Wrong brake fluid

jesse pinkman

I changed the front brake pads on my wife's 04 Trajet 2.0l petrol, no prob there but the fluids low so I top up with new & bleed them, I notice that the new fluid they've given me is a bit pissie in consistency & a luminous green colour, however they know best right? I took it for a quick spin & all seemed grand.
Next day (Yesterday) my wife is doing the school run when she calls to say that the brakes are locking & it's stuck in first gear. Luckily it wasn't too far away & once it cooled down I managed to get it home. Went back into the auto shop & explained what happened, they apologised & gave me the correct stuff & advised me to bleed all four brakes which leads to my question, will just bleeding the brakes be sufficient, what about the clutch which shares the same reservoir does the whole system not need flushing out?
And if that is the case, is this something I can do or am I better off bringing it to a mechanic?
Thanks

gctest50

If it was incompatible fluid ( mineral maybe ? ) it could have damaged every seal in the car.
Can lead to sudden brake failure.

Don't drive it - get it transported to a mechanic

jesse pinkman

****e, I was doing it myself to save a few bob, is this gonna be a costly mistake?

I hardly have any comeback from the car parts place do I?

visual

Get a turkey baster to suck out as much fluid as you can from reservoir. Top off with new correct fluid then bled the four wheels keeping the brake reservoir topped up.

Mechanic probably do it all in a hour but DIY probably double that time

As your brake and clutch are the same reservoir bottle then you'll need to blead the clutch too

jesse pinkman

Thanks, I'll give that a go tomorrow, need to go off now & research the bleeding clutch as I haven't done that bit before.

PADRAIC.M

Just wondering what kind of fluid did you get first off??

jesse pinkman

I don't think I even read the label Padraic, I'd never seen stuff like it though, florescent green pish.

visual

Clutch bleeding is done at slave cylinder that is mounted next to the clutch release arm.
It has a bleed nipple like the one you will find on your brake calipers.

You bleed it same way you bleed the brakes except your using clutch peddle.

Don't let the clutch brake reservoir run dry as you dont want to suck air into system. So keep it topped up as you bleed system

jesse pinkman

Just checking the code on the second bottle of fluid they gave me with the code on the Trajet Manual I downloaded & they appear to be different.

On the manual it specifys SAE J1703 (DOT3), but what they've given me this time is FBX100 (DOT4). Does anyone know if this is ok to use?

bucketybuck

jesse pinkman wrote: »

Just checking the code on the second bottle of fluid they gave me with the code on the Trajet Manual I downloaded & they appear to be different.

On the manual it specifys SAE J1703 (DOT3), but what they've given me this time is FBX100 (DOT4). Does anyone know if this is ok to use?

With the greatest of respect, if you don't already know what brake fluid you should be using then you shouldn't be messing about with your cars brakes.

jesse pinkman

bucketybuck wrote: »

With the greatest of respect, if you don't already know what brake fluid you should be using then you shouldn't be messing about with your cars brakes.

Well thats not very helpful is it.

Renegade Mechanic

jesse pinkman wrote: »

I don't think I even read the label Padraic, I'd never seen stuff like it though, florescent green pish.

Mineral brake fluid. Its what classic cars used before synthetic fluid became the norm. Can be a costly mistake as the two types react with each other and the mineral fluid will damage the seals and rubber pipes. Id remove as much fluid as possible from the reservoir and to play it saft, Id replace the master cylinder under it, generally around 60-90 quid in an autofactor. It shouldnt have diluted as far as the rubber pipes or brakes them selves as you only topped up and short term contact wont do damage so bleeding normally will be fine. Tbh how it was so easily handed to you, given that synthetic is used on all cars since the eighties or before is quite strange. Its not illegal to store it but its common practice to store it away so it can only be sold to customers with older cars who specifically request it.

Renegade Mechanic

jesse pinkman wrote: »

Just checking the code on the second bottle of fluid they gave me with the code on the Trajet Manual I downloaded & they appear to be different.

On the manual it specifys SAE J1703 (DOT3), but what they've given me this time is FBX100 (DOT4). Does anyone know if this is ok to use?

DOT is essentially a specification of performance- How high its boiling point is.

DOT3 was the highest standard of easily available brake fliud brake fluid available at the time.
DOT4 and 5 are the next steps up. Its ok to put a higher dot in a lower dot system but not the other way round as it downgrades the fluids ability.

jesse pinkman

Thank you very much Renegade Mechanic, Sound.

Renegade Mechanic

jesse pinkman wrote: »

Thank you very much Renegade Mechanic, Sound.

No worries, just saw the clutch part too. I probably would bleed it too but hydraulic clutches are a pig on the vast majority of cars I usually find so be prepared for stubborn trouble as most clutch pedals just.... go. Even if you keep the reservoir topped up, never allowing air to get in while you just flush old fluid out, the pedal still winds up on the floor as if youve just bled it with fresh air! Id get a helper, to keep a finger lightly On the bleed nipple to stop air going back up when you bring the pedal on each upwards stroke.

lomb

Get a Gunsons Pressure bleeder for the sake of 20e. Makes it all childs play and about 20 mins work on a driveway single handed. Pushing the brake pedal to the floor can damage seals causing permanent damage.

reflexsean

Will the pressure bleeder work on all car systems even with ABS as I need to change the fluid my Skoda Octavia 08 and 2 other skodas was thinking of buying one

Wheelnut

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

...DOT4 and 5 are the next steps up...

