Road signs: The use and abuse of brackets

Fred Swanson

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Carawaystick

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Are they not Parentheses? (sp?)

Surely Dublin is the Biggest offender now, as all the national routes stop at the M50, outside Dublin city....

Arklow and Wicklow are similar, not reached by the N11.

Colm R

In Cork, Waterford and Galway there is no brackets for Dublin.

The way i see it, brackets are only necessary if you have to leave a route before a route has finished.

In the case of Rosslare, brackets are not necessary as you need to travel to the end of the N11 rather than leave it before it finishes.

loyatemu

they seem to be used inconsistently - Wicklow used to always be in brackets because the N11 didn't actually go through the town, unlike Bray and Arklow. But the M11 doesn't go through any towns now yet they still use the brackets for Wicklow.

Fred Swanson

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loyatemu

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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so we're basing roadsigns on where the old road used to go?

LXFlyer

loyatemu wrote: »

so we're basing roadsigns on where the old road used to go?

No. The brackets are there because you still have to leave the M11 to get to Wicklow town. You have to travel over 4km along the R772 and R750 from the far side of Rathnew.

loyatemu

you have to leave the M11 to get to anywhere (other than Kilmac) - it's 3km into Gorey, probably similar at Arklow. Seems fairly arbitrary to me.

Conway635

Brackets are usually necessary to hold the sign to the pole . . .

C635

icdg

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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The reason for this, for what its worth, is that there's an instruction in the TSM (page 2/17) that Rosslare is to be used as the terminal destination southbound from J16 (Wicklow) onwards. Prior to that Wexford is the destination. There are a couple of odd rules like this on that page - the most well known is that Cavan is allowed to be signed as the terminal destination for the N3 northbound for most of its distance, notwithstanding the fact that it actually ends at Ballyshannon.

Fred Swanson

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loyatemu

do other countries use brackets? don't recall seeing them in France, where the motorway signage is better and more consistent than here.

Five Lamps

Carawaystick wrote: »

Surely Dublin is the Biggest offender now, as all the national routes stop at the M50, outside Dublin city....

.

Who came up with that silly idea? And if they want to stick with it, why not sign it properly. Take the N3 - you come to the M50 junction, the signage changes to R (still N on the tarmac) and then then you get onto the Navan Road it's N3 all the way to the city.

Is route numbering the remit of the NRA? The organisation who can't do road signs. You'll see some of their fantastic signage at the N3/M50 junction.

markpb

Five Lamps wrote: »

Who came up with that silly idea?

DCC and presumably the other GDA authorities did. It gives them control and responsibility for the roads in the city instead of it being a mix onetween the local authorities and NRA. It's hardly sensible to suggest that O'Connell St is the N1 and Leeson at is the N11 which is the way it was until a few years ago.

Anyway the M50 is not the boundary for Dublin so the N roads do still go to Dublin, they just don't penetrate as far as they used to.

Fred Swanson

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icdg

Five Lamps wrote: »

Who came up with that silly idea? And if they want to stick with it, why not sign it properly. Take the N3 - you come to the M50 junction, the signage changes to R (still N on the tarmac) and then then you get onto the Navan Road it's N3 all the way to the city.

Is route numbering the remit of the NRA? The organisation who can't do road signs. You'll see some of their fantastic signage at the N3/M50 junction.

Road numbering is the Ministers responsibility, at least nominally. The reason for the current mess is a change which occurred in 2012 in which almost all the national primary roads inside the M50 were reclassified as regional roads. Signage wasn't updated for ages and is only now (slowly) being changed. The Lucan Road is the same, some signage inside the M50 reads R148 and some reads N4. Perhaps unsurprisingly they've been very slow to do the outbound carriageway though the inbound ones were changed about three months ago.

loyatemu wrote: »

do other countries use brackets? don't recall seeing them in France, where the motorway signage is better and more consistent than here.

The UK does, which shouldn't be surprising, since our system of directional signage was originally a wholesale import of the UK system but bilingual with the English names in ALL CAPS. Of course, its diverged significantly now, particularly since 2005 with the new motorway/HQDC signage, but its origins are still quite obvious. There's talk of a wholesale change that's being largely pushed by Conradh na Gaelige and Varadker has agreed to a trial but dunno if it will ever go beyond that.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Yes, signs must include Rosslare from south of Carlow onwards. Note though that the rules for national secondary roads are different and intermediate destinations (Carlow in the N80s case) should be signed instead of the terminal (Enniscorthy) where applicable.

markpb wrote: »

DCC and presumably the other GDA authorities did. .

DCC were the main campaigners for the change, on the basis that they didn't have control over O'Connell Street. The primary motivation apparently was to lower the speed limits on certain city streets which were part of N-roads and to which the NRA was objecting to.