the start of this video (link just popped up on Facebook)

http://www.rte.ie/centuryireland/watch/the-british-military-in-ireland-1914

johnny_doyle

spot the small mistake on this one ..... ?

http://photogallery.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/displayimage.php?album=38&pid=285#top_display_media

Rubberchikken

Pedantic, much?

Judgement Day

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Pedantic, much?

Sloppy though - reminds of the 1901/11 censuses.

johnny_doyle

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Pedantic, much?

absolutely. See confession in post 14. It is only a small mistake and doesn't detract from the good work on the other pages.

This pedantry unfortunately brought on by an Easter Rising video clip with "actual footage" that started off with 2 National Army soldiers firing on the Four Courts.... Not a video clip from the National Library or Defence Forces archives I'm happy to say.

Sadly, there's too much sloppy work out there re the Easter Rising that gets lapped up e.g.

http://www.theirishstory.com/2012/04/13/the-north-king-street-massacre-dublin-1916/

Wild_Dogger

MasterSun wrote: »

Thanks for your post.

The Tibetan name for Avalokiteśvara is not "Guanyin", so the error was spotted correctly.

Fair Enough - I thought you were highlighting the variation of spelling.
I didn't know what the Tibetan term was either


The mistake is in the labeling - "Chinese Chess sets" can mean a different thing.

Nah - Labelled perfectly correctly I'm afraid, it's a chess set in the Chinese art section


This is your personal opinion and it's not a valid excuse for omitting the early dynasties cause one can use the same logic to argue the case that none of the Chinese dynasties should be included.
The indisputable fact is that there were dynasties before the Han Dynasty.

Just like art from George V reign ? - it's not Georgian
Nor do we live in the Elizabethan era !
Not my personal opinion, that's just they way it is defined.


On the contrary, cosmetic jars such as in the picture were cheaply produced in Asia, it is only when they were sold overseas, they became expensive.

Certainly not cheaply produced, in fact if there is a possibility of an error then it is that the circular boxes are Chinese rather than Japanese.
However assuming they are Japanese then they date to a period long before the ports were forced by the Brits.

The only cheap thing there is the vase between the boxes, it has no place in a discerning collection never mind a museum.

Thats my 2 cents worth - I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything like it. But in my own line of work I often see people go to great lengths to expose any error they can find. It pises me off to be honest.
I don't know if they get a kick out of it - maybe they think they are intellectually superior or something ?
I just put my 2 bobs worth in to level the field - since the museum cannot defend themselves here

Anyhow, I'm sorry if I've caused offense, particularly to MasterSun.
You clearly know your field and it is me who is trying to nit-pick on this occasion.
I have a bias against this kind of thing ,stemming from previous experiences as outlined earlier.

As for the tank sitting out to rot ..... yeah it's a disgrace !

o

johnny_doyle

not just Irish Museums that make mistakes....

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205298696

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205298697