Be careful there, DOT 5 is a silicone brake fluid and not recommended for mixing with DOT 3 or 4, although it should not do any harm. Dot 5.1 is the next step up in the synthetic fluid pecking order.

CJhaughey

Wheelnut wrote: »

Be careful there, DOT 5 is a silicone brake fluid and not recommended for mixing with DOT 3 or 4, although it should not do any harm. Dot 5.1 is the next step up in the synthetic fluid pecking order.

Dot 5 is incompatible with any Mineral brake fluids, 3/4/5.1
They should not be mixed under any circumstance, at best they may Gel and reduce braking performance, worst case they can react and start to attack the rubber componentry in the brakes system.

Wheelnut

As I understand it the purpose of the DOT system in that ensure that mixing fluids does not cause any harm. I am aware that there is a large number of people who say that silicone and ordinary brake fluid must never be mixed and I would certainly not do it* deliberately, I don't think mixing would be the disaster that is suggested.

*Actually, I would never use silicone at all, at all!

CJhaughey

Wheelnut wrote: »

As I understand it the purpose of the DOT system in that ensure that mixing fluids does not cause any harm. I am aware that there is a large number of people who say that silicone and ordinary brake fluid must never be mixed and I would certainly not do it* deliberately, I don't think mixing would be the disaster that is suggested.

*Actually, I would never use silicone at all, at all!

I think the DOT has to do with the boiling point of the fluid, and reports suggest that mixing silicone and mineral can cause serious problems.
Silicone is usually used for applications where brake fluid could cause serious damage to paintwork, Harley motorcycles use it because lots of them have custom paint that costs a lot.
Other applications are vintage cars and stuff that sits around a lot without being used, Performance of DoT 5 is a less than mineral fluid but its a lot more benign.

jimgoose

CJhaughey wrote: »

I think the DOT has to do with the boiling point of the fluid, and reports suggest that mixing silicone and mineral can cause serious problems.
Silicone is usually used for applications where brake fluid could cause serious damage to paintwork, Harley motorcycles use it because lots of them have custom paint that costs a lot.
Other applications are vintage cars and stuff that sits around a lot without being used, Performance of DoT 5 is a less than mineral fluid but its a lot more benign.

DOT-5 silicone-based stuff repels moisture, unlike the other glycol based fluids, and is more stable throughout operating temperature range, although DOT-5.1 can largely match it in this regard. It was developed by the U.S. military and is in wide use by them, and also by Harley-Davidson 'cos they're American, God-dammit!!

Wheelnut

CJhaughey wrote: »

I think the DOT has to do with the boiling point of the fluid...

DOT stands for "Department of Transport" (the US one) because they draw up the specifications. Yes, the higher numbers generally have higher boiling points but as I said, I believe their system is designed so that mixing the fluids will not cause a disaster. Imagine a situation in which a vehicle could become lethal just by topping up with a fluid off the shelf which is also labelled as "brake fluid". Obviously such a risk would have to be minimised.

Silicone brake fluid is not hygroscopic which means that it does not absorb moisture, so its boiling point does not reduce with age and it does not need to be changed every two years. This has huge advantages for an army such as the US one who might leave vehicles parked up for years while they decide what country to "liberate" next.

However for the ordinary motorist there is a downside. If moisture gets into the brake system it will not be absorbed but will sit as a globule in the system. This can allow it to corrode the brake pipe from the inside, and even worse, that globule can boil at 100 deg C causing braking to be lost at relatively low temperatures.

Silicone brake fluid also has a tendency to entrain air which can give a slightly soft pedal, but its fans don't mind that believing that the advantages described in the second paragraph above outweigh the soft pedal.

Other than that it's grand stuff but I still would not use it.

lomb

reflexsean wrote: »

Will the pressure bleeder work on all car systems even with ABS as I need to change the fluid my Skoda Octavia 08 and 2 other skodas was thinking of buying one

Yes, you wont go wrong with it. Halfords have the Gunson one.

jca

lomb wrote: »

Yes, you wont go wrong with it. Halfords have the Gunson one.

Provided you can get a gunson cap to fit your brake reservoir, Tbh I never had any success with the easi-bleed. I could never manage to get a proper seal between the cap and the reservoir.:(

jca

jesse pinkman wrote: »

I don't think I even read the label Padraic, I'd never seen stuff like it though, florescent green pish.

It sounds like LHM fluid you were given. It's used mainly in Citroen cars as the fluid for the suspension,brakes and steering although VW, Audi and Skoda are using it for their power steering as well.

Wheelnut

@JCA: I agree about the Gunson, I can never get a good seal either.

Also agree that he has probably been given Citroen fluid.

I don't think that VAG use the Citroen stuff, it's green alright but not the same.