Holstein.. any place in suckler dams?

Bodacious

I know everyone want calves out of BF dams etc but ive ended up two heifers a red white head HF with (50% HE 28% HO).. I bought her in the middle of the night on the side of the road to suck a cow that had lost a calf.


Another one I bought looks for all intensive purposes a black lim but she (50% LM and 25% HO)


Im just wondering from those of you with experience of X breeding BF V HO will it make much difference to these two animals as sucklers.. bigger frame than a BF, Harder kept, less shape to offspring etc or will the X breeding take the undesirable characteristics of the Holstein?

Farrell

Ho are narrower, off-spring can inherent this, giving potential calving difficulty.

bogman_bass

HO is only making up1/4 of the heifer and will make up only 1/8 of the offspring so wouldnt get too wound up about it. If you didnt knbow the breeding would you say they looked good enough to bull?

Mad4simmental

You can't polish a sh!t no matter what you do. You don't want a ho anywhere near sucklers.

grazeaway

Could actually be a blessing in disguise. The HO breeding is small enough but it'll mean you will have loads of milk. I have looked to get my replacements from dairy cows. I have a couple of straight out of FR cows they all have loads of milk and every year I buy extra calves to put with them to double suckle. They have produced great calves for me over the years and have had plenty of muscle and shape from the bull. I look to keep my replacement heifers from these cows also.

As it is I have 3 Fr cows that will raise 2 calves each every year, 5 AAX out of dairy cows that will also raise 2 and a couple of LIMX that can do the same. I can get in another 10-12 calves a year and as long as I can get the cows to take to them there is very little extra work.

One of my friends bought a couple of FR/HO cows a few years ago for a few hundred each. He buys in calves and puts them with them. They are can raise 2-3 calves each.

Farmer Pudsey

I buy Friesian's Bulls and bullocks. Looking at ICBF at this stage nearly all Friesians have HO blood in them. I think it is virtually impossible to buy so called BF cattle now. I be more worried about her shape and the breeding of the sire.

If you exclude HO blood from suckler dam's at this stage you will have to go down the route of trying to breed from beef breeds with milky traits. As well if you breed these any heifer calves will be suitable to be retained as replacements. Calving difficulty is the only issue not just from the HO influence but also becaue most dairy farmers are using easy calving Beef bulls

Farrell

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I buy Friesian's Bulls and bullocks. Looking at ICBF at this stage nearly all Friesians have HO blood in them. I think it is virtually impossible to buy so called BF cattle now. I be more worried about her shape and the breeding of the sire.

If you exclude HO blood from suckler dam's at this stage you will have to go down the route of trying to breed from beef breeds with milky traits. As well if you breed these any heifer calves will be suitable to be retained as replacements. Calving difficulty is the only issue not just from the HO influence but also becaue most dairy farmers are using easy calving Beef bulls

Have some here with HO blood, lots of milk, could feed 2, but won't, get good enough prices for off-spring, but do better from pure suckler cows (no matter the cross)

Damo810

Teagasc done some research on this. Limo x hf had the heaviest weights pre weaning to slaughter but had slightly lower ko & confirmation. Limoxhf had higher production p/ha and higher gross margin (15%) than charolais x limo. Other cow types were limo x simmential, char x sim and limo x char. All were bulled with blues and blondes.

Look at the October beef issue on teagasc for more..
Heres the link - http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2013/2910/Beef_Newsletter_October2013.pdf

blue5000

Wouldn't worry about it, a jersey cross would be worse. Speaking of jerseys I see jersey101 has closed his account. Also there is only 10 cent a kg difference at factory between U and R so not much incentive to go producing U grade cattle unless you are exporting weanlings.

manjou

Have seen ho cows in mart and they are as big as any suckler and as heavy but just lacking in confirmation. HO x beef cross crossed with another beef bull would be a heavy weanling and keep growing.

Miname

I think your too worried bout what the paper says. There is an article somewhere on a farmer in the uk buys all limo off friesain be that ho or bf. he puts a char terminal bull on these from day one and says that there is no difference in the finished beast. Ive recently came to the conclusion that the only thing that pays is what the hand says on the scales. You wont get heavy weights cheapily off animals with no milk. confirmation is great but a bit of bf or ho is a blessing in any cow. They are picked up way handdier than some of the real fancy sucklers that have no milk.

rushvalley

Have to agree there is place for some HO or bf blood in suckler cows. One of the best sucklers we had here was a montbeliarde x bf. Not much to look at but she had the best calf every year (10 out of 12 were bulls!!) and reared a bought in calf alongside her own. I put it down to the fact that the calf was never stuck for milk. For replacements we buy in ch x fr or lm x fr lots of milk in them and this makes up for any loss in confirmation IMO.

Farrell

rushvalley wrote: »

Have to agree there is place for some HO or bf blood in suckler cows. One of the best sucklers we had here was a montbeliarde x bf. Not much to look at but she had the best calf every year (10 out of 12 were bulls!!) and reared a bought in calf alongside her own. I put it down to the fact that the calf was never stuck for milk. For replacements we buy in ch x fr or lm x fr lots of milk in them and this makes up for any loss in confirmation IMO.

HO cross can be good, but no point a cow with lots of milk, & your restricted with the bull you can use.
Fine lines

Milked out

From a dairy point of view with the importance of getting the cow up and running after calving generally a beef breed, other than aa or he, would only be put on cows that would be able for them so calving ability shouldn't be affected as much, of course that is a generalisation and to be sure a view of the dam would be needed really. used the bb bulls dbz and ftk here and there was no problem at calving, but they may only be small fries compared to the bulls ye would be using